Putting education before starting a family

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Hi Everyone,

I was at bible study and the topic of having children was the theme that day. And the teacher dicussed infertility being on the rise. Now, I think I must have misunderstood something and I am hoping people can clarify

The teacher said that artifical birth control is one thing that makes people infertile. They don’t realize it until they have try to have kids. Then she went on to say that since people are waiting to extablish their careers first, women are older when they try to have children and thus are not as fertile

One woman said (and the group agreed) that a woman’s most fertile years are between 18 and 25. Not being a doctor, I wouldn’t know. Then the topic turned to people are selfish for wanting a career and the big house first. So I said ‘But most Catholic mom’s now adays would love for their daughter’s to be educated and most people don’t finish university until they are at least 22’ To which one man said ‘so’

I left there with the impression that it is selfish for a woman to get an education. I doubt that is what the teacher was saying because she has a master’s. So I guess my question is, if a woman is willing to remain single and chaste until her education is finished, would God not understand that?

If anyone could please clarify what the teacher’s point was, please do

CM
 
Not everyone is meant for college, though. You have to discern your path, which includes your education. A lot of people push for their kids to go through college. This is good, but it’s not a good fit for everyone. Some people are just better doing other jobs. 🤷

As far as careers, some people are selfish. It really depends on God’s vocation for you.
 
I don’t know what exactly your teacher meant, you’d have to ask. But the Church does not require people to get married. They require that people are chaste as appropriate for their station in life. In other words, if they are single, they are to be celibate.

There is nothing wrong with waiting until one’s education is complete before starting a family. There is no Church teaching that says this is contrary to living in communion with the Church. What is required is that the person be chaste along the way.
 
I think they were referring to people who get married and then put off children in order to secure material gains that aren’t necessary in order to establish support of their family. Even if using NFP, the Church teache that married couples need to consider whether their reasons for delaying childbearing is compelling.

There is no Church teaching (and as far as I know, never has been) that says that Catholics need to pursue marriage sooner rather than later so that they may produce as many children as their bodies are capable of producing. Rather, the teaching is that those who marry are to be open to children, and that abstinence is to be used for the purpose of delaying children only for compelling reasons. There may be an issue with a single person that recommends that they seriously look for a spouse sooner rather than later, such as a need to find a state in life in which one can more easily live in chastity, but that is not the same thing. There are also selfish reasons for avoiding marriage, such as wanting to have freedom to do what one likes, rather than remaining single so as to have the freedom to serve the Lord without distraction. I do not mean that, either. I mean that there isn’t some certain age at which a good Catholic has to either look to find a spouse or a else find a monastery.

Having said that, I think she may also have been saying that people do not realize that their choices have consequences. They wait until later in life to marry (which is morally OK in itself), but then are dismayed to find that children do not come along to any couple open to have them. She may have been saying that this is information that ought to be more widely impressed upon people, so that they can avoid making an uninformed decision, rather than spreading the widespread misconception that medical science can provide you a pregnancy at any time you come asking. People who hope to become parents put off childbearing at their peril.

Excepting that women who go onto the Pill will of course find themselves older when they stop taking it, there is no evidence that oral contraceptives reduce fertility. When corrected for age, that effect has not been demonstrated, and there is a lot of data. Again, it is that people think that they can take their fertility and its longevity for granted. It does not work that way. Aging reduces fertility, and the drop-off after age 25 is far from negligible!

If you want to have children, your chances are better when you are younger. If you want to get married, you should not assume that finding a suitable spouse automatically gets easier as you age, either. These things ought to be fairly expected to take some time, and the opportunity to obtain them cannot be taken for granted. It doesn’t mean it is a sin to put off looking to marry and have children. It is just something for both men and women to take into consideration when making life decisions, so that the consequences of their decision don’t take them by surprise.
 
The world needs eggheads too. On a more serious note, though, I believe the teacher mentioned college in factual terms. Like EasterJoy says, choices have consequences, and nature won’t wait in order to give grads an equal opportunity.

