Question about baptism eligibility

[Kaylisette]

We are not Catholics but we are Christians that were baptized in another denomination (baptized Methodist, practiced as Evangelical) and active for several years until realizing our journey was leading us to the Catholic church

After much consideration and prayer, we began attending Mass and learning more about the Catholic faith. We have a lot to learn but have been reading the Catechism, going to Mass, and doing a Catholic Bible study, we want to commit to being Catholic and raising our children in the faith.

We fully understand why we should not yet take part in Holy Communion but we don’t understand why our young children (unbaptized and under the age of five) cannot be baptized until we go through RCIA and I have not been able to find any answers about it. If there’s another thread, please feel free to refer me to it … I searched but didn’t find anything that quite matched. Thank you so much!

 

[KarenElissa]

We fully understand why we should not yet take part in Holy Communion but we don’t understand why our young children (unbaptized and under the age of five) cannot be baptized until we go through RCIA and I have not been able to find any answers about it. If there’s another thread, please feel free to refer me to it … I searched but didn’t find anything that quite matched. Thank you so much!

For children to be baptized in the Catholic Church, there must be founded hope that the children will be raised in the Catholic faith. Since you are not Catholic now, and since you could still back out of RCIA, many priests will wait until you are actually Catholic to baptize your children.

 

[Kaylisette]

For children to be baptized in the Catholic Church, there must be founded hope that the children will be raised in the Catholic faith. Since you are not Catholic now, and since you could still back out of RCIA, many priests will wait until you are actually Catholic to baptize your children.

Thank you so much for responding. I was in tears after talking with the parish secretary (not upset at the answer, but at her attitude) so I came here for help. Even getting information on RCIA has been difficult.

I guess my confusion was I felt there was founded hope since we go to Mass, teach the faith to our children from Catholic materials, and do all we are allowed under our present status (not yet Catholic, but fully committed. So of course, we sit during Communion and do not serve in Catholic ministries.) We did not come to the Catholic church on a whim.

Anyway, I also struggle with telling our children (one of whom wants to be baptized) why she has to wait. I really understand my not taking part in Holy Communion but I would be happy for further reason why the children may not be baptized if devoted Catholic sponsors and committed-to-becoming Catholic parents present them for it. Obviously, if we have to wait, I will be fine with that, and it’s not going to turn me off from the Catholic church. But I would be open to hearing more on why we were told it can’t happen yet.

 

[KarenElissa]

Anyway, I also struggle with telling our children (one of whom wants to be baptized) why she has to wait. I really understand my not taking part in Holy Communion but I would be happy for further reason why the children may not be baptized if devoted Catholic sponsors and committed-to-becoming Catholic parents present them for it. Obviously, if we have to wait, I will be fine with that, and it’s not going to turn me off from the Catholic church. But I would be open to hearing more on why we were told it can’t happen yet.

Your best beat it is to make an appointment with your priest and talk to him about it.

Unfortunately not everyone who calls and asks about RCIA or baptism for their children is as committed to the faith as you all seem to be. That may explain the secretary’s response, it can be easy to get a bit jaded.

I would make an appointment to talk to the priest and explain everything to him, especially the part about your daughters desire to be baptized. This is your best plan for making it happen.

 

[promethius]

For children to be baptized in the Catholic Church, there must be founded hope that the children will be raised in the Catholic faith. Since you are not Catholic now, and since you could still back out of RCIA, many priests will wait until you are actually Catholic to baptize your children.

Not only that… because a child has not reached an age where they are capable of giving sacred vows, the Catholic parents stand in their stead to make the vows for them. If you are not yet initiated as a Catholic, you can’t vouch as a Catholic parent that the child will be raised in the faith of the household.

It is a very unfortunate situation to be in, OP, that your daughter is just old enough to understand the necessity of baptism but just too young to make baptismal vows on her own. You might, since she has such understanding already, speak to the priest and tell him you feel she has reached the age of moral reason (the church generally describes this as seven years, but it is subjective to each person) and that the priest is welcome to ask her about the meaning of baptism and about moral right and wrong.

If she has reached the age of moral reason and is elligable to be baptised, she can go forward with her baptism on her own… of course, if this is the case, she should also begin some form of Christian initiation and consider attending confession (the age of moral reason denotes that a person has enough understanding to know what is wrong and enough of their own will to avoid doing it).

