Qestion for a Knights of Columbus member

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Annie39

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It has taken me a while to try to assertain which forum to put this post on. I finally decided on this one. Please advise if I chose the wrong one.

I think that the pastor of the parish that I am a member of is a living saint. I realize that we are not to judge, only God can judge his or anyone else’s soul but I have never encountered anyone like him before except in books about the lives of the saints. He was the celebrant of the Mass that I attended today. Having said this I have a problem with some members of my parish, namely the members of the Knights of Columbus. What I’m about to describe has happened several times. Today was for me a bridge too far so I tried to get in touch with the K of C located in our parish but the “contact us” will not accept comments without leaving my name and email address. This puts me in an awkward position that I don’t want to explain the reason right now. So I would like to discuss this with a member of the Knights who is basically a stranger to me right now although I’m ready to take the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune if necessary in my parish.
Mass was wonderful today. What it is meant to be. A little bit of heaven on earth. After I received the Eucharist the Mass seemed to end so very suddenly, I didn’t want to leave but I was with my husband so I did. As I was leaving, still filled with the wonder that just happened I was met with a person ( a K of C member) screaming like a carnival barker inviting everyone to the K of C breakfast. This was so jarring. Is there a member of the KOC on this forum who would like to discuss this with me? Do you or does anyone else see the problem here? Why oh why do people in your organization do this? I would appreciate any replies or comments.

Annie
 
Talk to your pastor. He is most likely the Chaplain for the local council. At the very least, he can pass along your concerns anonymously.

This this incident happen in the Nave\Worship Space or in the Narthex (outside of the Worship space). If it happened in he Nave, then that was certainly inappropriate and worthy of a reprimand.

If it happened outside of the worship space, for example, in a place people gather outside of Mass, then it worth of mention out of consideration, but the fault would be substantially less.
 
Brendan said:
Talk to your pastor. He is most likely the Chaplain for the local council. At the very least, he can pass along your concerns anonymously.

This this incident happen in the Nave\Worship Space or in the Narthex (outside of the Worship space). If it happened in he Nave, then that was certainly inappropriate and worthy of a reprimand.

If it happened outside of the worship space, for example, in a place people gather outside of Mass, then it worth of mention out of consideration, but the fault would be substantially less.
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Thank you for your reply Brendan. It was outside. I shudder to think of it being inside. However, the person was only a few feet from the entrance and (as me mother would have said) screaming like a banshee. This is so jarring. They are of course trying to raise moola, but the place that they are doing this is, to say the least, inappropriate. I know that priests have to pick their battles so I don’t intend to take this problem to the pastor. I am grateful for the incredibly beautiful Masses and the almost 30 hours of confessional time a week. If I ruled the world the carnival barker like problem would cease.

I wonder if any KofC members would like to comment.

Annie
 
So other than this particular type of incident, have you had other problems with this Council?

Have you attempted to charitably bring this up with the gentleman doing it, with your pastor, the chaplain or the GK of the Council?

In my limited experience, Knights have proven quite loyal to the leadership of the Order and not to mention the hierarchy of the Church we serve. That being said, all Councils have a good deal of autonomy in the programs they operate and the ways they choose to do business.

I would hope that this man and his Council will be receptive to the fact that his actions had the opposite effect on you from what was intended. If they are not, perhaps you should look around and see whether other parishioners feel similarly about this situation.
 
Uh… not sure what you want to discuss. So there is a person that you did not like their approach to getting people in and they happened to be members of the local KofC council… and ???

I have been a 3rd degree knight for 6 years and a member of 2 seperate councils. I can tell you there is no carnival barker training anywhere in the KofC that I’m aware of. In other words this isn’t something endemic to “people in your organization”, but perhaps that person or how that council is run.

If you have a problem please contact the Grand Knight of that council about your concerns. Painting the whole organization as a bunch of sideshow barkers is unjust as it is not the norm in my interaction with most (if not all) knights.
 
I, too, am a Knight–4th degree. I agree with the poster immediately above me–this is hardly something that needs to be discussed with another Knight. It has nothing to do with the K of C and everything to do with the personality of one individual.Deal with it as such, if you feel that this is a concern.
 
Chatter163 said:
I, too, am a Knight–4th degree. I agree with the poster immediately above me–this is hardly something that needs to be discussed with another Knight. It has nothing to do with the K of C and everything to do with the personality of one individual.Deal with it as such, if you feel that this is a concern.
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I do plan to deal with it locally but I was wondering what other Knights would say. I expect the person to be defensive and dislike my calling attention to it. It is however a K of C problem. It happens all the time. A few months ago they raffled a TV off and stood next to their table using the same carnival barker tactics I should say tacky tactics. Since this happens so often I have to assume that it is ok with the leader. I’m hoping that a member of the KofC in our parish will read this and recognize his organization and deal with it. If not, I will get in touch with them.