From what I’ve read, a woman’s peak fertility hits around 26 and peak interest in sex at 24 or the other way round (either way around the time people leave grad school), while for a man, curiously, that was 19 and 20 (though I again don’t remember which age was which). Things are basically different from what they used to be, though maybe not for men. While very few went to university, there was plenty of master-apprentice style learning and a lot had to be completed (sometimes taking long years) before a man was capable of supporting a family. The marrying age for men, barring some rich folks or at least those with some inheritance ensured, tended to be 30 or 35 or something like that. Almost twice the optimal age. Nowadays part of that is also becoming women’s fate.

I don’t believe anyone would seriously claim that it’d be selfish for a woman not to interrupt her education to launch a full-on search for a husband, any husband actually, before she returns to her education… or not. Or even rush the choice at any stage. Actually, rushing the choice is a poor idea from the point of view of ensuring a good father and a good environment for the children.

I’m suffering from a notable absence of wit today but I might post again later if I come up with anything worth saying. 😛
 
EVERY decision needs to be discerned prayerfully. God often calls different people in different ways. There is no singular path that is right for everyone.
We are all different “parts” of the body of Christ, and we all have very unique roles.
We need good Catholic women in the medical industry.
We need good Catholic women at home raising children.
We need good Catholic women in everything in-between.
ALL can be accomplished in a prayerful and moral way.

It IS possible to have a family AND a career… some are called to this, others are not. No one path is “better” than another… they’re just different.

As far as fertility is concerned, yes artificial birth control has caused a multitude of medical issues for many women… this is one reason we should take pause at it’s use - not to mention the obvious moral issues.

We need to start reminding women that this isn’t an “either/or” decision. It’s a unique decision that each women needs to prayerfully make for herself.
 
Em_in_FL said:
EVERY decision needs to be discerned prayerfully. God often calls different people in different ways. There is no singular path that is right for everyone.
We are all different “parts” of the body of Christ, and we all have very unique roles.
We need good Catholic women in the medical industry.
We need good Catholic women at home raising children.
We need good Catholic women in everything in-between.
ALL can be accomplished in a prayerful and moral way.

It IS possible to have a family AND a career… some are called to this, others are not. No one path is “better” than another… they’re just different.

As far as fertility is concerned, yes artificial birth control has caused a multitude of medical issues for many women… this is one reason we should take pause at it’s use - not to mention the obvious moral issues.

We need to start reminding women that this isn’t an “either/or” decision. It’s a unique decision that each women needs to prayerfully make for herself.
Click to expand...
👍
 
Em_in_FL said:
As far as fertility is concerned, yes artificial birth control has caused a multitude of medical issues for many women… this is one reason we should take pause at it’s use - not to mention the obvious moral issues.
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Do not get me wrong. Oral hormone therapy is morally permissible only when infertility is an unintended side effect of its use in the treatment of another health issue. Moreover, even if that is ignored, hormones are very powerful medications with systemic effects, and should not be used lightly. Like many other medications, physician can sometimes rush too quickly to prescribe them, too.

I simply mean to say that the charge that these medications statistically decrease fertility in women who used them in the past compared to women who did not use them does not have evidence to back it up. Rather, fertility can be expected to drop off significantly with age in those who put off childbearing by any means and for any reason, even when NFP is used, and for moral reasons, or when people delay childbearing by delaying marriage and remaining chaste.
 
Em_in_FL said:
EVERY decision needs to be discerned prayerfully. God often calls different people in different ways. There is no singular path that is right for everyone.
We are all different “parts” of the body of Christ, and we all have very unique roles.
We need good Catholic women in the medical industry.
We need good Catholic women at home raising children.
We need good Catholic women in everything in-between.
ALL can be accomplished in a prayerful and moral way.

It IS possible to have a family AND a career… some are called to this, others are not. No one path is “better” than another… they’re just different…
Click to expand...
Yes. Even if one path were better than another, you must discern your path, not the “ideal” meant for someone else. That is why discernment is necessary!
 
Seems like a false dilemma to me.

