Question about a sexual intimacy problem

[VeritasLuxMea]

Don’t worry, not so explicit.

Here’s an age old problem: I (as husband) desire far more frequent sexual intimacy than my wife.

I’m not going to put a particular number on how often I would so desire, but suffice it to say that it would be plenty higher than my wife. We usually end up being sexually intimate 3 times a month, or so. I would like it if that were a lot higher.

HOWEVER, that is not really the problem. I can absolutely deal with the waiting, the lesser amount, etc.

The REAL problem that my wife and I have been discussing is related, but not the same.

Basically what’s happened is that I no longer try to “initiate” an encounter with her. This is because 9 times out of 10, I know she is going to turn it down. And when she turns it down, it stings me on a very deep level. Rationally, I know that she always loves me and she just has a lower sex drive than I do, but emotionally and on an instinctual level it just hurts. It hurts bad.

And so, I have not been initiating. I’ve been initiating less and less and now, finally, I am not initiating anymore. Since that has happened, here’s where I finally get to the heart of the problem: since that has happened, I have been having deep feelings of discontent.

I wish that I could better explain the emotions that I’ve been feeling, but I don’t know how. My wife and I have been talking about these feelings I’m having but it’s been tough to get down to the core of the matter. I think that it might be a kind of resentment. Like, she and only she gets to decide when we get the green light and I kinda feel like: “maybe if I’m a good boy, I’ll get a cookie tonight!”

Sorry, I’m just trying to write it down, hoping that it will help me get to the heart of the matter. I guess it’s just that I feel like we’re not equal partners in our sexual intimacy because she gets to dictate it 100% of the time.

We’ve been working on how to get around this - and we just can’t find a way. Help!

Some notes:

-I’m very aware of her needs within the relationship for romance and such, and being a born romantic, this is never a problem for me. I’m always doing little gestures - roses, surprise nights out on the town, little love notes and “I miss you!” texts and so on. We have both agreed that our relationship is not lacking in emotional intimacy, so to speak.

-The sex, according to her, is great. So it is not a matter of it being un-pleasurable. It doesn’t hurt and she says she feels satisfied “99.9%” of the time. So there’s no problem there, she just doesn’t feel up to it as often.

-She has tried making sacrifices as far as giving it a shot even when not in the mood. The problem is that, when she “fakes it” so to speak, she feels like she is being dishonest with me. Also, when she does this, it tends to be so transparent that I can tell, and that turns me off so I cannot keep going with it.

-To our knowledge, there are no medical issues with either of us.

Wooooooooh, sorry to post all of that. I know it was a drudge to read. Does anyone have any advice for us? She was the one that suggested making this post, by the way. Because we would like some outside perspective.

 

[Falco]

My advice to your wife, as a wife myself, is this: A woman can have a whole range of responses to making love, from initiating a passionate encounter herself, to quietly welcoming her husband quite passively, to meet his need and enjoyment. Unless I feel unwell I do not turn my husband away, and though I may be almost passively engaged with him, I still greatly enjoy his enjoyment. So, sometimes he has a passionate wife, and sometimes a passive wife, but we almost always make love when he wants to. It is not necessary for a woman to climax (which can be exhausting if she is already tired), so if the husband is happy to have a variety of responses from his wife, loving is possible more often than if he wants red hot passion every time. After all, it is about love and bonding.

 

[Irishmom2]

.

Basically what’s happened is that I no longer try to “initiate” an encounter with her. This is because 9 times out of 10, I know she is going to turn it down. And when she turns it down, it stings me on a very deep level. Rationally, I know that she always loves me and she just has a lower sex drive than I do, but emotionally and on an instinctual level it just hurts. It hurts bad.

And so, I have not been initiating. I’ve been initiating less and less and now, finally, I am not initiating anymore. Since that has happened, here’s where I finally get to the heart of the problem: since that has happened, I have been having deep feelings of discontent.

-To our knowledge, there are no medical issues with either of us.

I am going to assume that you have told your wife how this hurts you emotionally? What was her response? You are correct that it sounds like she calls all the shots on when things happen. I really think you two need to have a talk about how this makes you feel, in addition to what she thinks a solution is.

