Quandary

[steelboss]

I need advice.

I am a recent convert.
My wife is Presbyterian.
Two of our children (age 4 and 2) have not been baptized.

My situation is very sensitive as I am the only Catholic in either of our families, and they have not been accepting of my conversion.

My wife is…struggling with Catholicism.
She definitely does not want it pushed on her - and I have tried to comply, but it seems that anytime I discuss my faith it is taken as evangelizing. Since Catholicism is the center of my life now - it is very difficult for me to contain my enthusiasm - but I try.
She has not rejected Catholicism, but is quite skeptical.

How do I approach her on what I consider an urgent need to baptize my children? She considers baptism to be a conscious decision and does not understand the Catholic beliefs surrounding the effect of baptism removing the mark of original sin.

I am so very torn.
On one hand I want to baptize them NOW - in the tub if necessary.
But I don’t want to violate our trust between my wife and I.
I am not cetain I will be able to talk her into letting me baptize them.

Thanks in advance for your replies!

 

[SomeCatholicGuy]

I’m kind of curious, but do Presbyterians not believe in baptism? Or do they just not believe in infant baptism?

 

[SMHW]

Well, unless it is an emergency you shouldn’t baptize your children in a tub. It would not be licit (legal).

I would definitely speak to your priest, deacon, or parish baptismal leader to get some perspective.

And I would suggest that when you do speak to your wife you minimize pushing her to allow you to baptize your children and instead try to get her to expound on what she believes about baptism. You say she thinks it should be a conscious act and doesn’t understand the part about removing original sin.

What does she believe are the effects of baptism, if any? Does she believe it is merely a symbolic act of obedience to Christ that is meaningless for a young child? Does she think it is just a matter of Church legalities or jurisdiction? Does she fear this is just the first step in taking her children away from her religion? Does she truly understand what Presbyterians believe?

You say that two of your children have not been baptized. That suggests that you have at least one child who was baptized. Was this at the child’s request?

 

[Thomas63116]

I would suggest gathering some information on non-Catholic denominations that practice infant baptism as well. This may be more persuasive to your wife than purely Catholic material.

For example, the link below seems to suggest that the Presbyterian Church USA (PCUSA) practices infant Baptism:

pcusa.org/101/101-infant.htm

I’m not sure about the Presbyterian Church in America (PCA) which is the other large Presbyterian congregation.

 

[ChristinaM]

I would suggest gathering some information on non-Catholic denominations that practice infant baptism as well. This may be more persuasive to your wife than purely Catholic material.

For example, the link below seems to suggest that the Presbyterian Church USA (PCUSA) practices infant Baptism:

pcusa.org/101/101-infant.htm

I’m not sure about the Presbyterian Church in America (PCA) which is the other large Presbyterian congregation.

I have a friend who is PCA and she tells me they do practice infant baptism. I always thought “believer’s baptism” was a more of a Baptist doctrine.

 

[steelboss]

Well, unless it is an emergency you shouldn’t baptize your children in a tub. It would not be licit (legal).

I would definitely speak to your priest, deacon, or parish baptismal leader to get some perspective.

And I would suggest that when you do speak to your wife you minimize pushing her to allow you to baptize your children and instead try to get her to expound on what she believes about baptism. You say she thinks it should be a conscious act and doesn’t understand the part about removing original sin.

What does she believe are the effects of baptism, if any? Does she believe it is merely a symbolic act of obedience to Christ that is meaningless for a young child? Does she think it is just a matter of Church legalities or jurisdiction? Does she fear this is just the first step in taking her children away from her religion? Does she truly understand what Presbyterians believe?

You say that two of your children have not been baptized. That suggests that you have at least one child who was baptized. Was this at the child’s request?

To answer your questions -

Yes - she believes it is symbolic only.
Yes - this would be perceived as a step away from her faith.
Yes - Our 12 year old was baptized last year in the Presbyterian church under her own recognizance.
No - I was being a little facetious with the baptism in the tub comment - I wouldn’t go that route.
No - I don’t think she fully understands her own church. (I don’t think her church understands themselves either!!)

I do like the idea of showing her that her own faith (or at least some fragment denominations - there are many that call themselves Presbyterian) believe in infant baptism.

 

[Rolltide]

Another thing that you might want to consider is getting a copy of the book “Catholicism for Dummies”. It’s not as intimidating as say, the Catechism, but it’s still quite thorough. That way, if your wife has a question, she can pick up the book and learn about a topic on her own. (By the way, do NOT confuse this book with the similarly sounding “Idiot’s Guide to Catholicism”, which is not written by Catholics, is written with a liberal slant, and contains several factual errors.)

 

[Thomas63116]

Does the specific church she attends ever have infant baptisms? If so, maybe she could talk to the pastor there about it. Some others might slam this idea, but what about having the kids baptized at her church?