Annie
 
Annie39 said:
I do plan to deal with it locally but I was wondering what other Knights would say. I expect the person to be defensive and dislike my calling attention to it. It is however a K of C problem. It happens all the time. A few months ago they raffled a TV off and stood next to their table using the same carnival barker tactics I should say tacky tactics. Since this happens so often I have to assume that it is ok with the leader. I’m hoping that a member of the KofC in our parish will read this and recognize his organization and deal with it. If not, I will get in touch with them.

Annie
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Annie,

Are you sure this is a KofC issue? Perhaps it is just the usual way that parish organizations set up for their fundraising. Would it bother you the same if it was the youth group or the Catholic Daughters?

If you do decide to go to the pastor with this, make sure you go with an alternative suggestion. What would be a better way for the KofC (and other organizations) to get people to participate in their fundraising activities?
 
Annie39 said:
I do plan to deal with it locally but I was wondering what other Knights would say. I expect the person to be defensive and dislike my calling attention to it. It is however a K of C problem. It happens all the time. A few months ago they raffled a TV off and stood next to their table using the same carnival barker tactics I should say tacky tactics. Since this happens so often I have to assume that it is ok with the leader. I’m hoping that a member of the KofC in our parish will read this and recognize his organization and deal with it. If not, I will get in touch with them.

Annie
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Please remember there are more that 1.8 million members of the Knights of Columbus in over 15,000 councils. I doubt there are 15,000 KofC members on CAF that could represent each council so the chance that a member from the council at your local parish would see this is fairly remote.

Since it is a problem at the local level you will need to address it directly to the local council.
 
Corki said:
Annie,

Are you sure this is a KofC issue? Perhaps it is just the usual way that parish organizations set up for their fundraising. Would it bother you the same if it was the youth group or the Catholic Daughters?

If you do decide to go to the pastor with this, make sure you go with an alternative suggestion. What would be a better way for the KofC (and other organizations) to get people to participate in their fundraising activities?
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Yes its a KofC issue. We have other people out there at the same time. A pro-life group has signs stating why they are there. An evangelizing organization is there sometimes with a sign asking for volunteers. Its realy quite a busy area but everyone else is respectful.

Annie
 
Usige said:
Please remember there are more that 1.8 million members of the Knights of Columbus in over 15,000 councils. I doubt there are 15,000 KofC members on CAF that could represent each council so the chance that a member from the council at your local parish would see this is fairly remote.

Since it is a problem at the local level you will need to address it directly to the local council.
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What is the title of the head of the local council?
 
I will preface this by saying that I am a member of the Knights of Columbus, having obtained the Fourth Degree, and having been a Past Grand Knight, a Former District Deputy, and a past Faithful Navigator.
Annie39 said:
Yes its a KofC issue. We have other people out there at the same time. A pro-life group has signs stating why they are there. An evangelizing organization is there sometimes with a sign asking for volunteers. Its realy quite a busy area but everyone else is respectful.
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It sounds less of a “K of C” issue than an issue with the people who are in the local council. Different groups attract different types of personalities. For example, a pro-life group commonly have people who are used to events where they stand and let their signs do the talking. People who look for volunteers probably expect few if any to do so and those who will generally take the imitative.

On the other hand, you are going to see a lot of the Members of the K of C (when it is obvious they are members of the K of C) trying to get people to support some worthy charity or an event to raise money for that charity. I can see some people who might get overly excited about this, because they are looking at that worthy cause.

Sometimes you have to tell people to calm down, or ask them politely to do so.

The Knights always consider themselves the “right arm of the church” and “Catholic Gentlemen.” It does sound like some people are going over the line outside the Church.

The title of the head of the local council is “Grand Knight.” His assistant is the “Deputy Grand Knight.” Hope this helps.
 
Please, please, please… don’t approach anyone about this. You stated that it is happening outside (as in, the public arena). I do understand your personal distaste for this behaviour (and actually agree), however we cannot expect the world to adapt to us. We must make the effort to adapt to the world in situations that are not immoral, unethical or illegal.

For every one of us, there is someone who doesn’t mind and/or likes and appreciates this particular approach. Our personal wishes don’t take precedent.
 
grasscutter said:
Please, please, please… don’t approach anyone about this. You stated that it is happening outside (as in, the public arena). I do understand your personal distaste for this behaviour (and actually agree), however we cannot expect the world to adapt to us. We must make the effort to adapt to the world in situations that are not immoral, unethical or illegal.