But, if you are not going to initiate, it’s not going to happen at all, is it? So I don’t think you have a choice, as difficult as it is. By now, you should know when you think those times are when she may be more receptive than others. Perhaps limit yourself to those times. Since you say that you are emotionally intimate and still no response, your wife needs to be more transparent as to why she “rejects” you.

If she says she is tired, that might be a sign she actually is, or that medically she is a little off or lacking in something in her diet. I would suggest a checkup for her. It couldn’t hurt.

But you know, she just may have a lower level of need than you and there is really nothing she can do about that. I agree with Falco’s post though. Your wife can compromise a bit and “enjoy your enjoyment.” It can’t be all or nothing for either of you.

Talk, talk, talk, and pray about this. I wish both of you all the best.

 

[phoooiee]

I read an article a while ago about a situation like this- the advice given was to have the partner with the lower drive be the only one to initiate. The partner with the higher drive was supposed to never initiate, at least for a time. You might try that for a period of a month or so?

 

[PaulinVA]

I read an article a while ago about a situation like this- the advice given was to have the partner with the lower drive be the only one to initiate. The partner with the higher drive was supposed to never initiate, at least for a time. You might try that for a period of a month or so?

That builds up a tremendous amount of resentment.

Or, so I’ve heard.

 

[clem456]

Don’t worry, not so explicit.

Here’s an age old problem: I (as husband) desire far more frequent sexual intimacy than my wife.

I’m not going to put a particular number on how often I would so desire, but suffice it to say that it would be plenty higher than my wife. We usually end up being sexually intimate 3 times a month, or so. I would like it if that were a lot higher.

HOWEVER, that is not really the problem. I can absolutely deal with the waiting, the lesser amount, etc.

The REAL problem that my wife and I have been discussing is related, but not the same.

Basically what’s happened is that I no longer try to “initiate” an encounter with her. This is because 9 times out of 10, I know she is going to turn it down. And when she turns it down, it stings me on a very deep level. Rationally, I know that she always loves me and she just has a lower sex drive than I do, but emotionally and on an instinctual level it just hurts. It hurts bad.

And so, I have not been initiating. I’ve been initiating less and less and now, finally, I am not initiating anymore. Since that has happened, here’s where I finally get to the heart of the problem: since that has happened, I have been having deep feelings of discontent.

I wish that I could better explain the emotions that I’ve been feeling, but I don’t know how. My wife and I have been talking about these feelings I’m having but it’s been tough to get down to the core of the matter. I think that it might be a kind of resentment. Like, she and only she gets to decide when we get the green light and I kinda feel like: “maybe if I’m a good boy, I’ll get a cookie tonight!”

Sorry, I’m just trying to write it down, hoping that it will help me get to the heart of the matter. I guess it’s just that I feel like we’re not equal partners in our sexual intimacy because she gets to dictate it 100% of the time.

We’ve been working on how to get around this - and we just can’t find a way. Help!

Some notes:

-I’m very aware of her needs within the relationship for romance and such, and being a born romantic, this is never a problem for me. I’m always doing little gestures - roses, surprise nights out on the town, little love notes and “I miss you!” texts and so on. We have both agreed that our relationship is not lacking in emotional intimacy, so to speak.

-The sex, according to her, is great. So it is not a matter of it being un-pleasurable. It doesn’t hurt and she says she feels satisfied “99.9%” of the time. So there’s no problem there, she just doesn’t feel up to it as often.

-She has tried making sacrifices as far as giving it a shot even when not in the mood. The problem is that, when she “fakes it” so to speak, she feels like she is being dishonest with me. Also, when she does this, it tends to be so transparent that I can tell, and that turns me off so I cannot keep going with it.

-To our knowledge, there are no medical issues with either of us.

Wooooooooh, sorry to post all of that. I know it was a drudge to read. Does anyone have any advice for us? She was the one that suggested making this post, by the way. Because we would like some outside perspective.

Your wife and mine must be twins. Wow. This is exactly my marriage. We have dealt with unequal libidos our whole marriage. When we first married I was really hurt as my wife had not thought about sex for 2 weeks after our honeymoon.

