Question about anime and light novel reading

[zeldamagic]

I have been desperately wanting to watch an anime but there is currently no legal way to watch it. However, it will likely be released on DVD in the future. Is it a sin to watch it illegally but support the company by buying the DVDs when they come out? Also I was reading a very good light novel series but there is no way to read it without reading the translations online since it was never released in America. Would it be a sin to continue reading it? I’m curious about Catholic opinions on this.

 

[Bonnie]

I don’t have an answer for your first question, but as for the second - you can’t get the book in this country, if you could you would buy it, so I don’t see a problem with reading it on-line.

 

[SuperLuigi]

I have been desperately wanting to watch an anime but there is currently no legal way to watch it. However, it will likely be released on DVD in the future. Is it a sin to watch it illegally but support the company by buying the DVDs when they come out? Also I was reading a very good light novel series but there is no way to read it without reading the translations online since it was never released in America. Would it be a sin to continue reading it? I’m curious about Catholic opinions on this.

What you’re basically saying is you’re going to take something with the intention of paying back later.

I would almost have to say there would be sin at the instant of the taking, and once proper restitution is made, that may negate the sin, but there may also be the sin of presumption, or presuming upon Gods mercy in that sense.

It may not be as bad as taking with no intent to make restitution, but a sin is a sin.

 

[God_I_Love]

I have been desperately wanting to watch an anime but there is currently no legal way to watch it. However, it will likely be released on DVD in the future. Is it a sin to watch it illegally but support the company by buying the DVDs when they come out? Also I was reading a very good light novel series but there is no way to read it without reading the translations online since it was never released in America. Would it be a sin to continue reading it? I’m curious about Catholic opinions on this.

Remember that the spirit of the law takes priority over the letter. In your case, your intention is in line with the spirit of the law, which is to protect the producers from loss. So I would say go ahead and watch it; provided you do purchase the item later.

The second one the same logic applies. The producers, had they wished to make money off of it from American/English consumers, would have made an official translation available to purchase. They did not so that means they are not looking at you as a source of profit or loss.

 

[zeldamagic]

The second one the same logic applies. The producers, had they wished to make money off of it from American/English consumers, would have made an official translation available to purchase. They did not so that means they are not looking at you as a source of profit or loss.

Ah that makes sense. I’m just a bit unsure if it’s okay to see them for free if people in Japan have to pay for something I don’t however.

 

[Bonnie]

Ah that makes sense. I’m just a bit unsure if it’s okay to see them for free if people in Japan have to pay for something I don’t however.

If you feel strongly enough about it, you could send some money to the producers.

 

[suko]

I have been desperately wanting to watch an anime but there is currently no legal way to watch it. However, it will likely be released on DVD in the future. Is it a sin to watch it illegally but support the company by buying the DVDs when they come out?

Being part of a (Catholic) Christian means doing our best to follow the rules of the country that we reside in, whether we like it or not (and I know it can be difficult sometimes - I’m an anime fanatic like yourself so I can understand), so long as it isn’t unjust and conflicting with our faith. It’s good to keep in mind that certain laws were put into place for a just reason.

Furthermore, illegal streaming sites generally:

1. Do not bother to follow the rules
2. They do not have to give a single cent back to the anime studios
3. Do not ask for permission to obtain the license to legally stream shows - like CR (Crunchyroll) does ~ which costs them a lot of money
4. illegally rip the shows from legal streaming sites such as CR
5. Some illegal sites even make money from their illegal site
6. And on a whole, are counter-productive to the industry since many people go to these sites instead of supporting legal streaming sites like CR or Funi that actually support the anime studios, which in turn, allows them to make more animes for us. From what I understand, many anime studios, sadly, in the past several years have had to lay off workers or file for bankruptcy for the very reason of illegal sites/piracy.

Crunchyroll has a bunch of articles of those that illegally uploaded anime/manga and got arrested for it: crunchyroll.com/newsfeed/tag/piracy.

So if u ask me, I don’t think it is right to support illegal sites that blatantly disregard just laws. And by choosing to go to one of these sites that willing do these kinds of things is like saying that one agrees with their illegal methods and that one supports them in what they’re doing.

Also, if one looks at the catechism, specifically on paragraph 2240: it states that Christians “obey the established laws” of their nation, except, as paragraph 2242 puts it:

The citizen is obliged in conscience not to follow the directives of civil authorities when they are contrary to the demands of the moral order, to the fundamental rights of persons or the teachings of the Gospel. Refusing obedience to civil authorities, when their demands are contrary to those of an upright conscience, finds its justification in the distinction between serving God and serving the political community. “Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.” "We must obey God rather than men"

Having said all this, it is good to also remember to put anime in its proper context: a simple form of entertainment; although, a pretty good one I’ll admit , but it’s not, imo, something that calls for us to stand our ground and fight against civil authorities by disregarding the law to satisfy our desire for entertainment.

