Query "Why Do Topics Of Sexual Nature Pervade This Forum"?

[Heliotropium]

I believe it is good Catholic practice to consult a priest for spiritual advice, and any moral issues regardless of their nature. However not everyone has the opportunity to do this and this forum plays a big role in where these individuals can go to get spiritual advice (although I would take some of the advice given here with a big grain of salt). Is it frustrating that most of the topics in this moral theology forum deal with sins of a grievous sexual nature? Yes it is! Would one think that people should know that these are sins that should be understood by any catechumen as being grievous sins? Well yes you would think, but we should also keep in mind that not all catechumens are taught correctly, and that not all Catholics struggling to be good Catholics have someone to teach them.

While this repeating of sexual topics is frustrating it should however show us a very clear and sad fact that most people are not getting a proper education regarding The Catholic Faith and morals. We should express an evangelical love for these people who are in these unfortunate situations, and thank God that they have come to this forum to seek help. Furthermore we have the opportunity to show Gods love and direct these people to where they can find the answers to their questions, and any future questions. If these constant questions upset us then I would say lets offer our frustration up to God, and pray for all who are experiencing these problems and for ourselves that we may always show an eagerness to help souls. Especially since these sins are the greatest contributor of souls being lost to Hell for all eternity! Let’s put our frustrations aside and try to keep in mind that these people’s souls are more important than our comfort.

 

[camerong]

I read that you find some of these threads disgusting, but frankly, I think the graphic posts are some of the most necessary. It is clear that masturbation is wrong, and those threads are rarely graphic. Instead, what often is graphic are queries by married couples looking to stay within the bounds of sexual morality. Does the post “Female stimulation during sexual intercourse” disgust you? This is a topic by a married couple, discussing a issue directly discussed by JPII. You and other might say this couple should have addressed this question to a priest, not an online forum, but that could be problematic for many reasons–an unknowledgeable, difficult to approach, or flat out wrong priest, or the couple might be extremely nervous about such a topic and too intimidated to discuss it with a priest, etc.

I do not wish to offend anyone who finds such posts distasteful, but I would rather help someone avoid a potentially life-long sin (or alternatively, be assured that they are not sining) than have someone avoid being momentarily disgusted.

 

[camerong]

The other reason posts about sexual topics are so pervasive is because people who engage in non-marital sexual situations want someone to tell them it’s OK. They’re hoping for some loophole that will justify their behavior.

This is undoubtedly true. But it is also undoubtedly true that some, finding no justification for their behavior, give it up, and we would blessed to be a part of that.

 

[OraLabora]

This is undoubtedly true. But it is also undoubtedly true that some, finding no justification for their behavior, give it up, and we would blessed to be a part of that.

That may be a pipe dream as well. Because if you fish around enough there will be someone… even priests and religious… who will say it’s OK.

Wanna bet that the searcher will latch onto the 1 person who says it’s OK and ignore the 99 others who don’t?

Human nature never fails to disappoint.

 

[camerong]

That may be a pipe dream as well. Because if you fish around enough there will be someone… even priests and religious… who will say it’s OK.

Wanna bet that the searcher will latch onto the 1 person who says it’s OK and ignore the 99 others who don’t?

Human nature never fails to disappoint.

My previous post described me, actually. After converting, I had given up a certain sexual sin, knowing the Catholic stance on it. My heart still longed for the sin, however, and I came to this forum specifically looking for some justification for it. I found not only no justification, but a clear and emphatic answer to any lingering idea that I could tolerate this sin in my renewed effort to live a faithful life. Thanks to people who make an effort to answer the same inane questions over and over and refute the same lame objections over and over, I defeated–in mind as well as in practice–my sin. I am a greatly different person today because of it.

Human nature never fails to disappoint, but Christ never fails to amaze. The work we do on this forum (I now include myself as someone pointing others to the light) is Christ’s. Spreading the good news about Christ–and how to live in closer communion with Him–is never, ever a pipe dream.