Our whole marriage I have had a hard time dealing with this, I tend to take it as a rejection and a lack of love on her part. I have come to realize that is not the case though. She grew up in a matriarchy, her father had died when she was 14, there were 8 kids and 3 grandparents living in a small house, so “private time” for parents was not part of her reality growing up. I grew up just the opposite, in a small quiet family whose parents frequently shut the door. I guess God has a sense of humor in his matchmaking!

I have tried the cajoling and whining over the years, but that is not satisfying. I want her to be with me sexually out of desire, not duty. Unfortunately I drifted into pornography for a time which did not help matters at all. That is now in the past hopefully for good. I play plenty of attention to her, but she is happy with cuddling and talking etc… Once I started listening to what God was telling me, this is a good thing, because I needed to have my marital priorities straightened out.

I also gave up initiating sex. I got tired of the rejection. That will sometimes become a passive aggressive thing though, where I don’t admit I want sex, but am walking around angry anyway. She has learned to discern this pretty well, and will make the effort to get in the mood.

So long story short I have come to appreciate the prelimiaries a little better, these can sometimes lead to the whole meal, sometimes not. But I’ve learned that if I can just get her to the bed, get some conversation going and some holding and talking etc, more often than not, the bingo card fills up. If a couple cannot enjoy foreplay that can make life difficult, because a wife will begin to feel pressure to have it all ready to go when it’s not.

Sex is good for your health by the way. Both of you. And it is not good for a husband to go around angry and resentful, IF your needs are reasonable. There is a duty of love involved here also.

 

[Irishmom2]

And so, I have not been initiating. I’ve been initiating less and less and now, finally, I am not initiating anymore. Since that has happened, here’s where I finally get to the heart of the problem: since that has happened, I have been having deep feelings of discontent.

I read an article a while ago about a situation like this- the advice given was to have the partner with the lower drive be the only one to initiate. The partner with the higher drive was supposed to never initiate, at least for a time. You might try that for a period of a month or so?

It sounds like he already doing this. In all honesty, I don’t see how that can work either. The one with the lower drive decides that they never want to initiate anything and are happy that way. The other spouse is just miserable. It has to be a partnership.

 

[nova147]

Basically what’s happened is that I no longer try to “initiate” an encounter with her. This is because 9 times out of 10, I know she is going to turn it down. And when she turns it down, it stings me on a very deep level. Rationally, I know that she always loves me and she just has a lower sex drive than I do, but emotionally and on an instinctual level it just hurts. It hurts bad.

-She has tried making sacrifices as far as giving it a shot even when not in the mood. The problem is that, when she “fakes it” so to speak, she feels like she is being dishonest with me. Also, when she does this, it tends to be so transparent that I can tell, and that turns me off so I cannot keep going with it.

When DH and I were first married, we had this problem, but it was my libido that was higher. I also stopped initiating because of the emotional pain. Don’t be hard on yourself for this. Despite what you KNOW, your heart is made to hurt when you are rejected by your spouse. Your knowledge is what keeps you from acting like a spoiled child because you are hurting.

So, years have passed since we got married, and we have 4 children now. Not surprisingly, my libido isn’t what it used to be! So I have learned a bit about “sacrificing” when I’m not in the mood. I am pretty honest with DH when that is the case. It takes the pressure off of both of us, because I don’t have to pretend to be really into it (though I would never have sex with him if I actually wanted NOT to, which is different from not wanting to). Weird as it may seem, I find his efforts to help me climax when I’m not terribly interested to start with to be annoying, and therefore counter-productive. So I just let him know from the start and neither of us focuses on that aspect.

Perhaps you should consider “quickies”. I know they come with the connotation of a selfish man, but they have been helpful for DH and I in this busy, tired season of our lives. I’m more willing to participate when I know it will only be a short while. We’ve found that the occasional quickie makes me more likely to want “regular” encounters at other times (I’m sure that’s hormonal in some way). Obviously, this has to be something you are both ok with.

Praying for you both.

 

[Rico_S]

Wow. This is just all too familiar!! I can relate to so much of your story on so many levels.

