Q for Christians: Why were the Magi looking for Jesus?

[SedesDomi]

Astrology is more a part of esoteric Judaism (Kabbalah):

Masters in Astrology.

Jewish cosmology in the Middle Ages, therefore, accords to Astrology a, distinct place, as may be learned from the “Sefer Yeẓirah,” v. 4, vi. 2-4, where the zodiac and the dragon as “the king” are represented as cosmic factors; and from the astrological Baraita of Samuel, belonging to the beginning of the ninth century (Zunz, in Steinschneider, “Hebr. Bibl.” 1862, pp. 15 et seq.). Afterward, the Cabala, in the Zohar and in the Book of Raziel, exhibits a thorough knowledge of Astrology; and liturgical poetry, through Kalir and Ibn Gabirol (“Keter Malkut”), gives it recognition (S. Sachs, “Ha-Yonah,” i. 59-93; M. Sachs, “Die Religiöse Poesie,” 1845, p. 250). Indeed, in the eighth and ninth centuries, Jews were the foremost masters in Astrology. Jacob ibn Tarik, called by Ibn Ezra an astrological authority, is recorded by the same writer as having imported the astronomical tables of the Hindus to Bagdad under Almanṣur in 777 (“Z. D. M. G.” xxiv. 332-354). His contemporary was Mashallah, the famous court astrologer of Almanṣur and Mamun (about 800), some of whose works Ibn Ezra translated from the Arabic into Hebrew (Steinschneider, “Hebr. Uebers.” pp. 599-603). Another Jewish astrologer of note was Sahl b. Bishr al-Israeli in 820, called also Rabban al-Ṭabari, “rabbi of Tabaristan,” whose astrological works still exist partly in the original, and were translated into Hebrew and Latin (ib. pp. 603-607; idem, in “Jew. Quart. Rev.” xiii. 108-109). Ibn Ezra mentions also as the greatest Jewish astrologer Andruzagar ben Zadi Faruk, probably a Persian (Steinschneider, in “Monatsschrift.” 1884, p. 479; idem, “Hebr. Uebers.” p. 854, note 54b). As a matter of fact, most of the works on Astrology composed by Mohammedan scholars—those ascribed to Ptolemy, and those of Abu Maashar, Al-Kabiṣi, and Abu al-Rijal—were translated by Jews into Hebrew and partly into Spanish (Steinschneider, “Hebr. Uebers.” pp. 525-578), or they composed compendiums of such, writing under their own names as “Astrologers.”

 

[Lilyflower]

Yes, also the other way around, but doesn’t seem as though it works that way now does it?

The Child has become greater than its father. So now the Child has a duty of care to protect the father and not the other way round.

Blessings and peace

 

[Eden]

Astrology is more a part of esoteric Judaism (Kabbalah):

That’s very interesting. I decided to explore this a little more and I found this article, “Ask Rabbi Simmons: What Is the Jewish View of Astrology?”:

In Genesis 1:14 it says, “God said, ‘There shall be lights in the heavenly sky to divide between day and night. They shall serve as omens and define festivals, days and years.’” Early commentaries say that “omens” refers to how the stars and planets affect out lives. Therefore, based on the necessity for fixing the Hebrew calendar, and an understanding that stars and planets affect events it is clear that early wise men had an astrological outlook.

judaism.about.com/library/3_askrabbi_o/bl_simmons_astrology.htm

 

[Cathdefender]

The Child has become greater than its father. So now the Child has a duty of care to protect the father and not the other way round.

Blessings and peace

 

[abucs]

Just now reading a lot of the letters one, two and three generations after the apostles.

I’m struck by how Jewish they are and how accepting of Jesus as the incarnation of God.

In a time of widespread killing of Christians by Romans and fellow Jews i am struck by how sensible, level headed, logical and full of love these letters are.

They seem extremely sure of doctrines such as incarnation, Jewish salvation story, redemption through Christ and being put right with God through a life lived in a spiritual connection with Jesus.

Of course, coming from Jewish communities and having being preached to by fellow Jews in the 12 Apostles within their own lifetimes it is a bolster to our Christian faith of today IMHO.