 

[Reuben_J]

The other reason posts about sexual topics are so pervasive is because people who engage in non-marital sexual situations want someone to tell them it’s OK. They’re hoping for some loophole that will justify their behavior.

Thanks for making an a great post. I believe the paragraph you quoted above “is” precisely why for the most part so many here in this forum do construct explicit subjects concerning the sexual type of behavioral subjects we see in this forum.

I believe it is the responsibility of Catholics here who have proven to themselves strictly through the exclusive use of fervent prayer and grace from God that one can lead a chaste life acceptable in the eyes of God and give tactful testimony to those who lack the vision of sexual responsibility.

I have not yet engaged in such threads in my years here in the Forum. I do open such threads sometimes but the answers to most of them are so obvious that I refrained from saying what would be just common sense. I would offer a reply, I used to say to myself but then again someone would most likely respond, and the job done, I have no use to it anymore.

This is not to say that I am such a good guy; but it is my choice not to engage in the topic, not because I am selfish but because I could always choose some other threads. This is not to say that you are judgmental when you brought up this subject; in fact this is a good subject for discussion.

It is ironic because I encounter this very often in real life – counseling and helping people with sexual and marriage problem. Now my answer to your question: sexual problem is one of the most prevalent that people encounter today. It affect their lives, in fact lots of lives are broken because of it, either through ignorant or that people should have known better.

When I see such threads my compassion is for the OPs. They need help. We can rue the fact of lack of catechizing but this problem is not as simple as it seems. How easy it is to blame the parents for their children’s lack of sexual knowledge. In practice or when we become parents ourselves we know that what happens to our children is not always what we expect them to do.

As for confessing and getting counsel from priests. Again, only if we can imagine how difficult it is to go to anybody and open up our sexual secret. It is difficult – that’s why it is not often done. Internet seems to be the easy way out though not always a solution, one would have somebody though anonymous, addressing this problem.

I would say – take these posters at face value. Deal with them with compassion and help them by offering good advice. If we feel not like doing it, let those who want to, do it.

God bless.

 

[piejesu]

"Why Do Topics Of Sexual Nature Pervade This Forum"?

We remember the fish we ate in Egypt for nothing, the cucumbers, the melons, the leeks, the onions, and the garlic; Num 11:5

*Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. 1Jn 2:15a *

This is what we struggle with. It is not pretty, neither is it tidy nor orderly, nor convenient. It is messy.

“The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim release to the captives and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty those who are oppressed…” Lk 4:18

And where does our Lord do these things? In the House of Prayer yes, but more so out in the streets, the byways, the highways, and the messy parts of our world.

I think the moderators do a good job here. I think there is much charity and lenience shown. We don’t all have the same background, nor same ability to articulate, nor a sameness in our level of proprietary awareness, yet we are all struggling in similar ways… some more gracefully than others, but all in need of God’s grace.

 

[FiberZilla]

Topics of a sexual nature pervade these forums because sex is one of the most powerful drives we experience in this lifetime and we live in a society that celebrates all forms of sexual expression no matter how perverse.

The church on the other hand has gone to the other extreme and forbids all non-procreative sexual expression even within the context of marriage. Many early theologians labeled any sexual pleasure as evil and these attitudes are still common today. This sets up a no-win situation for many people resulting in tremendous inner conflict, distress, fear and anxiety.

People come to these forums looking for any grain of wisdom that can give them some peace.
:twocents:

 

[baylee]

Topics of a sexual nature pervade these forums because sex is one of the most powerful drives we experience in this lifetime and we live in a society that celebrates all forms of sexual expression no matter how perverse.

The church on the other hand has gone to the other extreme and forbids all non-procreative sexual expression even within the context of marriage. Many early theologians labeled any sexual pleasure as evil and these attitudes are still common today. This sets up a no-win situation for many people resulting in tremendous inner conflict, distress, fear and anxiety.

People come to these forums looking for any grain of wisdom that can give them some peace.
:twocents:

Agreed.