I too started the whole, “I am not going to initiate” thing too as a way of altering my expectations. I figured that it wouldn’t hurt so bad if I wasn’t actually being rejected, and that I could do without that part of the relationship. But in the end, the rejection is still there…my desire to be with my wife did not wain…and my resentment for her lack of desire actually became worse. I do not recommend going that route.

I don’t have a quick fix here. I honestly think Falco had a very good perspective on things for you to consider. I will say that, for us, it has become a matter of commitment from both of us. I know there are things that I can do that will “fill her love tank” (as she likes to say) that I typically do not do. Things that make her feel loved and make her special. Now it sounds like you do not struggle with those things, so perhaps this won’t apply to your situation. But I can tell you that walking around with the resentment absolutely will negatively impact your interaction with your wife. I am simply unable to connect with my wife when I am full of anger and resentment over this issue. I have made the commitment to try and let go of that and I can honestly say it is very helpful (though very difficult for me).

Another thing that works great for us is flirting. Not just 10 minutes before we go to bed…but throughout the day or week. Sounds like you are great at being romantic (something I am terrible at), but I have found that fun, light hearted flirtling with texts, conversations, emails, touches, etc. keeps her more engaged and our relationship more connected and fun.

Anyway, not sure any of the advice is all that helpful, but I had to post after reading your thread. I can relate to so much of what you are talking about.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

This issue brought us close to at least separation. It is still a problem, we just aren’t engaging in solving it at the moment because my husband has also been tired and preoccupied and isn’t pushing as much.

The Sex Starved Marriage

This helps to understand some of the problem. It doesn’t solve the problem. For me, the problem really got out of hand after I went through a very early menopause at 40. That’s when the total mismatch began, but it got worse as we went through some very difficult times in our lives. I felt as though all he wanted me for was sex, since I was getting no other affirmation from him, and I shut down. There were things that we were used to doing in the bedroom that were not unitive or productive, and that started to bother me more and more. He was always making juvenile sexual jokes and groping me, and I just started to feel used and alienated. He didn’t understand this when I told him. Neither did he respond when I told him I need to feel that he loves me in other ways, not merely sexual, in order for me to respond to his sexual advances. When one of the spouses keeps getting to a dead end, it isn’t conducive to emotional or physical intimacy.

I don’t know what my husband’s problem is. I have told him outright that I need more romance, and he can’t produce it. He claims he doesn’t know how, that he’s stupid that way. That doesn’t wash, because he’s a very intelligent man who understands all sorts of other concepts in life. My belief is that he just doesn’t want to extend the effort. Maybe he thinks he shouldn’t have to…And in a way, he’d be right. I know it is my marital obligation to have sexual intimacy. But it sure would be nice to know that my husband hears my plea for more emotional intimacy and is trying to work on his side. I have pretty much given up on it, I really think he has quite a few narcissistic qualities so other people’s needs and desires are just not on his radar screen. I do the best I can under the circumstances, but there’s still a big mismatch.

To his credit, he has cooperated with my need to follow Church teaching on married marital intimacy. And that’s a big deal for him, because he doesn’t believe in it himself. It was very difficult for me to explain that to him, but I finally worked up the courage and did it. He doesn’t see any problem with what we’d been doing and doesn’t have any regrets for his own life, while I have many and feel tremendous regret and shame about my background, including our sexual past.

Just to give you some perspective. I know it’s not your situation.

 

[Mrs_V]

I think Falco’s post was very good. I also think that maybe you wife would benefit from reading it.

 

[manualman]

The best lesson here for the OP is “You aren’t alone.” It may be too far to say that it’s normal, but it certainly seems typical.

Being the logical engineer-type, I used to interrogate her about it. “How can you really enjoy it if you are only interested if 57 criteria all are satisfied first? You must not actually enjoy intimacy. Do you only crave CHOCOLATE when 57 situations all line up favorably? I DON’T THINK SO!”

That approach… didn’t work. Just so you know. I know, right? It’s totally logical! It should have fixed the whole thing. Women are so weird.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

The best lesson here for the OP is “You aren’t alone.” It may be too far to say that it’s normal, but it certainly seems typical.

