question about baptism

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Seems pretty clear to me:

He who believes and is Baptized will be saved."

Unless you twist it to your own destruction.
So let me muddy the water a little bit for you.

In Acts 8, about verse 37 or so Philip and the eunuch are traveling along the road and they come to some water, maybe a river or a small lake (the writer did not say)

So the eunuch asked Philip, “What is there to stop me for being baptized” ?

Philip answer “If you believe you may”

The eunuch then answered “I Believe the Jesus Christ in the Son of the Living God”

It is pretty clear that it is the act of believing that save and not baptism. Being baptized is only an act of being obedent to the Lord command to be baptized.
 
Allis…
It seems that because the word believe comes first, and then baptize, that you think believe is more important than baptize…

For someone of age, yes, we must believe, but notice that we must also be baptized. here is a prime example of some of the specifics… In Water, not that it is just a spiritual thing only, but that water plays a part

using this logic, it is impossible for anything to be equally important in any arena. This is because it is impossible to have two words occupy the same space in a sentence…

Its like saying in order to drive, I have to have a license, and I have to have a car…
By your logic, the license is more important… it is Less important for me to have a car.

However, the sentence gives us clues. it says believe and be baptised…

I could equally say Baptize and believe… The meaning is NOT changed unless you believe the order the words comes in plays a role…

IF however, you believe that the order is important, how did you know this? it is not written any where in the bible, even th bible says do not argue about words… So, this had to come from a separate, secret source… you had to be told…

IN essence, you believe something that is not in the bible, if we do not see what you see, it is because it has not been revealed to us, and thus… you become Gnostic…

The are equally important to someone above the age of reason… we must be baptized AND we must believe…

In Christ
 
Allis…
It seems that because the word believe comes first, and then baptize, that you think believe is more important than baptize…

However, the sentence gives us clues. it says believe and be baptised…

I could equally say Baptize and believe… The meaning is NOT changed unless you believe the order the words comes in plays a role…

IF however, you believe that the order is important, how did you know this?
In your opinion, could Pope Benedict declare a “day of Baptism for the world” Wherein he does something like: he consecrates the rain. And he says the rain will baptize anyone it falls on.
So on whoever the rain falls on this particular day, they will have everlasting life in heaven.
Would that scenerio be possible?
Could one person(POpe Benedict) bestow salvation on another by sprinkling them with water even if they don’t want to be baptized?
Or does salvation come from repentance and belief in Jesus as Messiah?
 
So let me muddy the water a little bit for you.

In Acts 8, about verse 37 or so Philip and the eunuch are traveling along the road and they come to some water, maybe a river or a small lake (the writer did not say)

So the eunuch asked Philip, “What is there to stop me for being baptized” ?

Philip answer “If you believe you may”

The eunuch then answered “I Believe the Jesus Christ in the Son of the Living God”

It is pretty clear that it is the act of believing that save and not baptism. Being baptized is only an act of being obedent to the Lord command to be baptized.
and the eunuch too was baptized. Peter did say baptism saves you.
Here what act says.

36 And as they went on their way, they came to a certain water; and the eunuch said: See, here is water: what doth hinder me from being baptized? 37 And Philip said: If thou believest with all thy heart, thou mayest. And he answering, said: I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. 38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still; and they went down into the water, both Philip and the eunuch: and he baptized him. 39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord took away Philip; and the eunuch saw him no more. And he went on his way rejoicing. 40 But Philip was found in Azotus; and passing through, he preached the gospel to all the cities, till he came to Caesarea. Acts 8:36-37.

"21 **Whereunto baptism being **of the like form, now saveth you also: not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the examination of a good conscience towards God by the resurrection of Jesus Christ. 1 Pet. 3:21

According to you, Baptism doesn’t saves. According to the Bible, baptism does. Who is right? the Bible or you?
 
As mentioned…

Again, you focus on the order of words

It is not an either or, which came first, it is a both and…

For someone of the age of reason… they must Believe AND be baptized…

You can’t JUST believe and this is sufficient, and you cant JUST be baptized and this be sufficient…

So, your scenario is impossible

In Christ
 
In your opinion, could Pope Benedict declare a “day of Baptism for the world” Wherein he does something like: he consecrates the rain. And he says the rain will baptize anyone it falls on.
This is very offensive. Why would the Pope consecrate the rain? The proper form of baptism is water either by pouring or emersion, and reciting it in the Trinitarian format (I baptize you, In the Name of the Father, And of the Son, and Of the Holy Spirit).