Also I was reading a very good light novel series but there is no way to read it without reading the translations online since it was never released in America. Would it be a sin to continue reading it?

Basically, many of the same reasoning applies here as well.

Anyway, I hope this helps u to better discern! God bless!

 

[edwest2]

I have been desperately wanting to watch an anime but there is currently no legal way to watch it. However, it will likely be released on DVD in the future. Is it a sin to watch it illegally but support the company by buying the DVDs when they come out? Also I was reading a very good light novel series but there is no way to read it without reading the translations online since it was never released in America. Would it be a sin to continue reading it? I’m curious about Catholic opinions on this.

If it’s not legal, don’t do it.

Reading unauthorized translations of foreign novels would be wrong.

Best,
Ed

 

[suko]

Reading unauthorized translations of foreign novels would be wrong.

Just to expand on this a little more, one of the things that makes unanuthorized translations illegal is due to article 8 of the Berne Convention, which states:

“Authors of literary and artistic works protected by this Convention shall enjoy the exclusive right of making and of authorizing the translation of their works throughout the term of protection of their rights in the original works.”

Currently, 168 countries have agreed to abide by this.

 

[zeldamagic]

Just to expand on this a little more, one of the things that makes unanuthorized translations illegal is due to article 8 of the Berne Convention, which states:

Currently, 168 countries have agreed to abide by this.

Wow, that’s a lot of countries. The thing is, that in the light novel series I was previously reading, I had been reading it to try and analyze a very fascinating character in it, so I could write about him on my blog. Would it okay to just use some parts of it for that? Also, the site that does the translations will immediately remove them once the novels come out in English. Would it be okay to buy the Japanese books and read the English translations online?

 

[suko]

The thing is, that in the light novel series I was previously reading, I had been reading it to try and analyze a very fascinating character in it, so I could write about him on my blog. Would it okay to just use some parts of it for that?

Personally, I think it would be fine to utilize the current knowledge that you’ve already gained from reading, into your blog or where ever else. Provided, of course, (if u live in the U.S) the info is being used in a “fair use” kinda way.

Also, the site that does the translations will immediately remove them once the novels come out in English. Would it be okay to buy the Japanese books and read the English translations online?

Remember, the sites that are doing these translations are doing something illegal (which could potentially get them in trouble), as it is very unlikely that they got the proper permission from the author to do their translations. Personally, I would not support (and by “support”, I basically mean going to their site and reading their translations or encouraging them) those that blatantly go around or ignore just laws. So no, imho, I don’t think it would be ok to do as u had described in your example. And believe me, I’ve thought about doing the same thing in the past myself since there were mangas and light novels that I wanted to read, too, but once I started to take my Catholic faith seriously, I just felt that I’m just making excuses so that I can get what I want, when in reality, the thing that I’m pursuing is not of grave importance, thus, not reason enough to support those that go around ignoring just laws. And that’s what it comes down to: when u have just laws in place for the common good, u basically need a just reason to go around them, and I just don’t see that when we talk about anime, manga or light novels since they are purely about entertainment purposes.

Probably one of the the best things that an anime-lovin’ Christian can do, is to start studying Japanese. That way, no translations are needed. However, I know it takes a long time to memorize all the different Kanji’s, and not many people have that kind of time. I do know, though, basically all the kana (only takes a few hours to learn those), and I always recommend other anime fans to study at least that since the investment is worth it. Trust me, it totally is! It’s too bad, though, the Kanji is something else that I know would take years to memorize. ^.^;

 

[zeldamagic]

I guess it would be fair use since I’m reviewing and discussing a character. I live in the US. Back to my earlier question, would it be okay to read the translations online if I buy the books? One of the replies said it would be the sin of presumption but I don’t really get how that would be the case. I would love to learn Japanese but I don’t know if I can at the moment.

I memorized an anime opening and I really want to listen to the full version of it online but I think that’s illegal. The DVD with it is $14 on Amazon but it doesn’t have any reviews. I don’t think it would be a good idea to buy it. What should I do? It’s an amazing song and I really want to listen to it.

 

[suko]

Back to my earlier question, would it be okay to read the translations online if I buy the books?