 

[Em_in_FL]

Does the specific church she attends ever have infant baptisms? If so, maybe she could talk to the pastor there about it. Some others might slam this idea, but what about having the kids baptized at her church?

This may be a good compromise.
Christian Baptism is a cross-denomination sacrament…

Catechism link…

The sacramental bond of the unity of Christians

1271
Baptism constitutes the foundation of communion among all Christians, including those who are not yet in full communion with the Catholic Church: "For men who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in some, though imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church. Justified by faith in Baptism, [they] are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church."81 "Baptism therefore constitutes the sacramental bond of unity existing among all who through it are reborn."82

 

[BamaRider]

I trhink what you have to do is be the best Catholic you can be. Live your life in the Fullness of the Faith. Let everyone see how much your Faith has enriched your life by example. Live your life full of hope, optimism, and be somebody people want to be around, and when they ask you why you are so much fun to be around, see how your treat your wife and kids, and all people. Tell them you feel good about yourself and this world because ain’t nuttin like being Catholic.

*That *will have the deepest effect on your wife and children. I would not bring up religion unless she does, in the meantime I’d be going to Mass, and helping at my parish, and living my lfie according to my Faith.

Also get them use to fish sticks during Lent, so might be a good idea to break them in by having them at least once a month till then. Fish sticks are a acquired taste. Check with Em in Fla or Aimee for the right tartar sauce, cause I only like ketchup on mine.

And thats my :twocents:

 

[jwashu]

To answer your questions -

Yes - she believes it is symbolic only.
Yes - this would be perceived as a step away from her faith.
Yes - Our 12 year old was baptized last year in the Presbyterian church under her own recognizance.
No - I was being a little facetious with the baptism in the tub comment - I wouldn’t go that route.
No - I don’t think she fully understands her own church. (I don’t think her church understands themselves either!!)

I do like the idea of showing her that her own faith (or at least some fragment denominations - there are many that call themselves Presbyterian) believe in infant baptism.

As a former Presbyterian Youth Director I’m a little confused. The PCUSA and PCA both believe in Infant Baptism. It’s only symbolic to them but nonetheless is valid in the Catholic Church as it’s done in the name of the “Father, Son and Holy Spirit.” All of my sons but my youngest were Baptized Presbyterian at about 5 or 6 months. My youngest was actually “Catholic” before we were (we came into full communion at the Easter Vigil).

If you wife is having issues perhaps she should read Home Sweet Rome by Scott and Kimberly Hahn. They went through 5 years of her still being Presbyterian and him being Catholic, it’s a good read.

Also, there is a book by Dave Armstrong called “Catholic Verses” that has notation from Luther and Calvin compared against the Catholic Teachings. Dave’s style is a little egocentric but it’s a good read.

What is difficult about being Presbyterian right now is that many church are as you stated, they really don’t know what they believe. Traditional Reformed Theology though support infant baptism so again, I’m confused as to why it was done at Confirmation for your oldest.

If you have any questions I’ll be glad to help if I can, just shoot me a PM.

In Christ,

Joe

 

[Ruthie]

I posted yesterday somewhere about infant baptism, so my mind is fairly clear. I said something like this:

The crucial Bible verse, to me, is this: "Let the children come to me, do not hinder them; for to such belongs the kingdom of God.(Mark 10:14 RSV) With your strong belief in infant baptism, not having your children baptized would be hindering them. And I wouldn’t want to stand in front of Jesus, and have Him ask me, “Why didn’t you have your children baptized?”

Since her church baptizes with the correct formula, why not ask her to get them baptized there? Perhaps that would be a compromise that would work.

Praying for you and your family,

Ruthie

 

[KCtheMommy]

Another thing that you might want to consider is getting a copy of the book “Catholicism for Dummies”. It’s not as intimidating as say, the Catechism, but it’s still quite thorough. That way, if your wife has a question, she can pick up the book and learn about a topic on her own. (By the way, do NOT confuse this book with the similarly sounding “Idiot’s Guide to Catholicism”, which is not written by Catholics, is written with a liberal slant, and contains several factual errors.)

COMPLETELY AGREE.

 

[steelboss]

I trhink what you have to do is be the best Catholic you can be. Live your life in the Fullness of the Faith. Let everyone see how much your Faith has enriched your life by example. Live your life full of hope, optimism, and be somebody people want to be around, and when they ask you why you are so much fun to be around, see how your treat your wife and kids, and all people. Tell them you feel good about yourself and this world because ain’t nuttin like being Catholic.

AMEN AMEN!!

It seems silly that people continue to judge a religion by the people in it, but it is true. If I want to have a Catholic family, I need to be that flagship / leader / father / spiritual head / mentor that epitomizes Catholic living.

If you have not seen it - rent the movie BELLA.
This is a perfect example of good Catholicism in practice.