How many people meet “the one” at 18 (or younger) these days? If anything, higher education provides young Catholics an opportunity to meet potential spouses. It wasn’t until university that I met gals my age who actually practiced their faith.
 
Honestly?

I think she brushed that stroke with too broad a brush.

I think a lot of women like myself, who did end up batteling infertility, went on the pill in the first place BECAUSE my body was not acting appropriate at age 18 in the first place. Since I wasn’t married and trying to get PG, no one bothered testing to see that I was already set up for infertility issues. I had fibroids, PCOS, no/very low progesterone (and then finally the feritility issue was with DH (who has never been on hormones 😉 But is a TC survivor. all finally REALLY treated when I was trying to get PG. Those problems didn’t just materialize. I was treated for those problems at age 18, without knowing what was going on.

Are there better ways to treat these TODAY? IMO, yes. But I’m willing to work through things. I don’t have a regular job where bleeding out at work is a problem… I can just lay faint on the couch, call DH and see that he gets home EARLY!

If I was asked by any female what I would do today? I’d tell her to get herself educated!!! Learn as many reasons as to WHY these things happen and all the alternatives to treatment. Opting for the least invasive first…

All that said, I’ve yet to find a place in the bible where God instructs women to remain uneducated and unable to care for their family if they HAVE to. And today, you most often need an education if you HAVE to be the bread winner. Life throws curveballs. NOTHING says husbands will be able to provide without failure. Food has to hit the table in an ethical manner. I think being able to earn $$ for it is ideal.
 
Education is far more than a receipt that shows you put in 4 years at uni.
 
DihydrogenOxide said:
Not everyone is meant for college, though. You have to discern your path, which includes your education. A lot of people push for their kids to go through college. This is good, but it’s not a good fit for everyone. Some people are just better doing other jobs. 🤷

As far as careers, some people are selfish. It really depends on God’s vocation for you.
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👍

If a formal, 4 year Bachelor Degree is not to one’s liking, I do recommend at least a Community College for an Associate Degree in one’s chosen career vocation (if there isn’t a formal apprenticeship for it) for both genders. It’s amazing what you can do with a 2-year degree in terms of health care professions (which are great for women that desire to be “at-home” moms since health care is generally 24/7 and you can pick up a weekend or night shift to help with the family’s bills when needed).
 
Selfish? Most people get an education so they can support their family! As my grandma used to say, “Men die, but a degree is forever.” She should know. Her husband died and left her with four kids to feed on a waitress’ salary.
 
I’m currently an undergrad. I want at least a master’s degree before I settle down and have kids. I agree that women should make sure that, even if they are planning to stay at home, they sure have a degree/marketable skill should they ever need to support themselves. My great-grandmother lost her husband, but still had nine children to support. She became a midwife. I’m sure she would have liked to have had the training behind her before she lost her husband.

It is not selfish for a women to put off having children. People do not exist purely to reproduce. As mentioned above, we need women who are SAHMs, doctors, and everything in between. Settling down and having kids is nice, but by no means is it required.
 
cmscms said:
Hi Everyone,

I was at bible study and the topic of having children was the theme that day. And the teacher dicussed infertility being on the rise. Now, I think I must have misunderstood something and I am hoping people can clarify

The teacher said that artifical birth control is one thing that makes people infertile. They don’t realize it until they have try to have kids. Then she went on to say that since people are waiting to extablish their careers first, women are older when they try to have children and thus are not as fertile

One woman said (and the group agreed) that a woman’s most fertile years are between 18 and 25. Not being a doctor, I wouldn’t know. Then the topic turned to people are selfish for wanting a career and the big house first. So I said ‘But most Catholic mom’s now adays would love for their daughter’s to be educated and most people don’t finish university until they are at least 22’ To which one man said ‘so’

I left there with the impression that it is selfish for a woman to get an education. I doubt that is what the teacher was saying because she has a master’s. So I guess my question is, if a woman is willing to remain single and chaste until her education is finished, would God not understand that?
If anyone could please clarify what the teacher’s point was, please do

CM
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Theat’s exactly what St. Gianna Molla did, she became a doctor and then met her husband and had children.
 
