Question about Celibacy for Protestants and Converts

[AlwaysCurious]

In your native faith tradition, how was celibacy presented? (I am referring to purposeful, lifelong celibacy for the sake of the Kingdom.) Was it encouraged? Was it even mentioned?

When I was an evangelical Protestant, I don’t think I ever heard a single sermon or Sunday School lesson on this topic. We talked about celibacy until marriage, but marriage was an assumption. You were supposed to be praying for your future spouse, because everyone has a future spouse. If you don’t marry, well maybe that’s permissible, but you’re missing out big-time. Even “singles ministry” was a means of gathering all the unmarried people together so hopefully they’d pair off and stop being unmarried.

Matthew 19:11-12 was one of those passages I don’t remember ever “seeing” until I started to investigate Catholicism: “Jesus replied, ‘Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others—and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.’” I do remember arguing with my cousin (who is now a pastor) about Paul’s words about celibacy and marriage in 1 Corinthians; his position was that Paul believed the world was about to end, so marriage was just a distraction. Since Paul was wrong, that passage is essentially irrelevant for us now, or so my cousin argued.

At any rate, I was wondering if anyone else had similar or different experiences with this. For me it was one more example of how the Catholic Church deals with the totality of Scripture instead of fragments.

 

[FabiusMaximus]

In your native faith tradition, how was celibacy presented? (I am referring to purposeful, lifelong celibacy for the sake of the Kingdom.) Was it encouraged? Was it even mentioned?

When I was an evangelical Protestant, I don’t think I ever heard a single sermon or Sunday School lesson on this topic. We talked about celibacy until marriage, but marriage was an assumption. You were supposed to be praying for your future spouse, because everyone has a future spouse. If you don’t marry, well maybe that’s permissible, but you’re missing out big-time. Even “singles ministry” was a means of gathering all the unmarried people together so hopefully they’d pair off and stop being unmarried.

Matthew 19:11-12 was one of those passages I don’t remember ever “seeing” until I started to investigate Catholicism: “Jesus replied, ‘Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others—and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.’” I do remember arguing with my cousin (who is now a pastor) about Paul’s words about celibacy and marriage in 1 Corinthians; his position was that Paul believed the world was about to end, so marriage was just a distraction. Since Paul was wrong, that passage is essentially irrelevant for us now, or so my cousin argued.

At any rate, I was wondering if anyone else had similar or different experiences with this. For me it was one more example of how the Catholic Church deals with the totality of Scripture instead of fragments.

I grew up in a Pentecostal church. Celibacy was never discussed. The closest was abstinence until marriage, which of course is something entirely different.

By the way: if I’m correct, certain rites of the Catholic Church do allow priests to get married, right? And technically, the norm that prohibits it in the Latin Rite could theoretically change at any time since it’s not dogma, right? Or am I wrong?

 

[AlwaysCurious]

I grew up in a Pentecostal church. Celibacy was never discussed. The closest was abstinence until marriage, which of course is something entirely different.

By the way: if I’m correct, certain rites of the Catholic Church do allow priests to get married, right? And technically, the norm that prohibits it in the Latin Rite could theoretically change at any time since it’s not dogma, right? Or am I wrong?

As I understand it, you are correct on both counts.

 

[JohnnyReb]

Celebacy was and typically even discussed or valued in the Evangelical tradition in which I was raised. It might have been seen as unnatural at best and strange or weird at worst.

 

[Kristin234]

Celibacy has been brought up a couple of times in my church. Most people in my church do get married but there are a few who remain celibate. Someone I know who is celibate says he chose to do this because he wants to dedicate his whole life to Christ. He goes on a lot of missionary trips and is always doing something to help others out so it wouldn’t be wise or fair to have a family when he would either never be home or wouldn’t be too happy because he wouldn’t be able to continue doing what he does.

My friend is in seminary school and he also wants to remain celibate for the same reasons and my mother’s friend who is 65 has never been married for the same reason. Getting married is the norm but the ones who do choose to remain celibate are definitely not looked down on.

 

[rebecca123]

Yes, it was usually that we should stay celibate until marriage, however, I remember hearing about how God would call some “very special” people to never marry.

There are quite a few single never married women who are evangelicals on the mission fields throughout the world. And I do think it is a struggle because of how the protestant church overall does not support this calling.

I wonder how much of it has to do with the fact that most all pastors are married with kids. In the protestant realm. While the priests remain celibate and single. I think there is a lot of honor in that and I hope it never changes. When I see the priest I think there is a man of God who has sacrificed his own plans and rights for Christ and the Church.