 

[chessmane4e5]

Topics of a sexual nature pervade these forums because sex is one of the most powerful drives we experience in this lifetime and we live in a society that celebrates all forms of sexual expression no matter how perverse.

Agreed.

The church on the other hand has gone to the other extreme and forbids all non-procreative sexual expression even within the context of marriage. Many early theologians labeled any sexual pleasure as evil and these attitudes are still common today. This sets up a no-win situation for many people resulting in tremendous inner conflict, distress, fear and anxiety.

Disagree. The Catholic Church does not “forbid all non-procreative sexual expression even within the context of marriage.”

Please do not make such false statements. What the Church has done is taken a stand against immoral sexual expression, namely Contraception. It is precisely the use of contraception that allows our society to be so free when it comes to sex.

 

[m134e5]

What puzzles me is why they don’t simply seek out confession and spiritual direction in their parishes.

It’s really the most appropriate place to discuss very personal and graphic details.

Sometimes, unfortunately, the priests can’t or won’t talk about these issues in a way that is faithful to the Church’s teaching. Often, even the priests who are faithful to the Church don’t relate well to the people who need their support and advice the most. Sometimes seeking out confession and spiritual direction- that is faithful to the Church at least- is far from simple. I agree, it is the most appropriate place, but for some, it’s out of reach for them. Still, this isn’t confession or counseling, and people should be as tactful as possible when talking about these issues. It isn’t necessary to give a lot of detail when asking about sexual issues (nor is it necessary to ask questions that you can find A LOT of answers to in the CAF archives, but there is no rule against that- people can if they want, but they probably won’t be popular for their originality).

 

[GodLovesTheSpek]

Agreed.

Disagree. The Catholic Church does not “forbid all non-procreative sexual expression even within the context of marriage.”

Please do not make such false statements. What the Church has done is taken a stand against immoral sexual expression, namely Contraception. It is precisely the use of contraception that allows our society to be so free when it comes to sex.

I disagree and I think the The Catholic Church will also. The sole purpose of sex is to enter into a Holy Union, expressing love for each other, and not present an obstacle to the creation of life. Period. Now, within reason, the Catholic Church allows various means to express love (through sexual acts) as long as the end goal is always to attempt to create live.

One might argue: Well what about a married couple in their 70’s and woman has passed menopause? Should they stop having sex? NO! As long as THEY do not present an artificial obstacle it’s OK. One need look no further than the experience of Elizabeth.

 

[Reuben_J]

chessmane4e5:

I disagree and I think the The Catholic Church will also. The sole purpose of sex is to enter into a Holy Union, expressing love for each other, and not present an obstacle to the creation of life. Period. Now, within reason, the Catholic Church allows various means to express love (through sexual acts) as long as the end goal is always to attempt to create live.

One might argue: Well what about a married couple in their 70’s and woman has passed menopause? Should they stop having sex? NO! As long as THEY do not present an artificial obstacle it’s OK. One need look no further than the experience of Elizabeth.

I think you miss the spirit of the poster’s post in saying, “The Catholic Church does not forbid all non-procreative sexual expression even within the context of marriage” which is a response to another poster who said this, “The church on the other hand has gone to the other extreme and forbids all non-procreative sexual expression even within the context of marriage. Many early theologians labeled any sexual pleasure as evil and these attitudes are still common today. This sets up a no-win situation for many people resulting in tremendous inner conflict, distress, fear and anxiety”.

If indeed the Church does not allow sex that will not lead to procreation, then you would have problem in justifying NFP.

There is much leap in the understanding of sex by the Church today from the draconian interpretation of sex of the old days which can roughly equate sexual pleasure as evil. If matrimony is a gift from God surely sex is too – for the pleasure of the married couple and of course such union may lead to procreation.

