Quesiton about scripture and the veil

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OnlyAmbrose

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So I was re-reading 1 Cor 11, and I can see how it can be interpreted in two different ways; one to show that women DO need to wear the veil, and one to show that women DO NOT so long as they have long hair. Bolded for emphasis.

*Any man who prays or prophesies with his head covered brings shame upon his head. But any woman who prays or prophesies with her head unveiled brings shame upon her head, for it is one and the same thing as if she had had her head shaved.

For if a woman does not have her head veiled, she may as well have her hair cut off. But if it is shameful for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, then she should wear a veil.

A man, on the other hand, should not cover his head, because he is the image and glory of God, but woman is the glory of man. For man did not come from woman, but woman from man;nor was man created for woman, but woman for man; for this reason a woman should have a sign of authority on her head, because of the angels.

Woman is not independent of man or man of woman in the Lord. For just as woman came from man, so man is born of woman; but all things are from God. Judge for yourselves: is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head unveiled? **Does not nature itself teach you that if a man wears his hair long it is a disgrace to him, whereas if a woman has long hair it is her glory, because long hair has been given (her) for a covering? **

But if anyone is inclined to be argumentative, we do not have such a custom, nor do the churches of God.*

I can see it being argued that since God gave women long hair as a covering, they don’t need to use a veil to cover their heads during prayer. Any thoughts?

(As a note, I am firmly in favor of the veil, I’m just curious as to how this scripture plays out in the practice.)

Thanks for any replies! 🙂
 
Does not nature itself teach you that if a man wears his hair long it is a disgrace to him, whereas if a woman has long hair it is her glory, because long hair has been given (her) for a covering?
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I believe this passage is saying that even in the natural order woman has been given a natural covering. The Church goes however beyond the natural order. A veil is symbolic of submission of the Church, which she represents, to Christ. I wear a veil because I believe it pleases God.
 
i think it says that its not worth arguing over and that we have no prescribed practice on the matter.
 
The biggest problem is in understanding that there are issues which are disciplinary and not intrinsic to the Church. Issues which are culturally related can lose their significance in a different culture.

That does not preclude a different culture from changing to the point where the practice, previously not meaningful, can become so. But to simply bring in a discipline from one culture to another because “that’s the way we do it there” borderes on cultural elitism.

For a view of how the Pope looks at cultural issues, note his recent comments about evangelization in Asian countries.
 
Cathryn said:
I believe this passage is saying that even in the natural order woman has been given a natural covering. The Church goes however beyond the natural order. A veil is symbolic of submission of the Church, which she represents, to Christ.
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Very good explanation! To me wearing the veil is symbolic of my own personal submission to Him.🤷
 
For those ladies who wear the veil as a symbol of their submission to the Church: Do you submit to the Church’s teaching regarding veils? Here is a link that summarizes it very nicely.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=19141

I don’t want to appear to be asking a “trick question.” What I’m actually asking is this–do you agree that the Church has ruled that veils in Mass are not required for women, and therefore, the wearing of a head covering is a personal choice for women?
 
Cat said:
For those ladies who wear the veil as a symbol of their submission to the Church: Do you submit to the Church’s teaching regarding veils? Here is a link that summarizes it very nicely.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=19141

I don’t want to appear to be asking a “trick question.” What I’m actually asking is this–do you agree that the Church has ruled that veils in Mass are not required for women, and therefore, the wearing of a head covering is a personal choice for women?
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Are you trying to take a big paddle to stir this pot?🤷
 
Cat said:
For those ladies who wear the veil as a symbol of their submission to the Church: Do you submit to the Church’s teaching regarding veils? Here is a link that summarizes it very nicely.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=19141

I don’t want to appear to be asking a “trick question.” What I’m actually asking is this–do you agree that the Church has ruled that veils in Mass are not required for women, and therefore, the wearing of a head covering is a personal choice for women? I personally believe that all women should wear a veil in the presence of GOD and when praying. /quote]

You asked I answered. Until Holy Mother Church states this as a fact then it is up to the women.
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For those ladies who wear the veil as a symbol of their submission to the Church: Do you submit to the Church’s teaching regarding veils? Here is a link that summarizes it very nicely.
Click to expand...
I don’t believe anyone here said that the veil is a symbol of their submission to the Church. St. Paul doesn’t teach this. I’m a member of the Church, a member of the Body of Christ. According to St. Paul, woman represents the Church. The veil is a symbol of submission of the Church to Christ. I wear a veil as a symbol of my submission as a woman to Christ. As a Catholic I also submit to the authority of the Church, and believe the Church has the authority to make the veil a personal choice. I wear a veil because I believe it pleases God.
 
Cathryn said:
I don’t believe anyone here said that the veil is a symbol of their submission to the Church. St. Paul doesn’t teach this. I’m a member of the Church, a member of the Body of Christ. According to St. Paul, woman represents the Church. The veil is a symbol of submission of the Church to Christ. I wear a veil as a symbol of my submission as a woman to Christ. As a Catholic I also submit to the authority of the Church, and believe the Church has the authority to make the veil a personal choice. I wear a veil because I believe it pleases God.
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:yup:
 
It is a beautiful and venerable custom. In the Orthodox churchyard where my father lies, women ALWAYS cover their heads.

But lack of a veil should not become an excuse for not going to church.
 
bpbasilphx said:
It is a beautiful and venerable custom. In the Orthodox churchyard where my father lies, women ALWAYS cover their heads.

But lack of a veil should not become an excuse for not going to church.
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Amen. I ask the Holy Mother to cover me in her veil if I forget my covering.
 
bpbasilphx said:
It is a beautiful and venerable custom. In the Orthodox churchyard where my father lies, women ALWAYS cover their heads.

But lack of a veil should not become an excuse for not going to church.
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Such simple economia, Your Grace!
 
I do not know if in New Testament times a married Jewish woman shaved her head, but I do believe in more contemporary times that has been a practice with observant orthodox Jews. If that were the case in the days of Paul, it would make sense that married women would wear a head covering. Un-married women would still have their hair.
 
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