Discuss this with your priest if you feel she is truly so mature in her understanding that she doesn’t need Catholic parents to give her baptismal promises for her. Be ready that he may be more comfortable letting it go until you’ve been through RCIA, or that it may require a dispensation from the bishop and a chance for the priest to interview your daughter. If the priest says no, he does so for what he considers good reason, so submit to his word on this one and tell your daughter that she has to wait because you are all becoming catholics together. If you don’t feel your daughter has reached the age of moral reason, then you simply must wait until your household is catholic and you can give the promises for her.

Pax et Caritas Christi tecuum (Peace and Love of Christ to you)!

Oh, and welcome home!

 

[puzzleannie]

We fully understand why we should not yet take part in Holy Communion but we don’t understand why our young children (unbaptized and under the age of five) cannot be baptized until we go through RCIA and I have not been able to find any answers about it. If there’s another thread, please feel free to refer me to it … I searched but didn’t find anything that quite matched. Thank you so much!

I don’t understand it either, who gave you this information? No your young children will not be baptized unless you can give assurance they will be raised Catholic, but if you are participating in RCIA yourself and planning to prepare for confirmation and first communion, that should be sufficient assurance for the pastor (unless there is more to the story). My advice is to make an appointment with the pastor himself and discuss your family situation in detail, rather than just asking for the basic “rules” from the parish secretary or receptionist. Only the pastor can make such a decision on when the child is ready for baptism–not the secretary, nun who teaches baptism class, RCIA director, or even the deaco–only the pastor, so make sure it is he you are meeting with.

forgot to say “welcome home” and it is especially exciting when a whole family comes under the umbrella like this

 

[SonCatcher]

Anyway, I also struggle with telling our children (one of whom wants to be baptized) why she has to wait. I really understand my not taking part in Holy Communion but I would be happy for further reason why the children may not be baptized if devoted Catholic sponsors and committed-to-becoming Catholic parents present them for it. Obviously, if we have to wait, I will be fine with that, and it’s not going to turn me off from the Catholic church. But I would be open to hearing more on why we were told it can’t happen yet.

A simple way to tell your children is to remind them how everyone needs to take turns and follow rules. Something like “the Church says Mommy and Daddy need to be Confirmed, first.”

 

[Verbum]

Hi Kaylisette,

We thank God who has brought you to the banks of the Tiber. You still have to swim it, and this may at times be a little difficult or annoying, but He will bring you safely across!

Hundreds, possibly thousands apply to RCIA each year. Not all participants become Catholic. Sincere as you may be, your sincerity is not engraved on your forehead by a visiting angel. And even if were, you could still change your mind. And it is a requirement that children may be baptized only if there is founded hope that they will be brought up as Catholics.

Hre is the canon law statute :

Can. 868 §1. For an infant to be baptized licitly:

1/ the parents or at least one of them or the person who legitimately takes their place must consent;

2/ there must be a founded hope that the infant will be brought up in the Catholic religion; if such hope is altogether lacking, the baptism is to be delayed according to the prescripts of particular law after the parents have been advised about the reason.

§2. An infant of Catholic parents or even of non-Catholic parents is baptized licitly in danger of death even against the will of the parents.

The people at RCIA are what they are, but the initiative to admit someone to baptism is not theirs; they must follow the directives of their bishop, who must follow those of the universal church.

Look at it this way. Wouldn’it it be nice if, in a year or two, at the Easter Vigil, you were solemnly confirmed into the Catholic Church and receive the body and blood of
Christ, on the same night as your children were baptized in the presence of the whole community? it is a privilege few Catholics have had!

Verbum

 

[Chris_Etzel]

my wife and I were not Catholic, but attending RCIA class and our daughter attends the parish school. She was 5 and asked to be baptized. we asked her if she knew what baptism was and she explained it to our satisfaction. We asked the priest and his response was “why is she not already baptized ?!”. of course we had to have at least one Catholic Godparent but she was baptized while we were still attending RCIA. It’s up to the priest. You should speak to him as a couple.

 

[Kaylisette]

Your best beat it is to make an appointment with your priest and talk to him about it.