There is a joke among us when we discuss about Christian sexuality that Catholic disallow sex on Thursday because we should remember the passion of Christ.
On Friday we should respect the crucifixion and therefore should spend the day repenting and should not enjoy.
Saturday was Easter vigil, therefore the couple should pray together with all the faithfuls and so no sex.
Sunday was Jesus resurrection – no sex too as we celebrate this victorious day.
That would leave Monday and Tuesday during which the wife has her period. So no sex during menstruation.
That would leave Wednesday. But hey, Wednesday is Ash Wednesday which is such solemn day. So no sex.

So married couple of the old days might not have sex at all throughout the week because of the restriction.

Sure, that’s an exaggeration but that’s not the spirit of sex in Christian marriage.

I can understand why you mention the moral of the story in Elizabeth but surely that is separated from the issue here.

God bless.

 

[Reuben_J]

Correction: the quote should belong to GodLovesTheSpek.

 

[FiberZilla]

Young couples who are trying to have children are the only people who are able to experience the fullness of sexual intimacy without some level of anxiety or distraction. For the rest of us, making sure that the risk of pregnancy remains ever present by banning all forms of contraception regardless of the reason is a back door way for the authorities to keep the lid on sexual pleasure.

Consider the woman who is at the end of her child bearing years and already has a young child with severe Downs Syndrome. According to the Catholic Church, if her husband uses condoms when they make love they will both go to hell. I’m sorry, but that is cruel and unbiblical.

 

[Reuben_J]

Please don’t think me as insensitive, prude or negative but I must ask why this Moral Theology Forum plays host to numerous topics of sexual discussion which I believe should belong in a separate Forum of itself. Am I bothered by this? Yes.

Some of the material topics in question should be censored or restricted to younger members here who have access to Catholic Answers Forum.

I just find some of the sexual topics in question disgusting in nature.

I realize that our devoted moderators here have busy job censoring material. I just think a little prudence as to the type of subject matter at hand doesn’t need to be published in this forum. Given some of the topic titles in question which are in plain sight doesn’t even have to clicked on without having a fairly good idea what is going to be discussed.

Or can the moderators give a warning at the top somewhere in this section of the Forum - for adult only or warning for person below 18, the material here might be offensive?

 

[GodLovesTheSpek]

I think you miss the spirit of the poster’s post in saying, “The Catholic Church does not forbid all non-procreative sexual expression even within the context of marriage” which is a response to another poster who said this, “The church on the other hand has gone to the other extreme and forbids all non-procreative sexual expression even within the context of marriage. Many early theologians labeled any sexual pleasure as evil and these attitudes are still common today. This sets up a no-win situation for many people resulting in tremendous inner conflict, distress, fear and anxiety”.

If indeed the Church does not allow sex that will not lead to procreation, then you would have problem in justifying NFP.

There is much leap in the understanding of sex by the Church today from the draconian interpretation of sex of the old days which can roughly equate sexual pleasure as evil. If matrimony is a gift from God surely sex is too – for the pleasure of the married couple and of course such union may lead to procreation.

There is a joke among us when we discuss about Christian sexuality that Catholic disallow sex on Thursday because we should remember the passion of Christ.
On Friday we should respect the crucifixion and therefore should spend the day repenting and should not enjoy.
Saturday was Easter vigil, therefore the couple should pray together with all the faithfuls and so no sex.
Sunday was Jesus resurrection – no sex too as we celebrate this victorious day.
That would leave Monday and Tuesday during which the wife has her period. So no sex during menstruation.
That would leave Wednesday. But hey, Wednesday is Ash Wednesday which is such solemn day. So no sex.

So married couple of the old days might not have sex at all throughout the week because of the restriction.

Sure, that’s an exaggeration but that’s not the spirit of sex in Christian marriage.

I can understand why you mention the moral of the story in Elizabeth but surely that is separated from the issue here.

God bless.

Sex is not to be subjects of jokes or sports or whatever that which removes it from a Holy Union.

NFP is certainly a topic of debate as the intended desire is to manipulate the creation of life, but again, even with NFP the couple does not present an artificial obstacle. NFP isn’t 100% (some might counter condoms, etc. are not 100% but, they are artificial and the human will’s intention is not to create life).