For every one of us, there is someone who doesn’t mind and/or likes and appreciates this particular approach. Our personal wishes don’t take precedent.
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Well grasscutter I could not disagree with you more so I’m going to go out on a limb here and speculate that maybe you attend one of those many parishes where the noise level is high like busy people running around with maybe the ushers chatting in the back of the Church even during Mass. Perhaps there is a long offering each other peace with back slaps and people roaming around to find a friend or two a few pews over to hug. All of that business does not create a holy atmosphere. At least that was my experience for much of my adult life. Until less than 6 months ago when we moved from California, this was the norm so I maybe I would not have felt as spiritually assaulted if that had been the case.

Or perhaps you just don’t realize how close to the entrance of the Church this was. We were greeted with this yelling immediately after stepping outside.

Annie
 
Annie39 said:
Well grasscutter I could not disagree with you more so I’m going to go out on a limb here and speculate that maybe you attend one of those many parishes where the noise level is high like busy people running around with maybe the ushers chatting in the back of the Church even during Mass. Perhaps there is a long offering each other peace with back slaps and people roaming around to find a friend or two a few pews over to hug. All of that business does not create a holy atmosphere. At least that was my experience for much of my adult life. Until less than 6 months ago when we moved from California, this was the norm so I maybe I would not have felt as spiritually assaulted if that had been the case.

Or perhaps you just don’t realize how close to the entrance of the Church this was. We were greeted with this yelling immediately after stepping outside.

Annie
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I don’t see any comparison between what happens outside the Church, after Mass has ended with a suspected boisterous environment during Mass or any reason to speculate. :mad:
 
Corki said:
I don’t see any comparison between what happens outside the Church, after Mass has ended with a suspected boisterous environment during Mass or any reason to speculate. :mad:
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Once again I’ll go out on a limb and speculate that maybe you haven’t had the experience of attending a Mass celebrated by a person who gives every indication of being a saint (Think Francis of Assisi without perhaps as much emphases on “Lady Poverty”) followed immediately as you stepped out the door by a carnival barker type person. In my former parish the KofC held a pancake breakfast as well but there was no one screaming at us as we left Mass.

I find the icon you chose interesting, why the anger?
 
It used to happen in my Church too - KoC event carnival barkering in the narthex, five feet in front of the holy water font as everyone is exiting the nave. The barkering is loud enough that it resonated inside the Church. It was always one person in particular, who also took it upon himself to make announcements from the Ambo before Mass. I quietly approached the pastor, voiced my displeasure, and let it go completely. I have not noticed this behavior since.

This same guy also ran gambling and beer events in the cafeteria of the Catholic School in the evenings. I mentioned it quietly and privately to the school principal - a Dominican Sister - and dropped the issue. I have no idea if it is ongoing or not.

The rest of the KoC guys seem pretty respectful as they promote their events, although I do wish they would stop proselytizing me.

-Tim-
 
Annie39 said:
Once again I’ll go out on a limb and speculate that maybe you haven’t had the experience of attending a Mass celebrated by a person who gives every indication of being a saint (Think Francis of Assisi without perhaps as much emphases on “Lady Poverty”) followed immediately as you stepped out the door by a carnival barker type person. In my former parish the KofC held a pancake breakfast as well but there was no one screaming at us as we left Mass.

I find the icon you chose interesting, why the anger?
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Careful about the speculation. My current pastor is very reverent in his offering of the Mass and insists on quiet reverence in the nave. But once outside the door, he is the first one to engage in back-slapping (literally) and to call out loud and joyful greetings to parishioners and others and he encourages lots of fun activities in the hall (which we pass through to get outside) after Mass. In fact, he purposely sets up a gauntlet when he wants people to engage in an activity after Mass. Most people like it that we don’t leave Mass with long faces but go out joyfully into the world.

The angry face was because you were disparaging someone’s parish for no good reason and because you were wrongly equating what happens outside of Mass with various irreverent practices.

BTW, your story seems to have changed some. At first it was a KofC gentleman who was being like a “carnival barker” in his inviting Mass goers to a breakfast. And now he is “screaming at” you? Which is it - an overly boisterous person trying to drum up business for a fundraiser or someone verbally accosting you? The former is likely a matter or degree and personal preference. The latter should definitely be acted upon.
 
Annie

I’m sorry, but I’m going to go out on a limb and say this is your problem, not a KofC problem, and possibly not even a problem for anyone else. Really, please find something else to be concerned about and have a more charitable attitude toward the KofC member(s) and the work they do.

If the noise level bothers you, then simply walk away. There is no need for a discussion about this and as you can see from the other posts your personal feelings on this are being met with some confusion.
 
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