Question about baptism and conditional baptism

[Tommy999]

Hello all,
Please help clarify a few items regarding the role of baptism in the Catholic Church and when it is required.

I realize that when a non-Catholic who has never been baptized becomes Catholic, he must be baptized and that baptism erases all sins up to that point in time, according to Catholic doctrine.

My understanding is that non-Catholic Christians who were previously baptized in the Trinitarian way (in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) by a faith tradition the Catholic Church recognizes as valid, don’t have to be baptized again but they must confess all of their mortal sins that they’ve committed from the time of their baptism to when they joined the Church during their first Reconciliation.

Other times, I heard that the priest will require a conditional baptism be performed.

Question 1:
What kind of situations necessitate a conditional baptism? I was baptized as a teenager in the Presbyterian Church, by the way.

Question 2: (forgive me if this is a dumb question)
Does the catechumen have the option of requesting/lobbying for a conditional baptism instead of Confession if approximately 40 years passed since his baptism? That would be the case with me and I find it a daunting task to have to remember all my mortal sins since I was 16 or 17.

Your help is much appreciated. By the way, Happy Easter to everyone.

 

[agapewolf]

When a baptism status is seriously in doubt-- such as incorrect form, no records with no one that witnessed it, etc.

You may not request a conditional baptism simply because its been so long. A conditional baptism would not wipe away sins if you had already been baptized. In fact, those that are conditionally baptized still should go to confession in case their first baptism was valid as one doesn’t want to receive other sacraments in the state of sin.

If you have memory or records of your first baptism in the right formula, you have been baptized.

Just do your best to do a full confession. It will be the most freeing experience.

 

[1ke]

What kind of situations necessitate a conditional baptism?

Only when, after investigation, serious doubt remains regarding whether the baptism was performed at all or performed validly.

Can. 869 §1. If there is a doubt whether a person has been baptized or whether baptism was conferred validly and the doubt remains after a serious investigation, baptism is to be conferred conditionally.

I was baptized as a teenager in the Presbyterian Church, by the way.

Presbyterians baptized validly, and you can attest to your own baptism. So, there would be no reason for a conditional baptism.

Does the catechumen have the option of requesting/lobbying for a conditional baptism instead of Confession if approximately 40 years passed since his baptism?

No.

That would be the case with me and I find it a daunting task to have to remember all my mortal sins since I was 16 or 17.

Conditional baptism would not negate the need for you to confess. Conditional baptism is of the form “if you are not already baptized, I baptize you…”.

If you are already validly baptized, conditional baptism does nothing, it does not remit sin. Therefore, you must still confess.

Work with your pastor, he will help you through first confession.

 

[Tommy999]

Thanks Agapewolf and 1ke.
I had a feeling that may be the case but wanted to get it clarified to be sure.

 

[His_helpmeet]

Thanks Agapewolf and 1ke.
I had a feeling that may be the case but wanted to get it clarified to be sure.

My expectation is that conditional Baptism would be more common in cases such as “I belonged to some tiny nondenominational church that met in a community centre and they closed down years ago and I can’t get the records and I can’t remember if it was a Trinitarian formula”, “my parents said that I was baptized but I don’t know where and they’re dead/unable to explain so I can’t get the information from them”, “Grandma said she baptized me in the bathtub but nothing was ever written down and I don’t remember it”, cases where people were baptized in secret because Christianity and/or Catholicism was illegal (it may not have been possible to keep many written records for obvious reasons) and they were too young to remember and/or there is no one they know who remembers the details, etc.

If you’re not sure if you can remember all of your sins, there are a few options. You can find examination of conscience directions everywhere - these usually take the format of going through the Ten Commandments and/or the precepts of the Church, or asking questions about common sins, to help you ensure that you are well-prepared for confession. Father can also help you to remember. Also remember that we are not morally obligated to confess venial sins (though it is beneficial to do so). If you completely forget to mention a sin during your confession and remember it afterwards, it is still forgiven, but if it is a mortal sin it should be confessed during your next confession.

 

[Karen107]

Happy Easter to you as well!

Hello all,
Please help clarify a few items regarding the role of baptism in the Catholic Church and when it is required.