Unfortunately not everyone who calls and asks about RCIA or baptism for their children is as committed to the faith as you all seem to be. That may explain the secretary’s response, it can be easy to get a bit jaded.

I would make an appointment to talk to the priest and explain everything to him, especially the part about your daughters desire to be baptized. This is your best plan for making it happen.

Thank you. It’s funny but tonight I was wondering if this was just a step to push us to make an appt. with the parish priest.

I hadn’t considered that people who aren’t committed would go through RCIA. But that does make sense. I have never met the secretary so she has no idea about our commitment. Thank you.

I don’t understand it either, who gave you this information? No your young children will not be baptized unless you can give assurance they will be raised Catholic, but if you are participating in RCIA yourself and planning to prepare for confirmation and first communion, that should be sufficient assurance for the pastor (unless there is more to the story). My advice is to make an appointment with the pastor himself and discuss your family situation in detail, rather than just asking for the basic “rules” from the parish secretary or receptionist. Only the pastor can make such a decision on when the child is ready for baptism–not the secretary, nun who teaches baptism class, RCIA director, or even the deaco–only the pastor, so make sure it is he you are meeting with.

forgot to say “welcome home” and it is especially exciting when a whole family comes under the umbrella like this

The secretary gave us the information. There isn’t more to the story that I think would be an issue, but if you can think of anything that would be a hinderance, let me know. But we’ll be making an appointment with the parish’s pastor. We have found him easy to talk with and if he really felt it should be delayed, that’s fine. Thank you for the advice!

my wife and I were not Catholic, but attending RCIA class and our daughter attends the parish school. She was 5 and asked to be baptized. we asked her if she knew what baptism was and she explained it to our satisfaction. We asked the priest and his response was “why is she not already baptized ?!”. of course we had to have at least one Catholic Godparent but she was baptized while we were still attending RCIA. It’s up to the priest. You should speak to him as a couple.

Thank you for sharing that. Our oldest will be five in a few weeks. We’ll be talking with the priest and will abide by his decision, of course.

 

[Kaylisette]

Not only that… because a child has not reached an age where they are capable of giving sacred vows, the Catholic parents stand in their stead to make the vows for them. If you are not yet initiated as a Catholic, you can’t vouch as a Catholic parent that the child will be raised in the faith of the household.

It is a very unfortunate situation to be in, OP, that your daughter is just old enough to understand the necessity of baptism but just too young to make baptismal vows on her own. You might, since she has such understanding already, speak to the priest and tell him you feel she has reached the age of moral reason (the church generally describes this as seven years, but it is subjective to each person) and that the priest is welcome to ask her about the meaning of baptism and about moral right and wrong.

If she has reached the age of moral reason and is elligable to be baptised, she can go forward with her baptism on her own… of course, if this is the case, she should also begin some form of Christian initiation and consider attending confession (the age of moral reason denotes that a person has enough understanding to know what is wrong and enough of their own will to avoid doing it).

Discuss this with your priest if you feel she is truly so mature in her understanding that she doesn’t need Catholic parents to give her baptismal promises for her. Be ready that he may be more comfortable letting it go until you’ve been through RCIA, or that it may require a dispensation from the bishop and a chance for the priest to interview your daughter. If the priest says no, he does so for what he considers good reason, so submit to his word on this one and tell your daughter that she has to wait because you are all becoming catholics together. If you don’t feel your daughter has reached the age of moral reason, then you simply must wait until your household is catholic and you can give the promises for her.

Pax et Caritas Christi tecuum (Peace and Love of Christ to you)!

Oh, and welcome home!

Thanks for the welcome
I will talk with the priest. We have absolutely no problem with waiting if the priest says no. But I had incorrectly, I suppose, read that we could have them baptized if there was founded hope, consent, and we have committed Catholic godparents. If it makes sense, I understand us not taking part in Holy Communion but neither we nor the godparents knew of anything to hinder them from being baptized as Catholics. FWIW, I wait on the priest, but I wouldn’t myself say that our oldest is of the age of reason yet.
Thank you again!

 

[Kaylisette]

Hi Kaylisette,

We thank God who has brought you to the banks of the Tiber. You still have to swim it, and this may at times be a little difficult or annoying, but He will bring you safely across!

