question about annulment

[osutuffy]

I haven’t posted on here in a while, but I have a question.

My mother took us to a Baptist church once or twice a year. Sometimes we went a couple years without gong at all. I didn’t even know what denomination our church was until I was about 18. I am currently planning on converting to Catholic this year. I am ging to talk to someone I know about going with her to church and seein if it is right for me. I am pretty sure it is. I have wanted to do this for som time now, and just finallygot myself motivated to take care of many things I have needed to do tis year.

My question is, I was married, I got a divorce through the courts in January/February. We were married in a courthouse. There were lots of issues there, he was an alcoholic, he cheated. He said he was a non-practicing Muslim, then he said after we were married that he was an atheist. That bothered me a lot. I wasn’t deeply religious myself, but I had faith, and I wanted to convert then. We talked about how we’d raise our kids, before he admitted he was atheist. He agreed that I could raise them Christian, after a year, he said he wanted to raise them Muslim so he could show them how ridiculous religion and belief in God really was, and he wanted to raise them in his country. That was the final straw, I had to get out before we had kids. I told him that I couldn’t take all of these things together, that they really bothered me, and he said tough, deal with it. Then he moved his girlfriend in, and I moved out. A few months later, he left the country due to he was going to do jail time for drinkng and driving. His girlfriend followed him, then about a year ago, he sent me an email that he married her. We were still legally married. In January, I finally had enough oney to file for divorce and it’s over with.

I was wondering if I can have my marraige annuled by the Catholic Church on the above grounds. I think the fact that he married while still married to me is enough if I looked at it right.
Second question, can I have our marraige annuled before I convert? Or even if I do not convert, or can only Catholics have annulments in a Catholic Church?

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

I was wondering if I can have my marraige annuled by the Catholic Church on the above grounds. I think the fact that he married while still married to me is enough if I looked at it right.
Second question, can I have our marraige annuled before I convert? Or even if I do not convert, or can only Catholics have annulments in a Catholic Church?

First, the best advice I can give you is to talk with a priest who can ask all the right questions and give you appropriate answers.

An annulment (or more properly, a declaration of nullity) is based on the situation at the time of the marriage. What he did after you were married may point to the situation at the time of the marriage (for example, that he didn’t intend to be faithful to you).

Yes you will have your marriage examined before you become Catholic. Whether the Tribunal would find that your marriage was valid or not, you want to know your status.

 

[gallo]

Yes you will have your marriage examined before you become Catholic. Whether the Tribunal would find that your marriage was valid or not, you want to know your status.

Is it possible for a declaration of nullity be granted by the Church to a person/couple who is not Roman Catholic nor intend to be?

osutuffy, I will pray for you.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

Is it possible for a declaration of nullity be granted by the Church to a person/couple who is not Roman Catholic nor intend to be?

osutuffy, I will pray for you.

I don’t think so because the Tribunal wouldn’t have any authority over them. Besides, why would someone care whether the Church thinks their marriage is valid if they’re not part of the Church?

 

[osutuffy]

Thank you both for your replies. I plan on talking to someone about this very soon. If I remember correctly the classes start in September, so I would like this examined before then. I also have some questions I would like answered before I convert. So, I intend to talk to someone soon.

 

[IrishAm]

If you decide to convert to Catholicism, the status of your earlier marriage will eventually need to be determined by a diocesan Tribunal if you ever choose to remarry (or even live a life that opens you to remarriage). Where you were married and the choices that were made following that marriage that led to your civil divorce may or may not have any bearing. It does, however, seem from your posting that your original marriage was not between two baptised Christians and that will certainly come into play.

Bottom line. If you choose to convert, talk to your priest. Be upfront about your situation. Most likely, it will involve some paperwork and the marriage will be determined to be null from its inception. But that cannot be counted on and must be determined by the Tribunal.