I realize that when a non-Catholic who has never been baptized becomes Catholic, he must be baptized and that baptism erases all sins up to that point in time, according to Catholic doctrine.

My understanding is that non-Catholic Christians who were previously baptized in the Trinitarian way (in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) by a faith tradition the Catholic Church recognizes as valid, don’t have to be baptized again but they must confess all of their mortal sins that they’ve committed from the time of their baptism to when they joined the Church during their first Reconciliation.

Other times, I heard that the priest will require a conditional baptism be performed.

Question 1:
What kind of situations necessitate a conditional baptism? I was baptized as a teenager in the Presbyterian Church, by the way.

When a person is baptized in another Church, the Church requests the documentation directly from the Church which baptized them and not just a copy or a persons word that they were baptized, or was done at home or in the Hospital by someone other than a Priest who would have entered the documentation of the baptism… So if a person doesn’t have that documentation or there is any doubt to the validity of baptism they may need to have a conditional baptism. Baptism puts an indelible mark on our soul so it is important that it is done and it is only supposed to be done once…

Question 2: (forgive me if this is a dumb question)
Does the catechumen have the option of requesting/lobbying for a conditional baptism instead of Confession if approximately 40 years passed since his baptism? That would be the case with me and I find it a daunting task to have to remember all my mortal sins since I was 16 or 17.

Baptism doesn’t take the place of confession… It is in confession that we confess our sins and it is a healing sacrament, Baptism, which is a sacrament of initiation, removes the sin of Adam from our souls and brings us into the family of God making us children of God, and so we are born again in our Baptism… We must be born again (by being baptized) to enter the Kingdom of God!..Catechumens do both confession and baptism because the heart of the person must be washed of their sins before starting a new life in Christ … I point to the scriptures where Jesus said there must be new wineskins for new wine because putting new wine in old wineskins spoils the wine… The wineskins here is your soul… Unless you have a cleansed soul, you are not prepared for grace to enter, and we receive grace through the sacraments… In the Case of an infant this is not necessary but in the case of a person who reached the age of accountability they would be asked to have confessed their sins, like any of us do regularly… I would tell the priest your situation at the beginning of your confession by telling him it’s your first confession and the Priest can help you with the rest. .I would confess the biggies that comes to your mind first, then as you think about others you may have forgotten or didn’t realize they were grave sins, confess them as you remember… Don’t fear confession it’s a healing sacrament and something practicing Catholics do regularly and there’s no time like the present for your soul to be set free!

Your help is much appreciated. By the way, Happy Easter to everyone.

 

[Tommy999]

My expectation is that conditional Baptism would be more common in cases such as “I belonged to some tiny nondenominational church that met in a community centre and they closed down years ago and I can’t get the records and I can’t remember if it was a Trinitarian formula”, “my parents said that I was baptized but I don’t know where and they’re dead/unable to explain so I can’t get the information from them”, “Grandma said she baptized me in the bathtub but nothing was ever written down and I don’t remember it”, cases where people were baptized in secret because Christianity and/or Catholicism was illegal (it may not have been possible to keep many written records for obvious reasons) and they were too young to remember and/or there is no one they know who remembers the details, etc.

If you’re not sure if you can remember all of your sins, there are a few options. You can find examination of conscience directions everywhere - these usually take the format of going through the Ten Commandments and/or the precepts of the Church, or asking questions about common sins, to help you ensure that you are well-prepared for confession. Father can also help you to remember. Also remember that we are not morally obligated to confess venial sins (though it is beneficial to do so). If you completely forget to mention a sin during your confession and remember it afterwards, it is still forgiven, but if it is a mortal sin it should be confessed during your next confession.

Thanks for the advice, His_helpmeet. Very helpful. Happy Easter to you!

 

[Tommy999]

Hi Kkaren107,
Thanks for the additional clarification and examples. I have not started RCIA yet but am thinking about starting during the next cycle so I assume they will go over more of the requirements in more depth at that time.

Thanks to all who responded. I have a much clearer explanation about the process now and it makes total sense in my case that I should do confession in the manner you stated and allow the Lord thru the Holy Spirit to allow me to remember those mortal sins I’ve committed over the past 35-40 years since my baptism, although I’ve since confessed them directly to God a long time ago. I desire to follow the correct process of the Church.
I just didn’t know what it was prior to your clarifications.