Hundreds, possibly thousands apply to RCIA each year. Not all participants become Catholic. Sincere as you may be, your sincerity is not engraved on your forehead by a visiting angel. And even if were, you could still change your mind. And it is a requirement that children may be baptized only if there is founded hope that they will be brought up as Catholics.

Hre is the canon law statute :

The people at RCIA are what they are, but the initiative to admit someone to baptism is not theirs; they must follow the directives of their bishop, who must follow those of the universal church.

Look at it this way. Wouldn’it it be nice if, in a year or two, at the Easter Vigil, you were solemnly confirmed into the Catholic Church and receive the body and blood of
Christ, on the same night as your children were baptized in the presence of the whole community? it is a privilege few Catholics have had!

Verbum

Thank you! I didn’t think finding RCIA class information or having our children baptized would be the hard part of the swim, but we are nonetheless very thankful for this journey.

Looking at the statute, I guess I thought “founded hope” was defined differently. Again, I’ll discuss this with the priest but we attend Mass, teach the faith through daily readings, prayers, the Rosary, songs, and Bible lessons, and have committed godparents – they aren’t just Catholic friends that we are making godparents in a show of affection for.

And I guess it didn’t make sense that someone who is non-practicing Catholic Christian can have their child baptized now but we had to wait until Easter Vigil. Not that we are upset about waiting; I understand the wait on us being in full communion. I just wasn’t seeing the lack of founded hope and consent.

 

[KarenElissa]

Thank you. It’s funny but tonight I was wondering if this was just a step to push us to make an appt. with the parish priest.

I hadn’t considered that people who aren’t committed would go through RCIA. But that does make sense. I have never met the secretary so she has no idea about our commitment. Thank you.

There are a pretty wide variety of people who end up in RCIA. Some, like you, are totally committed to becoming Catholic. Some are somewhat committed, but run into major issues along the way. Others are interested, but have little knowledge, so it may not work out. And some are there just because a spouse, friend, or family member is pushing it.

So since the secretary doesn’t know you, or which category you fit in, that explains her reaction. It probably wasn’t the best reaction, but it is understandable.

I’m glad you are planning to meet with the priest, hopefully that will help straighten everything out. But either way, it is nice to see you have a positive attitude about the whole thing.

 

[Kaylisette]

A simple way to tell your children is to remind them how everyone needs to take turns and follow rules. Something like “the Church says Mommy and Daddy need to be Confirmed, first.”

Thank you. That does make sense and if that is the way our priest decides, we will use that.

I was more the one with the struggle, not with the secretary’s message itself but with her attitude and lack of explanation. (After seeing responses here, I understand a little more that she probably has no idea of our commitment level, although she didn’t seem to interested in hearing about it, either.) My oldest child is still fairly young and she actually asked this evening. We told her we would need to meet with the priest first and that was explanation enough for her.

 

[Kaylisette]

There are a pretty wide variety of people who end up in RCIA. Some, like you, are totally committed to becoming Catholic. Some are somewhat committed, but run into major issues along the way. Others are interested, but have little knowledge, so it may not work out. And some are there just because a spouse, friend, or family member is pushing it.

So since the secretary doesn’t know you, or which category you fit in, that explains her reaction. It probably wasn’t the best reaction, but it is understandable.

I’m glad you are planning to meet with the priest, hopefully that will help straighten everything out. But either way, it is nice to see you have a positive attitude about the whole thing.

Thank you and everyone again for your encouraging words.

Especially, thank you for pointing out that people with a wide variety of commitment go to RCIA. We, for better or worse, didn’t even consider attending Mass before we were fairly committed to “crossing the Tiber”. To even consider RCIA, therefore, meant we were sure. Not that we don’t have a lot to learn (oh, do we have a lot to learn!), but we did not start going to Mass without first being familiar with the Catechism, doing a Catholic Bible study, and discussing with practicing Catholic friends about this.

Anyway, when we finally do track down an RCIA class we can attend, we’ll better understand that some might only be there for someone else’s sake or aren’t quite sure yet. I knew there was no pressure to complete RCIA classes, but I hadn’t realized people might start in being very unsure of staying in. Thank you!

 

[EasterJoy]

Thank you and everyone again for your encouraging words.

