Question about Animals.

[Geeksftw]

Here’s something interesting I had just thought of.

Animals have souls just as much as we do and the concept of a heaven for animals has been proposed over the years but Animals sin just as much as we do right? You have homosexual animals, animals that copulate with other animals, even animals that copulate with humans for god sake! Do animals get a “free ride” into heaven? I mean they would obviously be completely oblivious to god or the concept of god or the glory of Jesus.

If it’s true that there is no heaven or anything for animals and their deaths are eternal oblivion what happens to their souls? Then another question arises, why is the human race superior to animals? I realize only god can answer these questions and he may, never tell me/us but it seems so unfair! That we’re on top of all of god’s creations!

He created mars and there WAS life on there at one point. It’s scientifically proven, we’re superior to them? You also can’t convince me that we’re alone in the universe. God has created other beings and perhaps other humans. What makes us superior to them? We’ll never know but it’s interesting to speculate. If this is in the wrong section, I apologize.

 

[1ke]

Animals have souls just as much as we do

Not sure where you “heard” this, but not from any Church source as this is not Catholic teaching. Animals (and plants) have material souls. Material souls cease to exist at death. People are the only material creatures made in the image and likeness of God, that is with a spiritual soul endowed with intellect and free will that continues to exist after death.

and the concept of a heaven for animals has been proposed over the years

I’m sure this idea has been proposed, but not by the Catholic Church. People and angels enjoy the beatific vision (i.e. heaven) as they are pure spirit (angels) and spiritual souls (people).

but Animals sin just as much as we do right?

Animals have neither intellect nor free will. They have only instinct. They do not sin.

You have homosexual animals, animals that copulate with other animals, even animals that copulate with humans for god sake! Do animals get a “free ride” into heaven? I mean they would obviously be completely oblivious to god or the concept of god or the glory of Jesus.

Mistaken idea regarding the fundamental nature of animals leads to many other nonsensical ideas.

If it’s true that there is no heaven or anything for animals and their deaths are eternal oblivion what happens to their souls?

Material souls cease at death.

Then another question arises, why is the human race superior to animals?

Because God made man alone in his image. Made in God’s image means with a spiritual soul endowed with intellect and will.

He created mars and there WAS life on there at one point. It’s scientifically proven, we’re superior to them? You also can’t convince me that we’re alone in the universe. God has created other beings and perhaps other humans. What makes us superior to them? We’ll never know but it’s interesting to speculate. If this is in the wrong section, I apologize.

Sigh.

 

[Lochias]

Not sure where you “heard” this, but not from any Church source as this is not Catholic teaching. Animals (and plants) have material souls. Material souls cease to exist at death. People are the only material creatures made in the image and likeness of God, that is with a spiritual soul endowed with intellect and free will that continues to exist after death.

I’m sure this idea has been proposed, but not by the Catholic Church. People and angels enjoy the beatific vision (i.e. heaven) as they are pure spirit (angels) and spiritual souls (people).

Animals have neither intellect nor free will. They have only instinct. They do not sin.

Mistaken idea regarding the fundamental nature of animals leads to many other nonsensical ideas.

Material souls cease at death.

Because God made man alone in his image. Made in God’s image means with a spiritual soul endowed with intellect and will.

Sigh.

There is much debate on whether or not animals that we know will be with us in God’s creation at the end of time. Scripture and history support the idea, from many angles, for what that’s worth.

 

[Bookcat]

Remember it is not just a question of heaven.

But of “new heaven and new earth”…

So could God create animals for such? (or re-create some too?)

We do not know - but perhaps such will be the case.

But eye has not seen and ear has not heard…

 

[GEddie]

Whether animal souls can survive death, or be reinstated beyond it, will be debated the day the Earth melts down.

The Scriptures and the Church have both left this issue open.

But even if they do, animals cannot sin. Sin requires a conscience, which like our cognitive mind, is a function of our spiritual (human) soul.

Whatever animals do is a result of their natural instinct, which is God given, and so cannot be sin. Only we as human souls (Neshamah) are called to overcome natural instinct.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Geeksftw]

I see you think I’m ignorant, that’s interesting. I have heard of this idea in Christianity though somewhere also, I’ve also heard of NDE’s of faithful Christians who have seen their dead pets in heaven while there was no brain activity at all. And if their dead pets went to heaven, we go back to the same question.

You didn’t give an explanation of why you thought I was ignorant about the planets. The book of Genesis doesn’t just cover the human race, it describes other planets being made as well and maybe you’re incapable of thinking outside the box but even you cannot deny the existence of the planets and that they were made for a purpose. They’re not just there because they’re “pretty to look at”. Even if you openly deny that there was life on mars despite major Scientific evidence.

I forget who said it but the quote “Science without religion is lame but religion without science is blind”

it makes perfect sense and the two go together imo.

Anyway, part of what you said made sense but god also created the animals and the planets in his image as well though, I don’t disagree with all of it.