Well, i see it that way anyway.

OK, just going off to synagogue now. Oh, i mean mass.
God Bless.

 

[HashemEchad]

I do not think that the Jews of that era could be described as “only wanting to be left alone.” They did their own share of provocation. The medieval Christians did wrong, but they were not mere bullies - they were responding in kind to various provocations from the Jewish community.

Do you know anything of medieval history at all? Where in theMiddle Ages did Jews provoke Christians? They would have had to be insane to, since the Catholic church was so intent on stamping out anyone and anything that did not agree with them.

 

[HashemEchad]

Yes, also the other way around, but doesn’t seem as though it works that way now does it?

The 2nd link in my sig line will give you some idea as to why that might be.

 

[HashemEchad]

The Child has become greater than its father. So now the Child has a duty of care to protect the father and not the other way round.

Blessings and peace

Lilyflower, I realize you are only trying to be charitable and help the situation, but perhaps you don’t realize how your statement comes across to a Jew?

It sound to me like the old medieval “sinagoga=fallen/ecclesia=triumphant” thing that was so big in medieval times. I realize there is no other way for you to see it, but I just wanted to let you know that in ecumenism, we try to see the validity in BOTH faiths, and not try to trump one over the other.

 

[jmcrae]

Do you know anything of medieval history at all? Where in theMiddle Ages did Jews provoke Christians? They would have had to be insane to, since the Catholic church was so intent on stamping out anyone and anything that did not agree with them.

I would need to find the sources again, but I remember one story of a group of Jews who burned down the Cathedral Church in a Spanish city, to show that the Jews were going to take over the city.

The congregation reacted by throwing every Jew in the city into the river. The Jews got wet; they didn’t drown, but it was the start of a vicious gang-style war between the two groups that lasted for several years.

This is the image that comes into my mind whenever anyone talks about the “poor, helpless Jews” vs. the “bad, mean Christians.”

They aren’t poor, nor are they helpless - they’re normal people just like everybody else, and they, too, sometimes do bad things to provoke others.

I also think that if the Jews want to be seen as equals, then they need to get off the “poor pitiful me” pot.

 

[Cathdefender]

I would need to find the sources again, but I remember one story of a group of Jews who burned down the Cathedral Church in a Spanish city, to show that the Jews were going to take over the city.

The congregation reacted by throwing every Jew in the city into the river. The Jews got wet; they didn’t drown, but it was the start of a vicious gang-style war between the two groups that lasted for several years.

This is the image that comes into my mind whenever anyone talks about the “poor, helpless Jews” vs. the “bad, mean Christians.”

They aren’t poor, nor are they helpless - they’re normal people just like everybody else, and they, too, sometimes do bad things to provoke others.

I also think that if the Jews want to be seen as equals, then they need to get off the “poor pitiful me” pot.

Yes, why do they always look for an apology?

 

[Lapell]

My older sister wrote an interesting article about this subject many years ago, I’m just wondering what all of you think.

Why do you think a group of Magi (singular: mage, meaning magician/astrologer) were looking for Jesus via the Eastern Star?

From Matthew’s account of the Gospel, it sounds as though they were going to bring gifts to the new King of the Jews who just was born, according to what they understood the appearance of a new star in heaven meant.
I have no clue as to this having been also the case of other kings in other kingdoms then or before… I don’t know!

 

[Lapell]

But that prophecy does not refer to Jesus. If you read that text from Numbers in context, you’ll see that.

Since it was meant for the future, how do you know it couldn’t be meant to mean him at all?

 

[Lapell]

Um, Jews never embalm our dead. NEVER. We never add any spices to the body either, to preserve it. This is why the NT passage which speaks of the body of Jesus having spices, etc applied always made me chuckle.

This is one thing that Judaism has always been very strict on: we never do ANYTHING to the body except wash it down and wrap it in a shroud with no pockets…then the bodies are placed into a plain, pine unpainted box, or in ancient times, in caves or right into the ground with no coffin.

The idea of applying spices and embalming came from the ancient Egyptians, not the Israelites.