Especially, thank you for pointing out that people with a wide variety of commitment go to RCIA. We, for better or worse, didn’t even consider attending Mass before we were fairly committed to “crossing the Tiber”. To even consider RCIA, therefore, meant we were sure. Not that we don’t have a lot to learn (oh, do we have a lot to learn!), but we did not start going to Mass without first being familiar with the Catechism, doing a Catholic Bible study, and discussing with practicing Catholic friends about this.

Anyway, when we finally do track down an RCIA class we can attend, we’ll better understand that some might only be there for someone else’s sake or aren’t quite sure yet. I knew there was no pressure to complete RCIA classes, but I hadn’t realized people might start in being very unsure of staying in. Thank you!

Also, keep in mind that the Church holds to the concept of the baptism of desire. IOW, although catechumens and candidates for entrance into the Church must normally wait for their baptism until Easter, it is held that if a person desiring and preparing for entrance into the Church dies before baptism due to no fault of their own, they will be counted as though among the baptised. They are given burial in the Church as one of the baptised. This is the ancient practice of the Church.

From the catechism:
**1259 **For catechumens who die before their Baptism, their explicit desire to receive it, together with repentance for their sins, and charity, assures them the salvation that they were not able to receive through the sacrament.

From canon law:
Can. 1183 §1. When it concerns funerals, catechumens must be counted among the Christian faithful

If you were baptised a Catholic, you would have a grave responsibility to have your children baptised as soon after their birth as possible. As a candidate for entrance into the Church, your responsibility is to first prepare yourself to raise your children Catholic, so that they may enter with you.

Or, as the airlines put it, “In the event of a decompression, an oxygen mask will automatically appear in front of you …] If you are travelling with a child or someone who requires assistance, secure your mask on first, and then assist the other person.”

 

[Seatuck]

Thank you. That does make sense and if that is the way our priest decides, we will use that.

I was more the one with the struggle, not with the secretary’s message itself but with her attitude and lack of explanation. (After seeing responses here, I understand a little more that she probably has no idea of our commitment level, although she didn’t seem to interested in hearing about it, either.) My oldest child is still fairly young and she actually asked this evening. We told her we would need to meet with the priest first and that was explanation enough for her.

It’s more than the commitment level. Issues with parts of the faith that are learned later or problems with previous marriages can put conversion off track. It is particularly tragic if a child is baptized into a church that the parents later choose is not for them. It isn’t the parish secretary’s place to delve into these areas. Definitely make an appointment with the priest so you can go over things with him and he can assess your family needs.

 

[puzzleannie]

bear in mind the parish secretary just has a list of “the rules” for people who come off the street and ask basic questions, so that is what she tells you, the rules that apply to most people who come in the door, who are participating members.

When it comes to sacraments, RCIA, baptism etc. and bringing non-Catholics and families into the Church, that is not her area of expertise, those are pastoral questions, not simple administrative questions, and she simply cannot give you an answer that speaks to your individual situation. Nor is it proper she should be the one asking personal questions. That is the role of the pastor alone. He probably has designated someone (like me who coordinates RCIA) to do an initial interview, but eventually the priest will have to meet with you because only the priest can provide the pastoral care you need and decide on the timing of sacraments, because of all the issues that arise in families.

welcome home
it is a swim across this river and not accomplished lightly or quickly, the timing is in God’s hands. We are facilitators, not directors, of his action of grace.

 

[Kaylisette]

From the catechism:
**1259 **For catechumens who die before their Baptism, their explicit desire to receive it, together with repentance for their sins, and charity, assures them the salvation that they were not able to receive through the sacrament.

From canon law:
Can. 1183 §1. When it concerns funerals, catechumens must be counted among the Christian faithful

If you were baptised a Catholic, you would have a grave responsibility to have your children baptised as soon after their birth as possible. As a candidate for entrance into the Church, your responsibility is to first prepare yourself to raise your children Catholic, so that they may enter with you.

Or, as the airlines put it, “In the event of a decompression, an oxygen mask will automatically appear in front of you …] If you are travelling with a child or someone who requires assistance, secure your mask on first, and then assist the other person.”