 

[John_of_Woking]

God has a capital G. 1ke answers you well

 

[GEddie]

There is no evidence for life on Mars; if there were, it would be trumpeted to the world, seeing as how hungry the world is for news of alien life.

Which doesn’t mean no life is there, but it is not discovered at the present time.

ITASM, we are not in any way ready to interact with alien life, and so God may not allow us to discover it for many generations yet. We aren’t even doing that good a job with our fellow human beings!

ICXC NIKA

 

[ClearWater]

Here’s something interesting I had just thought of.

Animals have souls just as much as we do and the concept of a heaven for animals has been proposed over the years but Animals sin just as much as we do right? You have homosexual animals, animals that copulate with other animals, even animals that copulate with humans for god sake! Do animals get a “free ride” into heaven? I mean they would obviously be completely oblivious to god or the concept of god or the glory of Jesus.

If it’s true that there is no heaven or anything for animals and their deaths are eternal oblivion what happens to their souls? Then another question arises, why is the human race superior to animals? I realize only god can answer these questions and he may, never tell me/us but it seems so unfair! That we’re on top of all of god’s creations!

He created mars and there WAS life on there at one point. It’s scientifically proven, we’re superior to them? You also can’t convince me that we’re alone in the universe. God has created other beings and perhaps other humans. What makes us superior to them? We’ll never know but it’s interesting to speculate. If this is in the wrong section, I apologize.

Well, angels are above us, the Blessed Virgin Mary, but yes, God created us in his own image and likeness.

We’re told that we have a very limited view of everything, on account of our consciousness.

Are we, piece of dust, going to say we know more about everything than our Creator, who had the intelligence and all the rest to Create all life, the universe, and everything?
Let’s give him the benefit of the doubt on this one.

 

[boomerang]

Whether animal souls can survive death, or be reinstated beyond it, will be debated the day the Earth melts down.
ICXC NIKA

Both of my parents and my niece had visitations from their dead dogs on the same day the (two) dogs died. All three of these visitations happened independently and each of them was afraid to tell the others for a long lime for fear that they would be perceived as crazy! But it really did happen. I don’t know what was going on in that house. Bizarre.

 

[Glomung]

Plants and animals are a beloved part of God’s creation just as much as we are.
He keeps all of them, God has quite a zoo.

 

[Lochias]

Both of my parents and my niece had visitations from their dead dogs on the same day the (two) dogs died. All three of these visitations happened independently and each of them was afraid to tell the others for a long lime for fear that they would be perceived as crazy! But it really did happen. I don’t know what was going on in that house. Bizarre.

My Mom had visitations from a beloved collie that died not long before a messy divorce. She felt the dog jump on onto the bed at night to be with her as she fell asleep alone, for a week. After that, she heard a single bark one night from the window underneath her bedroom, and no more visits.

Plants and animals are a beloved part of God’s creation just as much as we are.
He keeps all of them, God has quite a zoo.

We certainly know that God doesn’t make throw-away junk. I’m inclined to agree with you.

 

[boomerang]

My Mom had visitations from a beloved collie that died not long before a messy divorce. She felt the dog jump on onto the bed at night to be with her as she fell asleep alone, for a week. After that, she heard a single bark one night from the window underneath her bedroom, and no more visits.

Wow! :bighanky:

 

[Geeksftw]

My Mom had visitations from a beloved collie that died not long before a messy divorce. She felt the dog jump on onto the bed at night to be with her as she fell asleep alone, for a week. After that, she heard a single bark one night from the window underneath her bedroom, and no more visits.

We certainly know that God doesn’t make throw-away junk. I’m inclined to agree with you.

This is off the topic on Animals but my sister had a similar experience with souls of the departed. She was told when she was seventeen years old that she would be unable to ever have children. I blamed myself for it for so many years as I was violent with her the previous
year in that “area”. I still to this day haven’t forgiven myself for that sin.

Anyway, to everyone’s surprise she found herself pregnant (pre marital ughh but they were at least engaged and were making wedding preparations at the time of conception). Shortly after her pregnancy she saw a woman in our hallway, I was in the hallway when my Sister supposedly saw the ghost and I saw nothing. The spirit would only reveal herself to my sister. She thought it was my mother and thought nothing of it but for a whole week she saw this spirit and she felt comforted and then it mysteriously disappeared.

A few years later after my niece was a couple years old my grandmother gave my mom a picture and my sister seen the picture and she asked mom “Who is this woman? She was in our hallway when I was pregnant telling me that everything was going to be okay”

And do you know who that woman was? Our great grandmother. Neither I or my sister have ever seen her in the course of our lives as she passed when my mother was around seven years old. We’ve never seen a picture of her before, never even really heard stories of her and her life. Now how can my sister have possibly seen this woman in our hallway if it wasn’t her spirit? She died long before we were even thought of. She couldn’t have imagined her because we’ve never seen a picture of her before. It really was my grandmother and for some reason she came back from the dead to comfort my sister and tell her that her pregnancy was going to go well.