 

[Reuben_J]

Sex is not to be subjects of jokes or sports or whatever that which removes it from a Holy Union.

So does that mean there are only two days a week where you can have sex with your wife?

NFP is certainly a topic of debate as the intended desire is to manipulate the creation of life, but again, even with NFP the couple does not present an artificial obstacle. NFP isn’t 100% (some might counter condoms, etc. are not 100% but, they are artificial and the human will’s intention is not to create life).

NFP is approved by the Church and I am Catholic. I have no issue with it.Couples who practice this definitely do with the intention of enjoying sex knowing that the likelihood of procreation is minimal but at the same time do not transgress the commandment of the Church.

The different between NFP and artificial contraception is that there is no alteration in the former and there is in the latter. And that disallowed by the Church.

 

[GodLovesTheSpek]

So does that mean there are only two days a week where you can have sex with your wife?

NFP is approved by the Church and I am Catholic. I have no issue with it.Couples who practice this definitely do with the intention of enjoying sex knowing that the likelihood of procreation is minimal but at the same time do not transgress the commandment of the Church.

The different between NFP and artificial contraception is that there is no alteration in the former and there is in the latter. And that disallowed by the Church.

Sex between validly married man and woman is a Holy Union. All that is Holy is good. Any day of the week is permissible for God’s gift of life. Enjoyment is part of the Holy Union. Abstinence would be a self-imposed discipline by the married couple.

I’m not against NFP either. Maybe I’m misreading it but I think your reply is similar to mine. I think there could be some question about the couple’s intent but ultimately they leave it up to God’s will and do not present an artificial obstacle.

Artificial contraception is not OK because it is a deliberate act of the person’s will to attempt to artificially circumvent God’s will with sinful pride.

 

[Reuben_J]

Sex between validly married man and woman is a Holy Union. All that is Holy is good. Any day of the week is permissible for God’s gift of life. Enjoyment is part of the Holy Union. Abstinence would be a self-imposed discipline by the married couple.

I’m not against NFP either. Maybe I’m misreading it but I think your reply is similar to mine. I think there could be some question about the couple’s intent but ultimately they leave it up to God’s will and do not present an artificial obstacle.

Artificial contraception is not OK because it is a deliberate act of the person’s will to attempt to artificially circumvent God’s will with sinful pride.

Let’s see. You were responding to this post,

Chessmane4e5:

The Catholic Church does not “forbid all non-procreative sexual expression even within the context of marriage.”

And your remark is,

GodLovesTheSpek:

I disagree and I think the The Catholic Church will also.

Going by your explanation it seems our positions on this subject are similar though you seem to lean more towards a conservative side. I can understand that too especially on the intention of the couple concerned, if they are not open to procreation.

My thought on this thread is that the Church has a long history of being very impractical on the matter of sexuality that she became irrelevant to the spirit of sex in marriage. This has been ridiculed by the opponents of the Church who saw her erred in this area but we have to commend her for her stance today. Truly we have come a long way in the matter and the understanding of sex.

What I wrote in my last post was not really a joke. The Church used to have so much prohibition and restriction on marriage sex a few centuries back that when we recall it now, it seems like a joke. The tragedy of all this is that it has put a certain psyche on marriage couples in their attitude towards sex. That it is something bad; something not to be talked about. Of course that attitude has created more problem than it sought to prevent. I have been working on this and I should know. I have seen many marriages went down on the rock and one of the major causes are sex.

As I mentioned earlier, sex as is Matrimony, is basically a gift from God. Therefore it is for the marriage couple legitimate good pleasure but at the same time they should be open to procreation.

One of the reasons why this topic has become so pervasive in this forum is because people have problem in understanding about holy sex that it may result in guilt, uncertainty or even sin. To brush off such posters as if they are making this forum into an explicit bedroom story-telling is rather inconsiderate and unfeeling. If there is really an abuse of the forum I am sure the moderators know what to do with it.

God bless.