Being the logical engineer-type, I used to interrogate her about it. “How can you really enjoy it if you are only interested if 57 criteria all are satisfied first? You must not actually enjoy intimacy. Do you only crave CHOCOLATE when 57 situations all line up favorably? I DON’T THINK SO!”

That approach… didn’t work. Just so you know. I know, right? It’s totally logical! It should have fixed the whole thing. Women are so weird.

Hahahahahaha!!!

We truly are.

:whacky::doh2::yup:

 

[nova147]

dBut it sure would be nice to know that my husband hears my plea for more emotional intimacy and is trying to work on his side.

Have you tried telling him specifically what “romance” means to you? OP, this might help your situation as well. Men are very concrete. I tell my husband things like “if you can help me around the house, I will have more energy and will feel happier, which makes me more inclined toward sex”. Other things too - for me, things like flirting throughout the day are helpful, where as compliments don’t work as well, though I know for many women that is wonderful. Marriage is such hard work!

 

[clem456]

It can be so difficult to accept people for who they are. After thinking about this for 20 years, I still find myself wondering why my wife would not want to have sex 3 times a week. Or now at our mid fifties, once or twice a week. (I am probably spoiled)
I mean, I find her attractive, why can’t that be mutual? She enjoyos it when she relaxes and lets it happen,so why wouldn’t she want that a lot??? It’s a mystery. She’s just not centered around pleasure.
I have to trust that she loves me even though we don’t share the same physical needs.

 

[The_Bucket]

Have you tried telling him specifically what “romance” means to you? OP, this might help your situation as well. Men are very concrete. I tell my husband things like “if you can help me around the house, I will have more energy and will feel happier, which makes me more inclined toward sex”. Other things too - for me, things like flirting throughout the day are helpful, where as compliments don’t work as well, though I know for many women that is wonderful. Marriage is such hard work!

That it is. Sometimes I don’t know what romance is. Truly I don’t. Oh I understand courting just fine. And whenever we can get away, I come up with good stuff. This past anniversary I surprised her by my sister coming over to watch the kids while I took her on a hike to a mountain she loves, had lunch up there, then took her to a winery, a nice dinner in a charming small town and a stay at a B&B. I know my stuff there!

It’s the day to day romantic stuff that doesn’t click. I always thought pitching in with housework was a thing guys can do to show effort. But my wife is not very good, honestly, with keeping a neat house. So that’s more like I’m keeping stress away instead of doing something nice. I think maybe stepping up and cooking sometimes might work. And I know for SURE that building or even putting things together is something she considers romantic or at least a turn-on. Something, you know, a man should do for his wife because he’s the man. I am, however, horrible at handyman work. Though when this blind squirrel finds a nut when it comes to that stuff, the results are good indeed.

 

[silicasandra]

…So I have learned a bit about “sacrificing” when I’m not in the mood. I am pretty honest with DH when that is the case. It takes the pressure off of both of us, because I don’t have to pretend to be really into it (though I would never have sex with him if I actually wanted NOT to, which is different from not wanting to). Weird as it may seem, I find his efforts to help me climax when I’m not terribly interested to start with to be annoying, and therefore counter-productive. So I just let him know from the start and neither of us focuses on that aspect.

Perhaps you should consider “quickies”. I know they come with the connotation of a selfish man, but they have been helpful for DH and I in this busy, tired season of our lives. I’m more willing to participate when I know it will only be a short while. We’ve found that the occasional quickie makes me more likely to want “regular” encounters at other times (I’m sure that’s hormonal in some way). Obviously, this has to be something you are both ok with.

Praying for you both.

I agree with this. I’ve been really sick this pregnancy and so when DH asks and I’m not in the mood, I don’t want an hour of him trying to get me in the mood before he gets to the part he’s really interested in. I honestly don’t mind the occasional “quickie.” I know they are satisfying for him and that makes it satisfying for me, too. (I appreciate that he wants me to have a good time, but I am starting to help him understand that I don’t need that absolutely every time, which is probably part of the reason I don’t ask him as often as he asks me.)