Maybe souls are allowed to temporarily leave heaven to help the living? Your dog wanted to help you clearly and this only proves that dogs go to heaven too. Now were back on the topic of animals. If Animals do go to heaven, do they get free rides since they’re oblivious to gods word? Or how exactly is a animals life judged?

 

[thistle]

This is off the topic on Animals but my sister had a similar experience with souls of the departed. She was told when she was seventeen years old that she would be unable to ever have children. I blamed myself for it for so many years as I was violent with her the previous
year in that “area”. I still to this day haven’t forgiven myself for that sin.

Anyway, to everyone’s surprise she found herself pregnant (pre marital ughh but they were at least engaged and were making wedding preparations at the time of conception). Shortly after her pregnancy she saw a woman in our hallway, I was in the hallway when my Sister supposedly saw the ghost and I saw nothing. The spirit would only reveal herself to my sister. She thought it was my mother and thought nothing of it but for a whole week she saw this spirit and she felt comforted and then it mysteriously disappeared.

A few years later after my niece was a couple years old my grandmother gave my mom a picture and my sister seen the picture and she asked mom “Who is this woman? She was in our hallway when I was pregnant telling me that everything was going to be okay”

And do you know who that woman was? Our great grandmother. Neither I or my sister have ever seen her in the course of our lives as she passed when my mother was around seven years old. We’ve never seen a picture of her before, never even really heard stories of her and her life. Now how can my sister have possibly seen this woman in our hallway if it wasn’t her spirit? She died long before we were even thought of. She couldn’t have imagined her because we’ve never seen a picture of her before. It really was my grandmother and for some reason she came back from the dead to comfort my sister and tell her that her pregnancy was going to go well.

Maybe souls are allowed to temporarily leave heaven to help the living? Your dog wanted to help you clearly and this only proves that dogs go to heaven too. Now were back on the topic of animals. If Animals do go to heaven, do they get free rides since they’re oblivious to gods word? Or how exactly is a animals life judged?

Animals lives are not judged. Animals cannot sin. Animals do not have immortal souls. They have material souls which cease to exist when they die.

 

[TK421]

@Geeks:

There is no definitive answer to this question, however there are some theological truths for us to consider. One is that God seems to glorify those beings which have the capacity to love Him by their own volition. The other is, like you said, that such beings have the capacity to sin. We are given no revelation about animals (currently) having such capacity, and animals do not possess the rational soul that a person possesses. In their present being, they are amoral creatures.

This does not exclude the possibility of some further, unknown glory yet coming upon them, perhaps beyond the present creation of this world. Setting aside any sentimental attachments to pets, the idea of livings souls being created only for them to never exist again a little bit later is something that (speculatively) seems rather underwhelming, which gives me the impression that there is more for us to discover concerning the wider breadth of creation.

Extraterrestrial life is also something that is a theologically valid possibility, including the idea of there being other rational beings, perhaps even unfallen rational beings. This is something else that remains hidden to us.

 

[Lochias]

Animals lives are not judged. Animals cannot sin. Animals do not have immortal souls. They have material souls which cease to exist when they die.

That’s one line of thought, yes. The Church has not ruled one way or the other, why are you trying to do it for them?

 

[thistle]

That’s one line of thought, yes. The Church has not ruled one way or the other, why are you trying to do it for them?

The Church teaches that humans are ordered to a supernatural life. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to realise that means humans have been singled out by God. If it applied to animals the Church would have said so. By default it means it is not the case.

 

[boomerang]

The Church teaches that humans are ordered to a supernatural life. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to realise that means humans have been singled out by God. If it applied to animals the Church would have said so. By default it means it is not the case.

My opinion is that all living things have a soul or spirit. Even bacteria and algae. The soul or spirit, possessing an energy, cannot be extinguished unless God orders it. When a living thing dies it’s soul/spirit goes somewhere. I think the soul of living creatures is commensurate with the type of creature it is. Simple creatures have the simplest souls. Complex creatures have more complex souls. Our souls are the highest order, the type of soul that can commune with God and can go be with Him after death. We don’t know where non-human souls go. In this life, we can only know where human souls go. Perhaps we will know more in the next life.

 

[thistle]

My opinion is that all living things have a soul or spirit. Even bacteria and algae. The soul or spirit, possessing an energy, cannot be extinguished unless God orders it. When a living thing dies it’s soul/spirit goes somewhere. I think the soul of living creatures is commensurate with the type of creature it is. Simple creatures have the simplest souls. Complex creatures have more complex souls. Our souls are the highest order, the type of soul that can commune with God and can go be with Him after death. We don’t know where non-human souls go. In this life, we can only know where human souls go. Perhaps we will know more in the next life.

Because plants and animals have material souls they don’t go anywhere. When the plant or animal dies these souls cease to exist.

Here is also a good Catholic Answers response.
catholic.com/quickquestions/do-animals-have-souls-like-human-beings