Queen of Heaven and Paganism

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Some claim that the “Queen of Heaven” title is borrowed from pagan mystery religions dating back to Babylon. Jeremiah 44 reference the Queen of Heaven. Can anyone out there comment on this and provide any resources for further research?
 
BBachman said:
Some claim that the “Queen of Heaven” title is borrowed from pagan mystery religions dating back to Babylon. Jeremiah 44 reference the Queen of Heaven. Can anyone out there comment on this and provide any resources for further research?
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Hmmm…

The title ‘Christ’ is borrowed from ‘pagan’ Greeks.

Where will the madness end?😃
 
hi
im catholic, but isnt the word christ is found in the bible also? so that might not be a good response to protestant.

thanks
marlo
Ahimsa said:
Hmmm…

The title ‘Christ’ is borrowed from ‘pagan’ Greeks.

Where will the madness end?😃
Click to expand...
 
marlo said:
hi
im catholic, but isnt the word christ is found in the bible also? so that might not be a good response to protestant.

thanks
marlo
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Hello,

True, ‘Christ’ is in the Bible, but that fact doesn’t negate the ‘pagan’ origins of ‘Christ’.
 
BBachman said:
Some claim that the “Queen of Heaven” title is borrowed from pagan mystery religions dating back to Babylon. Jeremiah 44 reference the Queen of Heaven. Can anyone out there comment on this and provide any resources for further research?
Click to expand...
Many of Christ’s titles were titles used previously by pagans, such as “King of Kings”. Just because a person may have used a particular title before it was used by the Christians in no way means that these titles are pagan in sense.
 
BBachman said:
Some claim that the “Queen of Heaven” title is borrowed from pagan mystery religions dating back to Babylon. Jeremiah 44 reference the Queen of Heaven. Can anyone out there comment on this and provide any resources for further research?
Click to expand...
Just answer this question:

Is Jesus King?

If yes, then what does that make his mother?
 
Maranatha said:
Queen of Heaven is from Rev 12:1-2.
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I agree with Maranatha…Revelations is a strong passage that describes Mary as Queen “crown of twelve stars”. Also if we look at OT we see that in the monarchy the mother of the king was the queen mother and had an actual office to fill; 1 Kgs 2. Therefore Mary too has a role to play in the salvation of her children.
When one considers the links between Adam-Eve, Jesus-Mary, Jesus-Church, Bridegroom-bride, ArcoftheCovenant-Mary, King-Queen, together with Luke’s description of Mary and Revelation’s it all seems to fit. Something that comes to mind… every time an angel appears to people in the Bible it is the person that reveres the angel sometimes even starts to worship it because it is such a pure and mightty spirit so they confuse it with God (then the angels always correct them telling them they are not God). It is only in the case of Mary that the angel honors Mary instead of the other way around; “Hail full of grace”.

Well others can elaborate
BTW you may wish to read Hail Holy Queen by Scott Hahn you can hear him in EWTN’s archived audio library files…just make a search… you will prob. need realplayer to listen to them (you can download it free of charge from the net)

Cheers
Alex
 
in Revelation 12:3, the red dragon also has a crown, and not just one but seven, doe this make the red dragon “king”?

thanks

12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads
alexaustralia said:
I agree with Maranatha…Revelations is a strong passage that describes Mary as Queen “crown of twelve stars”. Also if we look at OT we see that in the monarchy the mother of the king was the queen mother and had an actual office to fill; 1 Kgs 2. Therefore Mary too has a role to play in the salvation of her children.
When one considers the links between Adam-Eve, Jesus-Mary, Jesus-Church, Bridegroom-bride, ArcoftheCovenant-Mary, King-Queen, together with Luke’s description of Mary and Revelation’s it all seems to fit. Something that comes to mind… every time an angel appears to people in the Bible it is the person that reveres the angel sometimes even starts to worship it because it is such a pure and mightty spirit so they confuse it with God (then the angels always correct them telling them they are not God). It is only in the case of Mary that the angel honors Mary instead of the other way around; “Hail full of grace”.

Well others can elaborate
BTW you may wish to read Hail Holy Queen by Scott Hahn you can hear him in EWTN’s archived audio library files…just make a search… you will prob. need realplayer to listen to them (you can download it free of charge from the net)

Cheers
Alex
Click to expand...
 
marlo said:
in Revelation 12:3, the red dragon also has a crown, and not just one but seven, doe this make the red dragon “king”?

thanks

12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads
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Wasn’t the earth his kingdom until the Crucifixion? In this case, the seven crowns may represent the 7 districts of the Roman Empire at the time of the first century.
 
Ahh the pagan arguement. It seems every time I turn around (in person, not on this forum) someone is saying to me…

“You know, Catholics took [insert practice or belief] from the pagans”

or

“Pagans used to do that before the spread of Christianity”

Pagans also wore shoes and ate food. Does that mean I have to go barefoot and eat rocks?