Follow up question:
What happens if the church where I was baptized doesn’t keep baptism records from 40 years ago? I hope they do and I will ask them the closer I get to the decision to join RCIA but I was just curious what would happen if that was the case.

 

[Karen107]

Hi Kkaren107,
Thanks for the additional clarification and examples. I have not started RCIA yet but am thinking about starting during the next cycle so I assume they will go over more of the requirements in more depth at that time.

Thanks to all who responded. I have a much clearer explanation about the process now and it makes total sense in my case that I should do confession in the manner you stated and allow the Lord thru the Holy Spirit to allow me to remember those mortal sins I’ve committed over the past 35-40 years since my baptism, although I’ve since confessed them directly to God a long time ago. I desire to follow the correct process of the Church.
I just didn’t know what it was prior to your clarifications.

Follow up question:
What happens if the church where I was baptized doesn’t keep baptism records from 40 years ago? I hope they do and I will ask them the closer I get to the decision to join RCIA but I was just curious what would happen if that was the case.

You’re welcome! It’s never a problem to confess sins directly to God, in fact, we are encouraged to pray the Act of Contrition daily, but Jesus set up the ministry of reconciliation in order to be reconciled to God through the Church for many reasons and as you learn more about our beliefs they will come clearer to you…

And I’m sure they can explain any questions you might have about this in RCIA… I don’t work in the parish office to see how many haven’t the proper documentation of baptism, but I believe that most Churches would keep a record of them… I would imagine that training to be a ordained Pastor or minister would include learning about record keeping. These same ministers probably also do marriage and funeral services which are required by law to be recorded. I found this online and it says most churches do keep a record of baptisms. At this point I wouldn’t let it concern you too much…
wikihow.com/Find-a-Baptismal-Record

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

When a person is baptized in another Church, the Church requests the documentation directly from the Church which baptized them and not just a copy or a persons word that they were baptized, or was done at home or in the Hospital by someone other than a Priest who would have entered the documentation of the baptism…

This is not necessarily the case. We can accept statements from witnesses such as parents, godparents, or even the person being baptized if he was old enough to remember.

Baptism doesn’t take the place of confession… It is in confession that we confess our sins and it is a healing sacrament, Baptism, which is a sacrament of initiation, removes the sin of Adam from our souls and brings us into the family of God making us children of God, and so we are born again in our Baptism… We must be born again (by being baptized) to enter the Kingdom of God!..Catechumens do both confession and baptism because the heart of the person must be washed of their sins before starting a new life in Christ …

Actually baptism removes ALL sin, both original sin and actual sin. Catechumens **don’t need **to go to confession before they are baptized since after baptism they will be literally born again in the spirit. And they can’t go to confession since baptism opens the gate to the other sacraments.

From the Catechism:
1263 By Baptism all sins are forgiven, original sin and all personal sins, as well as all punishment for sin. In those who have been reborn nothing remains that would impede their entry into the Kingdom of God, neither Adam’s sin, nor personal sin, nor the consequences of sin, the gravest of which is separation from God.

 

[Karen107]

This is not necessarily the case. We can accept statements from witnesses such as parents, godparents, or even the person being baptized if he was old enough to remember.

Forgive me, when I went through sacramental classes that was not said to us. We were told they would request the baptism from the Churches we were baptized in. You must know more than I, I did say I didn’t work in the parish office…I was going by what was told to us.

 

[Karen107]

From the Catechism:
1263 By Baptism all sins are forgiven, original sin and all personal sins, as well as all punishment for sin. In those who have been reborn nothing remains that would impede their entry into the Kingdom of God, neither Adam’s sin, nor personal sin, nor the consequences of sin, the gravest of which is separation from God.

Having not had been in the RCIA program myself or been a trained sponsor, I was unaware that confession of the past sins was not needed either before or after the baptism. Maybe you need to clarify this…I look to the scirptures which say…

Acts 2:38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

Acts 2:38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Repentance is needed! That’s the purpose of the Scrutinies that come before baptism. They’re a sign of the repentance that has taken place in the catechumen’s lives.