Just wanted to say that there is no reason that a mother can’t go back to school and earn a degree if she has the support of her husband and family!

Case-in-point…me! 😃

I worked as an EMT for quite some time…and never went to college. I’ve met my Fiance and I’m going to be a mommy soon (converted to Catholicism recently, attending RCIA…not getting into details) and I plan on earning my nursing degree within the next 3 years.

Will it be hard? Of course it will, but I have the full support of my Fiance alone with my family and his family.
 
Kelfa28 said:
Just wanted to say that there is no reason that a mother can’t go back to school and earn a degree if she has the support of her husband and family!

Case-in-point…me! 😃

I worked as an EMT for quite some time…and never went to college. I’ve met my Fiance and I’m going to be a mommy soon (converted to Catholicism recently, attending RCIA…not getting into details) and I plan on earning my nursing degree within the next 3 years.

Will it be hard? Of course it will, but I have the full support of my Fiance alone with my family and his family.
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I think what you are doing is great ! And I am happy your fiancee supports you. However, I agree with the fact you need the support of husband and family and that is not easy to come by. I can think of a few men that made me getting my education a LOT harder. Praise the Lord for giving me the strenght to get it anyway

CM
 
Education really is vital in this day and age. Now, that doesn’t mean every woman has to do a PhD or something. Education can be something that just improves your mind as well as your job prospects, as others have said, somethign could crop up that requires the woman to become the bread winner.

I also think its important because as a mother a woman will be one of the first two teachers her children have. The next generation’s education will be vital, and they need a good solid grounding in both faith and morals at home, and also, witness a drive to improve themselves as their mother and father have done.

Now, where does that leave finding a husband? Who says you can do both, uni/college/whatever and find a husband? And say you do find the right guy, you don’t have to marry him right away and drop your hopes and dreams down the toilet. You can just wait to marry until you’ve finished your degree. Chances are you’ll be done at uni by at 25.

Me, I’m 30 and single and have never met an approrpriate man to marry. I have a bachelors and my boss wants me to do my post grad deploma, and I’d like to do my masters if I don’t get a man any time soon. I’m also starting a bachelor of theology via correspondance in the next month. Would I throw all that away should I find a guy to marry? Of course not, why? Cos you can do both. That’s why. The guy should love you enough to accept your education process, marry when you’re finished and have kids so they don’t interfer with your classes if that’s the concern. If he can’t wait, let him go. If you can’t wait, then you can always pick up study when you’re 50.

And any man who doesn’t want you educated, well, that to me is a huge red flag.
 
cmscms said:
Hi I left there with the impression that it is selfish for a woman to get an education. I doubt that is what the teacher was saying because she has a master’s. So I guess my question is, if a woman is willing to remain single and chaste until her education is finished, would God not understand that?

If anyone could please clarify what the teacher’s point was, please do

CM
Click to expand...
I don’t understand, from the conversation you reported, why you got this impression, because it sounds like the teacher was relating scientific and medical facts, not militating against education for women. she must have said something else you have not reported to give that impression. yes, it is a fact that infertility is on the rise for many reasons, which have nothing to do with education per se. The package insert for ABC pills warns that there may be delay in return of fertility it is one of the known side effects. Infertility is also on the rise due to STDs which are epidemic. Neither of these has to do with education per se.

The issue seems to be not education, but whether it is natural and desireable for a woman to remain chaste until she marries and has children. The answer is always yes, because any other alternative negates her own self respect and value as a person, subjects her to domination to the man or men with whom she has uncommitted relationships, and leaves her vulnerable to the massive side effects of both ABC and STDs. Ovarian cancer was very rare among young women in my youth and now is one of the fastest growing in that group and the biggest risk factor is multiple sex partners, or sex with men who have had multiple partners. That is only one example.

If I am reading your question wrong, forgive me, but I don’t see that the teacher’s remarks indicate she is against higher education for women, or delaying marriage in order to get that education and start a career.
 
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