I think to suggest that a Pope like consecrate rain is a mockery of our Catholic faith. This is just mockery of baptism and totally disrespectful.
 
So let me muddy the water a little bit for you.

In Acts 8, about verse 37 or so Philip and the eunuch are traveling along the road and they come to some water, maybe a river or a small lake (the writer did not say)

So the eunuch asked Philip, “What is there to stop me for being baptized” ?

Philip answer “If you believe you may”

The eunuch then answered “I Believe the Jesus Christ in the Son of the Living God”

It is pretty clear that it is the act of believing that save and not baptism. Being baptized is only an act of being obedent to the Lord command to be baptized.
A profession of faith is required from anyone capable of making one, like an adult, before they can be licitly Baptized.
 
In your opinion, could Pope Benedict declare a “day of Baptism for the world” Wherein he does something like: he consecrates the rain. And he says the rain will baptize anyone it falls on.
So on whoever the rain falls on this particular day, they will have everlasting life in heaven.
Would that scenerio be possible?
Could one person(POpe Benedict) bestow salvation on another by sprinkling them with water even if they don’t want to be baptized?
Or does salvation come from repentance and belief in Jesus as Messiah?
Ordinary Sacraments are individual acts. The minister and the person receiving the Sacrament.
 
This is very offensive. Why would the Pope consecrate the rain? The proper form of baptism is water either by pouring or emersion, and reciting it in the Trinitarian format (I baptize you, In the Name of the Father, And of the Son, and Of the Holy Spirit).

I think to suggest that a Pope like consecrate rain is a mockery of our Catholic faith. This is just mockery of baptism and totally disrespectful.
I did not mean to be offensive or disrespectful. Sorry
I meant to illustrate the point that baptism is a choice made by the individual. Not by a third party, not even by a parent.
 
I did not mean to be offensive or disrespectful. Sorry
I meant to illustrate the point that baptism is a choice made by the individual. Not by a third party, not even by a parent.
For infant, a parent need to consent in behalf of the children much like the Jewish parent consent in behalf of the infant being circumcision. It doesn’t stop there because by the time the child reaches the age of reason, he is annointed with oil, we Catholics called Confirmation. But this Sacrament is for another topic…
 
For infant, a parent need to consent in behalf of the children much like the Jewish parent consent in behalf of the infant being circumcision. It doesn’t stop there because by the time the child reaches the age of reason, he is annointed with oil, we Catholics called Confirmation. But this Sacrament is for another topic…
An infant in danger of death is to be Baptized even without the consent of either parent.
 
There are about one hundred and fifty verses in the New Testament that say that salvation is by faith and do not mention baptism
The Sacrament of Baptism

Many people believe that baptism is merely a symbolic act that one performs before the community of believers as an outward sign of an inward decision to accept Christ as one’s “personal Lord and Savior”. Is this view biblical or does God view baptism differently? Let’s see what the Bible has to say.

Baptism Commanded by Jesus

John 3:5
5 Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.”

Some argue that in this verse, “born of water” refers to the placenta fluid of physical birth. However, there is no scriptural basis for this interpretation. Instead, as the references from Ezekiel and the New Testament passages make clear, the “water” connected with the Holy Spirit is the water of the sacrament of baptism – not that of physical birth. Jesus’ words, understood properly, tell us that unless one is “born of baptism and the Spirit” he cannot enter the kingdom of God. This point is underscored by the fact that Jesus and the disciples went out to baptize immediately following this verse.

Titus 3:5
He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit

Rebirth? As in “born again”? Renewal by the Holy Spirit? Isn’t that regeneration?

Matthew 28:19
19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

In this passage containing the very last instructions Jesus gave His disciples, we see how important baptism was to Him. He did not say, “Go and make disciples of all nations, teaching them to accept me as their personal Lord and Savior and baptizing them as an outward symbol of this inward acceptance…”

Baptism Saves

Mark 16:16
16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Romans 6:3-4
Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

1 Peter 3:18-22
18 For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, 19 through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison 20 who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.