Maybe you can get a better idea now, of why Jews who are very familiar with their religion and what it teaches/does, do not see what you do.

And couldn’t it be possible, though, that in Jesus’ time this custom from ancient Egypt could still have been in use? After all, Moses was raised by Egyptians!
How are you so sure it could not have been the case in Jesus’ time? You’ve read it in some books?

 

[Lapell]

I’m a religious Jew who is very, very familiar with Jewish law, tradition, and history. And I’m telling you that Jews have never used balm or anything of that nature for burial! It has always been a Gentile custom.

We never do anything to preserve or prepare the body, other than wash it with water, wrap it in a shroud with no pockets, and bury it.

This is a VERY ancient method which we have always used, despite what it may say in the NT.

Even if there are no pockets to that shroud, could the balm and myrrh not be applied on the body of the dead?

 

[Lapell]

That was for anointing for **prophetical and priestly **purposes, not for burial. The Prophet Samuel also anointed King Saul and King David, but it was while they were alive.

Well, Jesus WAS alive then, according to the Gospel text!

 

[Lapell]

I just realize now: the women who went to Jesus’ tomb brought their “equipment”, so to speak, to the tomb and found out that Jesus’ corpse was not there… But according to John’s account, when Joseph of Arimathea went with Nicodemus to bury Jesus, they “brought 75 pounds (the original text might use another corresponding measure of weight) of a myrrh and aloe mixture. They took Jesus’ body and bound it with strips of linen. They laced the strips with spices, according to the Jewish custom for burial.” (John 19,39-40) (I just looked into it right now!)
But, what makes you say that there would have to be pockets to put the spices?

 

[Kaninchen]

I would need to find the sources again, but I remember one story of a group of Jews who burned down the Cathedral Church in a Spanish city, to show that the Jews were going to take over the city.

Please do, it must be an interesting tale.

 

[Lapell]

Judaism has always taught the Resurrection of the dead, but not one person, one time. Judaism has always taught that the Resurrection of the dead will happen at the End of Days, and ALL people will be raised, not just one.

BTW who actually witnessed Jesus being raised from the dead? They claim to have seen him afterward, but no one claims to have actually seen him raised (btw it was a Catholic nun who pointed that fact out to me!)

Jesus did miracles? So did the magicians at Pharoah’s court. Miracles in and of themselves are meaningless.

You say no one dies for a lie? Some people do. There have been men on death row who went to their deaths professing innocence, but DNA tests later proved they were the murderers after all.

So you see, some people DO die for a lie.

And those who saw Him alive after His death, who touched Him, and saw Him eat some fish? True, they haven’t seen Him while He came back to life. But what they saw was concrete enough, it seems.
Now, that you don’t believe it is one thing. But You seem to be doing something even worse here, which I might understand to an extent but still disapprove. Now, bye!

 

[peary]

**Why were the Magi looking for Jesus? Because, as the Bible tells us, they saw His star in the East and the star stopped over the house where the Child was.

Something to think about: the only star that ‘stops’ anywhere is the Sun - it appears momentarily stationary at both the winter and summer solstices.

Also, the “Star of David” is more accurately translated as the “Shield of David”, rather than ‘star’. The Magen David (literally “Shield of David”) has six-points, which symbolize that God rules over the universe and protects us from all six directions: North, South, East, West, Up and Down. A similar symbolism is found in reading the “Shema.” (“Code of Jewish Law” O.C. 61:6)

Thus, King David used this six-pointed symbol to signify that the Almighty shields him in war. (Rabbi Moshe Feinstein - “Igrot Moshe” O.C. 3:15).

During the Bar Kochba rebellion (1st century), a new technology was developed for shields, which used the inherent stability of the triangle. Behind the shield were two interlocking triangles, forming a hexagonal pattern of support points.

Was there also an astronomical pattern that resembled this? Something to think about.**

 

[Lapell]

H.A., you are entitled to remain Jewish if you want and to not believe in Jesus… But now you seem so carried away, I don’t feel my faith in Jesus respected any more reading your posts here. Still, shalom!