Pyx question

[Dodge_pursuit]

I have seen the regulations regarding sacred vessels being made of a precious metal, or at least having precious metal inside where they will contact the sacred elements.

I’m just a bit confused about a pyx I looked at.

My (only) pyx is gold. It is shiny, as one would expect, inside and out. But the one I looked at is a dull, gold-ish colored metal. It doesn’t say what it’s made of. It’s on the rack in a well known Catholic gift and church supply shop. The reason I’m looking at it is because it’s larger than my other one and I’m starting to think this would be very useful when visiting nursing homes.

Should I trust that a reputable pyx maker uses the right materials and not worry about it? Perhaps I should ask one of our priests?

Thanks and have a blessed day!

 

[Kielbasi]

you can test for gold content with vinegar, which does not affect real gold.

Do you really know enough about pyx manufacturers to know who is reputable and whether or not the piece that you are looking at is actually the work of the folks whose name appears on it?

Gold is pretty expensive, sounds like it would be a lot of money to risk on something you aren’t sure of. Priests aren’t necessarily experts in metallurgy, so how would they know? You’d do better to ask one of your jewelers or pawn brokers.

 

[Tarpeian_Rock]

In catalogs I see many small pyx for sale at quite reasonable prices – which, given the cost of gold today, cause me to wonder if their interiors are even gold-plated. While clearly gold or silver is ideal, are we sure that the same “sacred vessel” requirements apply to pyx as they do to chalices and ciboria? Some of the less-expensive pyx look like highly-polished brass.

 

[Aelred_Minor]

Sounds like it could be brass or something like that.

Obviously you don’t want to try vinegar if you don’t own the thing.

Could you trust the shop owner to tell you the truth if you just ask him/her what metal it is made of?

 

[Aelred_Minor]

In catalogs I see many small pyx for sale at quite reasonable prices – which, given the cost of gold today, cause me to wonder if their interiors are even gold-plated. While clearly gold or silver is ideal, are we sure that the same “sacred vessel” requirements apply to pyx as they do to chalices and ciboria? Some of the less-expensive pyx look like highly-polished brass.

Good point, though going by the “spirit of the law” I would want to apply the same standards to anything used to hold the Eucharist.

 

[Gorgias]

Good point, though going by the “spirit of the law” I would want to apply the same standards to anything used to hold the Eucharist.

From the GIRM:

1. Among the requisites for the celebration of Mass, the sacred vessels are held in special honor, and among these especially the chalice and paten, in which the bread and wine are offered and consecrated and from which they are consumed.

1. Sacred vessels should be made from precious metal. If they are made from metal that rusts or from a metal less precious than gold, they should generally be gilded on the inside.

1. In the Dioceses of the United States of America, sacred vessels may also be made from other solid materials which in the common estimation in each region are considered precious or noble, for example, ebony or other harder woods, provided that such materials are suitable for sacred use. In this case, preference is always to be given to materials that do not easily break or deteriorate. This applies to all vessels that are intended to hold the hosts, such as the paten, the ciborium, the pyx, the monstrance, and others of this kind.

(Emphases mine.)

So… the chalice and paten are held to an especially high standard (but the pyx doesn’t, necessarily). And, then, if made from metal, then only ‘generally’ should be gilded (not necessarily). Finally, the pyx may be made from one of these other solid materials…

 

[Aelred_Minor]

From the GIRM:

(Emphases mine.)

So… the chalice and paten are held to an especially high standard (but the pyx doesn’t, necessarily). And, then, if made from metal, then only ‘generally’ should be gilded (not necessarily). Finally, the pyx may be made from one of these other solid materials…

But as your quote clearly shows the pyx does count as one of those sacred vessels which should be made of precious metal or another substance which “in the common estimation” is considered “precious or noble”. Ebony is considered precious or noble in American estimation. Brass generally is not, in my opinion. Also I would propose that you would need an exceptional situation to justify making an exception to the general rule of gilding the inside of anything made from a corrodible metal.

 

[andrewstx]

Solid gold is expensive, but electroplate is amazingly cheap. I am sure the inexpensive pyxes are electroplated with gold.

 

[malphono]

Other than water for washing, a pyx never comes in contact with liquid (or at least it shouldn’t). It’s also not used as a vessel for the Sacred Species for extended periods of time (or at least it shouldn’t be). As long as it has a smooth, polished interior surface, whether gold-plate or otherwise, that can be easily rinsed and wiped clean, it should be fine.

 

[janeway529]

Can a pyx be made of pewter (that looks like silver)?

 

[malphono]

Can a pyx be made of pewter (that looks like silver)?

Pewter is kind of odd, in that it usually doesn’t have all that smooth a surface. Very often it’s a pitted surface, and that could be a problem. Now, if the interior were at least electroplated with gold or silver, it should be OK.

 

[Gorgias]

But as your quote clearly shows the pyx does count as one of those sacred vessels which should be made of precious metal or another substance which “in the common estimation” is considered “precious or noble”. Ebony is considered precious or noble in American estimation. Brass generally is not, in my opinion. Also I would propose that you would need an exceptional situation to justify making an exception to the general rule of gilding the inside of anything made from a corrodible metal.

Two thoughts: first, although brass is not ‘noble’ “in your opinion”, does that mean that it is therefore not legitimately able to be used as a pyx? I would argue ‘no.’ Note, too, that the GIRM talks about metals that rust as being in this category: in other words, there are metals that are “precious or noble” which rust. Brass, I would argue, is not less ‘noble’ than iron.

Second, your assertion of the “need (of) an exceptional situation to justify making an exception to the general rule of gilding” is a burden that the applicable standards do not place upon us. Again, it may be your opinion that an “exceptional situation” is necessary, but that isn’t what the texts state.

 

[Gorgias]

Can a pyx be made of pewter (that looks like silver)?

You’re asking whether there are pyxes that are completely made of pewter? I’ve seen many that have lids that have pewter tops, but none that are totally made of pewter.

 

[Aelred_Minor]

Two thoughts: first, although brass is not ‘noble’ “in your opinion”, does that mean that it is therefore not legitimately able to be used as a pyx? I would argue ‘no.’ Note, too, that the GIRM talks about metals that rust as being in this category: in other words, there are metals that are “precious or noble” which rust. Brass, I would argue, is not less ‘noble’ than iron.

Second, your assertion of the “need (of) an exceptional situation to justify making an exception to the general rule of gilding” is a burden that the applicable standards do not place upon us. Again, it may be your opinion that an “exceptional situation” is necessary, but that isn’t what the texts state.

About brass, what the rules say is that the substance has to be precious or noble in the common estimation of the region. The region here is the United States, and I am an American. My personal opinion that brass (like iron) is not a precious or noble substance in our culture is my own, but if enough of my fellow Americans agree with me it would make brass an inappropriate metal for this use. Silver by contrast is a precious metal that tarnishes. Technically this tarnishing is not rust, but possibly the language here is not meant to be taken in such a scientifically literal manner. Same story with bronze and copper, which are less noble but not as clearly so as brass.

Regarding gilding, yes this is my personal opinion, but it is based in the text and not just in what I personally would like to see done. The rule uses the word “generally” for this. The fact that the wording anticipates that there may be situations where this gilding is not possible or appropriate should not, in my opinion, be taken as an excuse to dispense with the general rule whenever one feels like it.

 

[janeway529]

You’re asking whether there are pyxes that are completely made of pewter? I’ve seen many that have lids that have pewter tops, but none that are totally made of pewter.

Yes, that is what I was asking. I’ve seen pewter chalices (with a satin finish) used, so I assumed that pewter could be also used in the creation of a pyx.