Sometimes, though, when I really don’t feel like I can say “yes” (i.e. I think there’s a good chance I will puke right in the middle of things ) I will ask if he minds postponing - later in the day, tomorrow, etc and we set a time, not some vague “later” that never happens to arrive. It may not be terribly romantic, but couples schedule dates, don’t they? In some ways that actually helps me because I can start “warming up” much earlier, instead of feeling surprised and “expected to perform” at the drop of a hat. Before we had kids, I could usually do that pretty easily (and if not we had the time to get me “warmed up”). But this way I start making an effort several hours before anything starts and I end up looking forward to it. Your wife would need to agree to try that and if she did, I would suggest letting her set the time for the “date.”

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Have you tried telling him specifically what “romance” means to you? OP, this might help your situation as well. Men are very concrete. I tell my husband things like “if you can help me around the house, I will have more energy and will feel happier, which makes me more inclined toward sex”. Other things too - for me, things like flirting throughout the day are helpful, where as compliments don’t work as well, though I know for many women that is wonderful. Marriage is such hard work!

Oh, yes, I’ve told him and told him and told him. I have given him books to read. I’ve cried. I’ve pouted. I’ve written him notes and even letters. I’ve done everything but tattoo it on his forehead. He just plays dumb.

 

[mommamaree]

I am the one that starts to get antsy when it has been more than a couple of days, not necessarily due to my own level of desire, but because I know how important that physical connection is to my husband and our marriage.
I like the idea of the quickie, but in practice it made me feel dirty and used. So we don’t do that in our marriage right now, but that is something that for me is a goal to work toward. Especially since women are capable of multiple climaxes in the same lovemaking experience, whereas men are usually one-and-done. It seems fair to me to offer my husband that option if he is interested but I don’t feel great physically or emotionally. However, I cannot do that due to my personal background (details very personal and not relevant here).
If I am physically capable of engaging in intercourse (let’s face it, if I am nursing all night or swollen and sore with pregnancy, capability may not always be assumed) then I let my husband try. He is so sweet. He says things like “Do you want me to make love to you?” or “Can I make you feel good?” That is his way of saying he is interested but doesn’t want to pressure me. The way he says it, or the look in his eyes, or even the caress that accompanies the question; all of these things put me in a safe place emotionally. I feel safe being vulnerable, I feel prepared to surrender and receive, I even feel excited.
But years ago, before we converted to Catholicism, he was petulant and demanding. He withheld affection, sometimes on purpose and sometimes unconsciously. He would get angry inside and become passive-aggressive. And this would begin within 48 hours of me “giving it to him”! It was horrible. I had to perform for him, and yet I had to show how much I liked it, too, or he would get really angry at me. I don’t think husbands always realize that they are emotionally (and physically) abusing their wives with this behavior. My husband certainly thought that he was treating me well. It wasn’t until he began studying things written by theologians about BJPII’s Theology of the Body, that he realized his focus was all on taking from me what he thought I owed him, rather than giving to me what he owed me. It was a lightbulb moment. His ignorance (and that is all it was, just ignorance, not malice) was revealed and he took serious and drastic steps to fix things between us. He stopped demanding, or even asking anything of me. Instead he started offering himself and finding more and more ways to give to me physically, which always somehow ended up leading to a fun bedtime for both of us. The results, for us, were practically instantaneous, like night and day. He learned to receive through giving, and I learned to give by receiving.
OP, really look into your thoughts, your motivations, your behaviors. See if perhaps a similar dynamic is accidentally playing out without your awareness. With my husband, he told me that he was dropping any sense of entitlement. He had been extracting his own pleasure with the result of deep pain for me for too long. He said it was time to go the other way for a while, to restore the balance. He still offered, facing those possible no’s, but he did it with an eye toward pleasing me and restrained his own desire. He did everything he could to bridle his desire, and use it as motivation to love me. And it worked.
I hope I haven’t been offensive. I want to help, and I thought maybe sharing my experience could be eye-opening and encouraging.

 

[clem456]

Blessed JP2 is such a blessing for married couples. Reading Love and Responsibility and TOB helped me enormously also.