 

[missymichelle]

Since you posted this in January, I am sure you now already know this, but the most important thing you have to do is round up as many witnesses as you possibly can who will vouch for the fact that both you and your husband were unfit to marry at that time. The annulment process is a court of law and run like one. Your goal is to prove that because neither of you was in a position to make a contract(that is what a marriage is) then none existed. The Church’s position is to try and prove otherwise. Witnesses are what it is all about and don’t waite too long, people die unfortunately.
Good luck

 

[JRKH]

If you decide to convert to Catholicism, the status of your earlier marriage will eventually need to be determined by a diocesan Tribunal if you ever choose to remarry (or even live a life that opens you to remarriage). Where you were married and the choices that were made following that marriage that led to your civil divorce may or may not have any bearing. It does, however, seem from your posting that your original marriage was not between two baptised Christians and that will certainly come into play.

Bottom line. If you choose to convert, talk to your priest. Be upfront about your situation. Most likely, it will involve some paperwork and the marriage will be determined to be null from its inception. But that cannot be counted on and must be determined by the Tribunal.

This answer is right on the mark.

As to the grounds etc. I would say that you willnot have any problem having it annulled. My opinion only of course

 

[puzzleannie]

I don’t think so because the Tribunal wouldn’t have any authority over them. Besides, why would someone care whether the Church thinks their marriage is valid if they’re not part of the Church?

not so

anyone can appeal to the canon law tribunal of the Catholic diocese in which they reside, or in which the original marriage took place for an investigation and judgment on the validity of their marriage. The petition, except in very rare cases, will probably not be accepted unless there seems no hope of reconciliation. The reasons a non-Catholic might do this are to be free to marry a Catholic in the Catholic Church.

There is no way to make an informed comment about the validity of an individual marriage here, because each situation is unique. The person to approach is the pastor of the Catholic parish in which you reside. The circumstances after the wedding have no bearing on validity, only the circumstances that pertained at the time of the marriage–whether the parties were free to marry, whether there was any force or if both entered into the contract with full free will and intent to accomplish the good of marriage–fidelity etc., and both had ability to fully consent and did so.

Circumstances after the wedding can shed light on disposition of one or both parties at the time of the marriage, but by themselves do not affect validity.

 

[Just_Lurking]

Is it possible for a declaration of nullity be granted by the Church to a person/couple who is not Roman Catholic nor intend to be?

osutuffy, I will pray for you.

The rule about who can apply for a declaration of nullity is (see here):

Art. 3 – § 1. The matrimonial causes of the baptized pertain by right to the ecclesiastical judge (can. 1671).

§ 2. However, an ecclesiastical judge hears only those causes of the nullity of marriage of non-Catholics, whether baptized or unbaptized, in which it is necessary to establish the free state of at least one party before the Catholic Church, without prejudice to art. 114.

§ 3. Causes concerning the merely civil effects of marriage belong to the civil magistrate, unless particular law provides that those same causes, if they are to be treated incidentally and subordinately, can be heard and decided by an ecclesiastical judge.

 

[gallo]

The rule about who can apply for a declaration of nullity is (see here):

Art. 3 – § 1. The matrimonial causes of the baptized pertain by right to the ecclesiastical judge (can. 1671).

§ 2. However, an ecclesiastical judge hears only those causes of the nullity of marriage of non-Catholics, whether baptized or unbaptized, in which it is necessary to establish the free state of at least one party before the Catholic Church, without prejudice to art. 114.

§ 3. Causes concerning the merely civil effects of marriage belong to the civil magistrate, unless particular law provides that those same causes, if they are to be treated incidentally and subordinately, can be heard and decided by an ecclesiastical judge.

So what is the commoner’s English translation of this?

 

[IrishAm]

So what is the commoner’s English translation of this?

§ 2. However, an ecclesiastical judge hears only those causes of the nullity of marriage of non-Catholics, whether baptized or unbaptized, in which it is necessary to establish the free state of at least one party before the Catholic Church, without prejudice to art. 114.

It means the Catholic Church needs to have some reason to decide on the state of the marriage; the Church doesn’t just go around willy-nilly deciding random people are or are not married in Her eyes. In real life, that usually means someone wants to convert to Catholicism or someone wants to marry a Catholic.

 

[cameron_lansing]

So what is the commoner’s English translation of this?

Tribunals only hear cases involving the marriages of two non Catholics when one of them wants to marry again in the Catholic Church. Then he or she has a right to know if this is possible because that marriage was invalid, and in a broader sense, so does the Church.

 

[Just_Lurking]

So any Protestants who may have heard about the wonderful “healing” effects of the Catholic annulment process are out of luck.