The words here are not as important as the meaning behind them. For example, many people accuse Catholics of Mary Worship. Indeed, if your true meaning when saying the same words as every other Catholic is to worship Mary, then I’d say you are worshipping Mary. With any other title for Jesus, God the Father or the Holy Spirit, if in your heart your worship is directed elsewhere, I’d say we have a major problem.
 
This is one of the weirdest assertions that I ever encounter.

There is no tie in whatsoever between the idol in the OT and the Blessed Virgin Mary aside from the title. That is no problem any more than the title King of Kings for Christ Himself. Unless of course one is willing to assert that that title is also heretical since it was used in the OT for idolatrous kings.:eek:

Ezra 7:12 Artaxerxes king of kings to Esdras the priest, the most learned scribe of the law of the God of heaven, greeting.

Ezechiel 26:7 For thus saith the Lord God: Behold I will bring against Tyre Nabuchodonosor king of Babylon, the king of kings, from the north, with horses, and chariots, and horsemen, and companies, and much people.

Daniel 2:37 Thou art a king of kings: and the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, and strength, and power, and glory:

2nd Machabees 13:4 But the King of kings stirred up the mind of Antiochus against the sinner, and upon Lysias suggesting that he was the cause of all the evils, he commanded (as the custom is with them) that he should be apprehended and put to death in the same place.

1st Timothy 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew who is the Blessed and only Mighty, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;

Revelation 17:14 These shall fight with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them, because he is Lord of lords, and King of kings, and they that are with him

Revelation 19:16 And he hath on his garment, and on his thigh written: KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
 
marlo said:
in Revelation 12:3, the red dragon also has a crown, and not just one but seven, doe this make the red dragon “king”?

thanks

12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads
Click to expand...
I believe (could be wrong) that the seven crowns represent those kingdoms that were against God through Bible History

Babylon
Persia
Assyria
Rome
Egypt (maybe)…sorry I am at work at the moment and can’t get all from the top of my head.
 
Church_Militant said:
This is one of the weirdest assertions that I ever encounter.

There is no tie in whatsoever between the idol in the OT and the Blessed Virgin Mary aside from the title. That is no problem any more than the title King of Kings for Christ Himself. Unless of course one is willing to assert that that title is also heretical since it was used in the OT for idolatrous kings.:eek:

Ezra 7:12 Artaxerxes king of kings to Esdras the priest, the most learned scribe of the law of the God of heaven, greeting.

Ezechiel 26:7 For thus saith the Lord God: Behold I will bring against Tyre Nabuchodonosor king of Babylon, the king of kings, from the north, with horses, and chariots, and horsemen, and companies, and much people.

Daniel 2:37 Thou art a king of kings: and the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, and strength, and power, and glory:

2nd Machabees 13:4 But the King of kings stirred up the mind of Antiochus against the sinner, and upon Lysias suggesting that he was the cause of all the evils, he commanded (as the custom is with them) that he should be apprehended and put to death in the same place.

1st Timothy 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew who is the Blessed and only Mighty, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;

Revelation 17:14 These shall fight with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them, because he is Lord of lords, and King of kings, and they that are with him

Revelation 19:16 And he hath on his garment, and on his thigh written: KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
Click to expand...

Michael,​

Just wondering - why are you using a title for Christ that comes from a Hymn to Osiris 😃 ?

Chapter VIII
Hymns To Osiris, and Osiris Un-nefer, from the Book of the Dead

“Homage be to thee, O King of kings, Lord of lords, Ruler of princes, who from the womb of Nut hast ruled the world and the Underworld”

touregypt.net/osirhymn.htm
 
Also 7 represents in Biblical language “completeness” so seven crowns could also mean a complete rebelliousness against God and hence could be reference to pure evil…however do not know whether the dragon would then be indicative of satan himself…
 
Gottle_of_Geer said:

Michael,​

Click to expand...
Just wondering - why are you using a title for Christ that comes from a Hymn to Osiris 😃 ?

Chapter VIII
Hymns To Osiris, and Osiris Un-nefer, from the Book of the Dead

“Homage be to thee, O King of kings, Lord of lords, Ruler of princes, who from the womb of Nut hast ruled the world and the Underworld”

touregypt.net/osirhymn.htm

Gosh Michael…Lemme think for a sec here…Oh YEAH! Because the Bible calls Him that?
Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum,
 
BBachman said:
Some claim that the “Queen of Heaven” title is borrowed from pagan mystery religions dating back to Babylon. Jeremiah 44 reference the Queen of Heaven. Can anyone out there comment on this and provide any resources for further research?
Click to expand...

Please tell us about these mystery religions -​

  • especially: what have they to do with Babylon 🙂 ?
  • What reason to connect them with Babylon is there ?
  • And how is the Queen of Heaven in Jeremiah 7 & 44 involved ?
  • What has this to with what we Catholics do or think or believe ?
    I think you’ve been misled by some well-meaning but misinformed person ##
 
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