You see, buying the books still doesn’t negate the fact that if one were to read the translations online, one is still essentially supporting illegal activity. It really wouldn’t matter even if one bought a million (or even 1 billion) books to try to compensate, as the support of illegal activity is still existent. If u ask me, u need to prove that what the translation community is doing is for a just cause, enough to rebel against just copyright laws that have been put into place, and if u can’t, then one shouldn’t be participating or supporting them in their illegal activities.

I memorized an anime opening and I really want to listen to the full version of it online but I think that’s illegal. The DVD with it is $14 on Amazon but it doesn’t have any reviews. I don’t think it would be a good idea to buy it. What should I do? It’s an amazing song and I really want to listen to it.

Yeah, I’d say almost all full version songs of anime OPs found some place on the Internet are illegal, unless it is generally from a production/publishing company of the anime. I know I’ve seen at least one instance, though, with King Records (of Japan) that made a Youtube (promotional) music video with the entire beautiful ED song of the anime, Sundays w/out God, so it is possible. You just have to check the CD’s publishing company’s Youtube page, etc., to see if they have some kind of promotional music video as well.

Also, I’ll take it this particular OP song that u like isn’t available on iTunes or Amazon MP3?

But yeah, I can understand not wanting to spend $14 on potentially one song. I’ve bought many anime CDs in the past with just one good song (and some even with none, LOL). It always saddens me a bit when there’s a really good OP or ED song, but to buy it, I have to buy it on CD with a bunch of other songs that I’m just not interested in, and thus, I end up having to pay like $10 more than if that one song was available on iTunes.

Btw, if u don’t mind me asking, what is the name of this mysterious song that u like? ^.^

 

[God_I_Love]

You see, buying the books still doesn’t negate the fact that if one were to read the translations online, one is still essentially supporting illegal activity. It really wouldn’t matter even if one bought a million (or even 1 billion) books to try to compensate, as the support of illegal activity is still existent. If u ask me, u need to prove that what the translation community is doing is for a just cause, enough to rebel against just copyright laws that have been put into place, and if u can’t, then one shouldn’t be participating or supporting them in their illegal activities.

This line of reasoning regarding support for illegal or immoral activities, while noble, is impractical. As much as I would like to not support Halliburton or the oil industry (which engage in illegal/immoral activity) I can’t avoid it. My government kills people immorally… should I not pay taxes? The fact of the matter in this case is the OP wishes to read material that is copyright. To violate copyright would be wrong. Now an English translation made in a country and viewed in a country like Canada, which has laxer laws regarding copyright, would be fine. So the location is paramount if we are going to legalistically approach morality. Now the laws in America allow for the freedom of press, meaning I can take anything copyright and report on it, (unrelated but equally important) and educational fair use laws. So if someone provides an English translation for educational/fair use they are not breaking the law. Even if the translator did not intend for it, the end user (the OP) is allowed under these laws to use and read the material.

 

[suko]

As much as I would like to not support Halliburton or the oil industry (which engage in illegal/immoral activity) I can’t avoid it. My government kills people immorally… should I not pay taxes?

Respectfully, I disagree with your line of reasoning here. We can’t control what other things an industry does that are illegal/immoral, and when they do participate in such things, it’s those specific illegal/immoral activities that we can’t support, such as killing people. We may be able to still support the company in their neutral or good activities, of course.

Now an English translation made in a country and viewed in a country like Canada, which has laxer laws regarding copyright, would be fine.

Respectfully, I’ll have to disagree with u on that, as Canada, too, agreed to the laws surrounding the Berne Convention. We can’t just pick and choose which laws we want to follow, so long as it is just law, of course. That’s what I believe is part of our Christian duty as being good citizens of our country.

So if someone provides an English translation for educational/fair use they are not breaking the law.

Yes, in many cases, especially for news reporting, I believe this is true. However, as I’m sure u know, a person can still be taken to court and sued for a billion dollars, and it would be for the court to decide whether or not the translator utilized the fair use laws “fairly” enough. In reality, though, any person utilizing fair use laws in any way/for any reason, is subject to being taken to court.

 

[suko]

As much as I would like to not support Halliburton or the oil industry (which engage in illegal/immoral activity) I can’t avoid it. My government kills people immorally… should I not pay taxes?

Respectfully, I disagree with your line of reasoning here. We can’t control what other things an industry does that are illegal/immoral, and when they do participate in such things, it’s those specific illegal/immoral activities that we can’t support, such as killing people. We may be able to still support the company in their morally neutral (such as a government asking for taxes) or good activities, of course.

So if someone provides an English translation for educational/fair use they are not breaking the law.

