"Q. Can people really go to Hell?" A Response to This Question from a Priest

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goout said:
What do you mean that hell is “justifiable”.
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My feeling is that Hell by default is not justifiable (eternal punishment for finite crime) so the burden to proof to explain that it is lies with those making the claim. I do not find the explanations satisfying, including the free will assertion.
goout said:
Choices and actions have real consequences . God does not have to invent consequences by arbitrary notions of “justice”. We choose them.
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Yes they do, in the here and now. No need for those to be further punished, they already received their punishment.
goout said:
Those are all chosen freely, just like rejection, isolation, anger, despair.
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I do not believe people choose these things, or least least certainly not entirely. If I get angry it is because something caused me to be. I can somewhat control how I react to that anger, but there again, that is relative. Some people naturally are more skilled or inclined to suppress it than others.
 
Matthew : 7 : 21 - Not all who say to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of heaven…

If everyone goes to heaven then Jesus lied. Feel free to take that position. I certainly will not.
 
laylow said:
That is a false dilemma or false dichotomy argument.
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No, it isn’t. There actually are just two choices. Either Jesus was telling the truth and not everyone goes to heaven or Jesus lied and everyone does go to heaven. It is repeatedly stated throughout the Bible that not everyone will be saved.
 
Sbee0 said:
I’m sure you know that’s not necessarily true.
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They may not receive a full or justified punishment, but there are always consequences.

Even so, many people suffer unjustly through disease, famine, natural disasters, etc. but where is the retribution for that?

I’m cool with everything being made even, however I see in no way that the explanations cover all the scenarios well.
 
Hey no need to worry about it then unless you get there. You have successfully reasoned your way out of Christian heaven and hell. Shouldn’t you be rejoicing in your own human reasoning? Conversation is over right. You’ve won your reward to do whatever you please. I’ll kindly refrain from following you but I’m a slave to the God you reason away and I’m very content to be.

I don’t find it an issue to give up the things you care about being able to have so your reasoning can’t convince me. I’m very happy to lose the freedom you seek. That’s just me though. That is however the chasm between our reasoning. I don’t mind the loss compared to what I gain. You mind the loss because you can not find any valuable gain.

Perhaps we can part as friends in knowing we understand each other. Let time reveal who has made the error. Though if you are right I probably won’t be able to know it and if I am right you’ll have far too much time to mourn it.
 
This is Catholic answers forum and this is not the “non-Catholic” section. Those arguments are irrelevant and most of them are heretical.

And again, the teaching that not all will be saved is continuous throughout the Bible. A mistranslation on that scale would be far fetched.
 
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Bushum said:
This is Catholic answers forum and this is not the “non-Catholic” section. Those arguments are irrelevant and most of them are heretical.

And again, the teaching that not all will be saved is continuous throughout the Bible. A mistranslation on that scale would be far fetched.
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None of that changes the fact that it is a false dilemma tactic.If someone is Catholic, why would they be arguing against Church teaching?
 
Accuse me of every logical fallacy there is, it doesn’t make it true. As a Catholic, which I assume you are unless you state otherwise (and since you have hidden your profile 🤔), there are two choices because it is assumed you know your scenarios are against church teaching therefore cannot be true.
 
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As a Catholic who at least accepts the possibility of hell, I agree that this article wasn’t very innovative nor was it impressive. It doesn’t address some of the major issues, like why the resurrected body in hell should have to suffer physical torments for all eternity.

And it doesn’t even get close to addressing the issue of the fact that sins are often due to ignorance and passion.
 
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No one, not even the skeptic, should argue against the possibility of hell if someone indeed had full knowledge and free consent of the will.

That is the definition of mortal sin,

But the issue, I think, is: Can anyone on Earth even have full knowledge and free consent of the will to the extent of choosing hell for all eternity? It seems unlikely.
 
Except…

I was raised by liberal agnostics and somehow ended by an integralist, Latin mass going Roman Catholic who is going to spiritual direction every other week or so. I believe Christ rose from the dead and that the Eucharist is truly the body and blood of Christ.

Just one thing. I believe God saves us all in the end. So, no. I’m not happy going my own way. Why? Because inspite of all of my pretentiousness and sin I want others to know what I realized: God loves you. Love without qualifications. Real love, not the conditional love of a judge.

And that is why I’m so annoying. Because I want me from so many years ago to know: yes God actually loves you.
 
laylow said:
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goout:
What exactly do you mean “justifiable”?
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Infinite punishment for a finite crime goes against the very definition of justice.
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Not that I agree with it (I don’t) but capital punishment seems to me like an example of an infinite punishment…
 
laylow said:
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Sbee0:
I’m sure you know that’s not necessarily true.
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They may not receive a full or justified punishment, but there are always consequences.

Even so, many people suffer unjustly through disease, famine, natural disasters, etc. but where is the retribution for that?

I’m cool with everything being made even, however I see in no way that the explanations cover all the scenarios well.
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If I decide I don’t want to give to the poor because I’m selfish- or if I lie and nobody finds out- nobody’s the wiser and there are no consequences to me…
 
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laylow said:
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goout:
What exactly do you mean “justifiable”?
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Infinite punishment for a finite crime goes against the very definition of justice.
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So if you choose to break off a relationship with someone and suffer consequences, that has to be justified?
If you drive your car off the road, the crash needs to be justified?

I still have the question: what do you mean by “justified”? Do you mean that consequences are enforced against our will?
 
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Hell is an awful possibility of human freedom because the possibility of eternal relationship with a loving God is so unbelievably good.

I like chocolate ice cream, but going without it is not going to kill me. They thought of it is “meh”.
I love my wife a lot, and not having her around is an almost unthinkable void of sadness.

Translate this analogy to a relationship with the God of the universe, and to the corresponding lack of it.
 
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