Question about all versus many in Eucharistic prayer

[camille2]

Hello.

My husband and I attend a very middle-of-the-road large, subruban Catholic church. This past weekend, because of family committments with our children, we needed to find a different mass time, and ended up at a very traditional, older Catholic church. Many things were different, but the words of the prayers were the same - until the words of the Institution. When blessing the cup, the priest said, “Take this, all of you, and drink from it:
this is the cup of my blood, the blood of the new and everlasting covenant. It will be shed for you and for many so that sins may be forgiven. Do this in memory of me.” (My emphasis added)

I tried to find out why he said “many” instead of “all” and all I came up with was that some people believe that the “all” in the Novus Ordo mass is an incorrect translation. It seems odd to me, though, that the rest of the Novus Ordo mass would be intact and only this word changed by this priest.

Does anyone have any insight? (I posed this question to “Ask an Apologist” as well, but I’m too impatient for their answer, lol)

Also, this is posing a theological debate for me now, too - as Catholics, do we believe that Christ died for all? Or for many? (My understanding is that the Latin understanding of the word “many” is closer to our American English word “all”) And, is this something that we’re going to hear in the newest mass translation??

 

[Monica4316]

Hi,

the correct translation from the Latin is “for many”. The translation in the Novus Ordo is the incorrect one. But - a new English translation of the Novus Ordo is coming out in Advent 2011, and it will have a new Eucharistic prayer saying “for many”

the reason it’s “for many” and not “for all”, is because there are people who reject Jesus, so the redemption He accomplished for them does not get applied to them. “For many” is more theologically correct, and faithful to the all the other older versions of the Mass, so imo it is good that they are changing this soon.

God bless

 

[camille2]

Hi,

the correct translation from the Latin is “for many”. The translation in the Novus Ordo is the incorrect one. But - a new English translation of the Novus Ordo is coming out in Advent 2011, and it will have a new Eucharistic prayer saying “for many”

the reason it’s “for many” and not “for all”, is because there are people who reject Jesus, so the redemption He accomplished for them does not get applied to them. “For many” is more theologically correct, and faithful to the all the other older versions of the Mass, so imo it is good that they are changing this soon.

God bless

Thank you for your reply.

I understand that “for many” may be the more correct translation, but I found it confusing that it was being used before the rest of the translation. I’m just assuming it was a slip? Or are the priests permitted to start implementing the new translation? It’s not happening at our church yet.

Theologically, I’ve always assumed that Jesus died for all, but that his redemption is only fully applied to the faithful believers. It seems elitist to assume that he only died for those who come to believe. I prefer to think that his redemption is for all, but it is part of our free will to choose to accept it. If a person rejects the gift, that doesn’t mean that the gift wasn’t intended for them.

 

[Luke65]

Our Lord Jesus died both “for many” (e.g. Mark 14:24) and “for all” (e.g. Romans 6:10). But we have to pay attention to context. The context here is the Holy Eucharist. And not all, but only “many” have the Eucharist available to them, while “all” have Christ’s salvific grace available to them (Titus 2:11). And, as Monica pointed out, the Latin says “for many” (pro multis) because it is quoting the Scriptures from the Last Supper. So the new translation corrects that error. God bless.

 

[puzzleannie]

Hello.I tried to find out why he said “many” instead of “all” and all I came up with was that some people believe that the “all” in the Novus Ordo mass is an incorrect translation. It seems odd to me, though, that the rest of the Novus Ordo mass would be intact and only this word changed by this priest.

the new translation of the Mass in English will have the phrase “for many” because that is an exact translation of the Latin.

this version should not be used until Advent 2011 however

 

[camille2]

Our Lord Jesus died both “for many” (e.g. Mark 14:24) and “for all” (e.g. Romans 6:10). But we have to pay attention to context. The context here is the Holy Eucharist. And not all, but only “many” have the Eucharist available to them, while “all” have Christ’s salvific grace available to them (Titus 2:11). And, as Monica pointed out, the Latin says “for many” (pro multis) because it is quoting the Scriptures from the Last Supper. So the new translation corrects that error. God bless.

Thank you, that was a very helpful clarification.

I’m certain that as the new mass translation is implemented I will again have questions.

I appreciate all of the responses.

 

[MarcoPolo]

The verbiage “all/many” may only be a problem in modern English. If you read through the text of Romans 5:12-19, you will see Paul switch interchangeably between “all” or “many” referring to those for whom Christ died. e.g. “many” (polloi) in 5:19; and “all” (pantav) in 5:18. “Many” can be a theological or poetical term to mean “everyone.”

 

[Evan]

Benedict XVI claims that, in English, both translations are correct. Because there is no good translation of the Latin. The best would be a long winded explanation thrown into the middle of the words of institution, but for some reason the Church has rejected this translation.

I think the comments by the Pope are in his book ‘Called to Communion’.