Well, that is an interesting way to put it! I think that is one of the (many) things that has helped us on the journey so far. There’s no superstition about baptizing the children and my understanding (correct me if I’m wrong) is that my very young children would not be held accountable at this point in time for their lack of baptism. Neither of us were baptized or raised Catholic (we were both baptized, and as far as I know those baptisms would be valid in the eyes of the Church), and we had no understanding of the responsibility to baptize until we were led to the Catholic church (since we were in an Evangelical church for several years, where they teach it is wrong to baptize infants.)

Anyway, looking at it that way, I can definitely understand if the priest would prefer us to be further along before having our children baptized.

bear in mind the parish secretary just has a list of “the rules” for people who come off the street and ask basic questions, so that is what she tells you, the rules that apply to most people who come in the door, who are participating members.

When it comes to sacraments, RCIA, baptism etc. and bringing non-Catholics and families into the Church, that is not her area of expertise, those are pastoral questions, not simple administrative questions, and she simply cannot give you an answer that speaks to your individual situation. Nor is it proper she should be the one asking personal questions. That is the role of the pastor alone. He probably has designated someone (like me who coordinates RCIA) to do an initial interview, but eventually the priest will have to meet with you because only the priest can provide the pastoral care you need and decide on the timing of sacraments, because of all the issues that arise in families.

welcome home
it is a swim across this river and not accomplished lightly or quickly, the timing is in God’s hands. We are facilitators, not directors, of his action of grace.

Thank you. I didn’t think it would be her role to ask personal questions (such as if we have family history issues, etc.) and you make a good point that she is equipped for the basic questions, not delving into pastoral care issues.

It wasn’t her answer that bothered me at all, it was her lack of interest in answering my questions (basic ones such as when is RCIA? Who can help us find a class that we can attend?) and not suggesting, as was helpfully suggested here, to talk with the priest to find out more about our situation. We certainly aren’t looking for a quick swim or special treatment. We certainly weren’t thinking it would be quick and easy even to begin raising our children in the Catholic faith after not starting out that way. (Although, by the grace of God, our oldest has adjusted quite well to going to Mass, loves her Catholic Bible story book, and happily tells people we go to the Catholic church now.) I do understand now that perhaps she gets casual inquiries and wasn’t expecting us to be serious. It hadn’t yet occurred to me that anyone would ask for their children to be baptized unless they fully intended to raise them Catholic.

I appreciate what you said about the timing being in God’s hands. After discussing it more with my husband, we both felt it was a sign of us needing to meet more personally with our priest – not to get a different answer, but to discuss the situation and better understand the teachings. And while I wasn’t happy with the secretary’s way of answering, it wasn’t her answer that bothered me. And I think anyone that is committed wouldn’t let one bad phone conversation end the journey. Thank you again!

 

[Kaylisette]

It’s more than the commitment level. Issues with parts of the faith that are learned later or problems with previous marriages can put conversion off track. It is particularly tragic if a child is baptized into a church that the parents later choose is not for them. It isn’t the parish secretary’s place to delve into these areas. Definitely make an appointment with the priest so you can go over things with him and he can assess your family needs.

Yes, I will be making an appointment. I wish the secretary had suggested that. At any rate, we don’t have any issues of divorce, previous marriages, or issues with the Catholic faith that I can think of. I mean, I do know Catholics that don’t agree with certain teachings but as best as I know, we don’t share those disagreements. But thank you for sharing that … it will help us, as we talk to the priest, to be open to seeing if we have issues with the faith (I’m not sure what those would be) that would make it unwise for them to be baptized.

I agree that it would be tragic if we had them baptized and didn’t follow through. And I don’t expect anyone to believe me (I’m really not saying that sarcastically – I mean that I understand the limitations of knowing someone’s intentions just on their word) and I don’t think the secretary would care (again, not her business), but we would not have even gone to Mass if we weren’t committed and in as much agreement as we can understand (at this early stage) with the Catholic teachings. I’m not saying we don’t have a lot to learn – we do. But we aren’t coming in saying that this might be the right place or we agree with just some of the Catholic teachings. We don’t know it all, but we realize that the truth is the Truth. It’s up to us to be changed, not us to try to change the Church, if that makes any sense. Anyway, that’s what was going on in my head when I was upset about her demeanor and I really appreciate the help here in understanding her view better!