Yes, in many cases, especially for news reporting, I believe this is true. However, as I’m sure u know, a person can still be taken to court and sued for a billion dollars, and it would be for the court to decide whether or not the translator utilized the fair use laws “fairly” enough. In reality, though, any person (in the U.S.) utilizing fair use laws in any way/for any reason, is subject to being taken to court. Unfortunately, there is no 100% for sure way of knowing if we’ve utilized the fair use laws “fairly” enough. All we can do is do our best to follow the criteria for them.

In the OPs case with the light novel translation groups, I don’t see them winning any court cases (in which the country they reside in abide by the laws of the Berne Convention) if they get taken to court for copyright infringement.

 

[God_I_Love]

Respectfully, I disagree with your line of reasoning here. We can’t control what other things an industry does that are illegal/immoral, and when they do participate in such things, it’s those specific illegal/immoral activities that we can’t support, such as killing people. We may be able to still support the company in their morally neutral (such as a government asking for taxes) or good activities, of course.

Buying gas funds these activities, indirectly. Money goes into the hands of some rich individual or lobbyist and illegal and immoral activities commence. And I must eat, and food transportation requires gas.
Secondly I can’t control what they apply my income tax towards so by your logic it would be better to not do it, and risk a hassle in court, than pay taxes. surviving in prison for non payment of taxes is morally better than continuing to pay for a morally corrupt system.

Yes, in many cases, especially for news reporting, I believe this is true. However, as I’m sure u know, a person can still be taken to court and sued for a billion dollars, and it would be for the court to decide whether or not the translator utilized the fair use laws “fairly” enough. In reality, though, any person (in the U.S.) utilizing fair use laws in any way/for any reason, is subject to being taken to court. Unfortunately, there is no 100% for sure way of knowing if we’ve utilized the fair use laws “fairly” enough. All we can do is do our best to follow the criteria for them.

In the OPs case with the light novel translation groups, I don’t see them winning any court cases (in which the country they reside in abide by the laws of the Berne Convention) if they get taken to court for copyright infringement.

Well it all depends on his use then. and since no one can be sure of winning in court does that mean one should not use the fair use applications… say I run a blog, reporting on the latest in light novels from Japan to an American English demographic. I choose a novel without an English translation. I then find a pdf on the internet for it through a site like pirate bay. I download and then report on it in my blog a few days later. Fair use? Definitely. Meets all criteria for it. So seems to legally be an easily defensible position. A review is considered news btw. Critique of literary works is a well protected institution of the First Amendment.

 

[suko]

Secondly I can’t control what they apply my income tax towards so by your logic it would be better to not do it, and risk a hassle in court, than pay taxes. surviving in prison for non payment of taxes is morally better than continuing to pay for a morally corrupt system.

Indirect participation of something that happens which one does not want, is not the same thing as directly partaking in a sinful act. Direct partaking would be something like someone grabbing a gun and shooting someone needlessly, or performing/assisting in an abortion. In your example here, I might be wrong (as I’m not sure on how the Church would stand in your example), but I think since the participation is indirect and not wanted, and a person needs food to survive, that it might be permissible (and not necessarily sinful) for someone to pay these taxes if it appears there are no other reliable means to survive.

If someone does know how the Church would stand in this example, please post!

Well it all depends on his use then. and since no one can be sure of winning in court does that mean one should not use the fair use applications…

Of course not. I make anime and video game memes all the time using copyrighted images and share them everywhere. For the most part, I understand the basic rules and what stuff is generally deemed acceptable, as I’ve spent more time than I’d like to admit researching fair use/copyright stuff; Though, I’m definitely no expert like edwest , who commented on this thread earlier. All we can do (for those that live in the U.S.), as I said before, is do our best to follow the criteria that’s laid out by fair use. Btw, I wasn’t trying to discourage the OP from discussing and reviewing a character, nor trying to discourage anyone from doing activities that utilize fair use. I was merely pointing out how just because we think we may be using something “fairly”, doesn’t necessarily mean the court will agree with us. That’s all. You weren’t supposed to read too much into that, but I guess that’s my fault since I probably didn’t even need to bring it up.

 

[zeldamagic]

The song is called Lament and it’s by Yuuki Aira. I actually found out that the DVDs can be bought for used on Amazon for around 5 dollars. I found the site grooveshark which has this song but I’m not sure if it’s legal or not. I’ve heard that it’s legal but there are some court issues it has so I’m not sure about it. Here’s the link to the translation site to help you guys determine whether it’s fair use or not. baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Main_Page

 

[suko]

Here’s the link to the translation site to help you guys determine whether it’s fair use or not. BT link.

I thought it might be them, lol. They’re pretty popular in the anime community. Anyway, let’s put things this way: if a copyright holder took BT to court, almost for sure, they would lose.