Baptism Washes Away Sin

Acts 2:38-39
38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”

At Pentecost, Peter told the crowd to “be baptized…for the forgiveness of…sins.” After that, “you will receive…the Holy Spirit”. Once again, we see the elements of Water and Spirit…just as Ezekiel prophesied. Note too, that this promise is for “you and your children” – a clear endorsement of infant baptism.

Acts 22:16
16 And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name. (Acts 22:16)

(cont.)
 
Baptism Makes Us Part of the Body of Christ

1 Corinthians 12:13
13 For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.

Galatians 3:26-27
26 You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.

Colossians 2:11-12
11 In him you were also circumcised, in the putting off of the sinful nature, not with a circumcision done by the hands of men but with the circumcision done by Christ, 12 having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead.

Baptism is Related to Impartation of the Holy Spirit

Ezekiel 36:25-27
25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.

In this Old Testament passage, the prophet clearly speaks of the sacrament of baptism that was to come. Notice the elements: water is sprinkled, the person is actually made clean (not merely imputed to be or called clean), and they receive a new spirit along with the gift of the Holy Spirit. Ezekiel makes a connection between washing in Water and the receipt of the Spirit of God.

However, sometimes when the Old Testament is referenced, people will say, “Well, we follow the New Testament.” in an attempt to dismiss an Old Testament passage. They need to remember the following words from the New Testament:

2 Timothy 3:16-17
16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Consequently, we can see that all of the Bible must be taken into account when we seek to understand doctrine.

From these passages, we can see that water baptism is connected very closely with the receipt of the Holy Spirit, that baptism washes away sin, that baptism saves us, and that baptism is commanded by Jesus. Therefore, baptism can hardly be viewed as a merely symbolic.

Hope this helps. :tiphat:
 
Act 13; 39
“And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as any as were ordained to eternal life believed.”

** Not baptized, just believe**

Seems pretty clear to me
 
Act 13; 39
“And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as any as were ordained to eternal life believed.”

**** Not baptized, just believe

Seems pretty clear to me
Please, allischalmers; haven’t you by now outgrown the juvenile tactic of concentrating on one verse ( to the exclusion of all the others that have thus far been mentioned) as a proof text?

Act’s 13 does **NOT **go on to say: “And those who believed decided not to get baptised because it doesn’t do anything anyway.” It is actually silent on what these believers did subsequently. But we do know from other Scriptures (including those mentioned in this thread and others, like Mark 16:16) and from the constant teaching of the Church from the earliest days to now that baptism and faith (including obedience) go together. Not just baptism. Not just faith. BUT BOTH.

Seems pretty clear to me.😃
 
Act 13; 39
“And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as any as were ordained to eternal life believed.”

**** Not baptized, just believe

Seems pretty clear to me
Acts 22:19 - And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name.’

I suppose you’re going to explain how that verse doesn’t say that baptism washes away sins…

1 Peter 3:21 - Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

And I reckon this verse doesn’t really say that baptism saves…

🤷
 
An infant in danger of death is to be Baptized even without the consent of either parent.
I read that as well. I recall Fr. Corapi told a story of a still born infant… before his life expired… the doctor baptized the infant before he died.
 
concentrating on one verse ( to the exclusion of all the others that have thus far been mentioned) as a proof text?
This was a HUGE part of the reason I’m no longer Baptist. Too many verses were being ignored or explained away to mean something totally opposed to what the text actually says. You had to be baptized if you wanted your vote to count at business meetings, but it didn’t do diddly-squat for your soul. :confused:
 
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allischalmers:
Not when you truly understand what the writer means

Yes of course j.

“He who believes and is Baptized will be saved” can’t possibly mean “He who believes and is Baptized will be saved.”

This was just secret code that the apostles used to confuse the uninitiated.

It really means “through faith alone we are saved.”

Just like: “You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone” “really” means “through faith alone we are saved.”

In fact fully 1/2 the verses in the bible mean "“through faith alone we are saved,” the other half mean “the bible is the sole rule of faith.”

Now if I could just get a list of which half are which.

Chuck
 
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