 

[Aelred_Minor]

I grew up in the United Methodist Church. I don’t recall celibacy ever being mentioned. Methodists of course have married (sometimes many times) clergy. I never recall it being mentioned in any kind of anti-Catholic way either.

 

[nickybr38]

I was raised hopping between different denominations and it was the same in every one we attended. Celibacy was to be practiced until marriage but marriage was THE ultimate goal. I remember that used to frustrate me so much. What if I wanted to be single? What if I was happy being single? It didn’t matter! Marriage was IT for everyone and if you weren’t married clearly you were miserable with life. That’s how pretty much everyone seemed to view it.

I love, LOVE my new faith and the fact that here a person can choose to be single and instead of it being a great burden it’s a blessing. Of course, actual Catholics I talk to don’t necessarily share this view but I know the Church does and that’s enough for me!

 

[Aelred_Minor]

By the way: if I’m correct, certain rites of the Catholic Church do allow priests to get married, right? And technically, the norm that prohibits it in the Latin Rite could theoretically change at any time since it’s not dogma, right? Or am I wrong?

In no corner of the Church, nor in the Orthodox Church I believe, are priests (or deacons) allowed to get married. What varies is whether a man who is already married is allowed to be ordained. Also bishops must always be celibate. Currently, most though not all Eastern Catholic Churches allow married men to be ordained to the priesthood. In the Latin Rite Church this is only allowed in very rare circumstances, like an Anglican priest who is converting and is approved to become a priest despite being married. There is currently some controversy over whether such married clergy- both priests and deacons- are in the Latin Rite Church required nevertheless to be observe the general rule of clerical continence. In general the law has been implemented as if such a requirement does not exist for married clergy.

But again, in no case may a deacon or priest marry. If a married deacon or priest’s wife dies, he may not remarry, but is now bound to celibacy because he is ordained.

Theoretically the Latin Rite Church and the Eastern Catholic Churches with stronger celibacy laws could change their policies to allow married men to routinely be admitted to the priesthood. In my opinion this is very unlikely to occur in the Latin Rite Church due to the theology behind regarding celibacy as entirely appropriate for the priesthood, even though not strictly doctrinally required from a moral or sacramental standpoint.

 

[Fone_Bone_2001]

By the way: if I’m correct, certain rites of the Catholic Church do allow priests to get married, right? And technically, the norm that prohibits it in the Latin Rite could theoretically change at any time since it’s not dogma, right? Or am I wrong?

You’re correct, but even if the whole Catholic Church ordained married men to the priesthood (and that’s extremely unlikely to happen in the Latin Church), that still would not erase the high regard the Church holds for celibacy:

(1) Church teaching on the value of celibate vocations would remain
(2) Bishops would still have to be celibate, as they basically always have in all corners of the Catholic Church throughout history
(3) The religious life - the Church’s monks and nuns would still live celibate lives.

I love, LOVE my new faith and the fact that here a person can choose to be single and instead of it being a great burden it’s a blessing. Of course, actual Catholics I talk to don’t necessarily share this view but I know the Church does and that’s enough for me!

Indeed.

Celibacy has been brought up a couple of times in my church. Most people in my church do get married but there are a few who remain celibate. Someone I know who is celibate says he chose to do this because he wants to dedicate his whole life to Christ. He goes on a lot of missionary trips and is always doing something to help others out so it wouldn’t be wise or fair to have a family when he would either never be home or wouldn’t be too happy because he wouldn’t be able to continue doing what he does.

My friend is in seminary school and he also wants to remain celibate for the same reasons and my mother’s friend who is 65 has never been married for the same reason. Getting married is the norm but the ones who do choose to remain celibate are definitely not looked down on.

That’s wonderful. I’m glad people in your church are open-minded about different callings from God.

I think even the Catholic Church expects that most people will get married as a matter of pragmatism. Pope Benedict in a recent trip urged young people to consider marriage.

 

[Nicea325]

Celibacy has been brought up a couple of times in my church. Most people in my church do get married but there are a few who remain celibate. Someone I know who is celibate says he chose to do this because he wants to dedicate his whole life to Christ. He goes on a lot of missionary trips and is always doing something to help others out so it wouldn’t be wise or fair to have a family when he would either never be home or wouldn’t be too happy because he wouldn’t be able to continue doing what he does.

My friend is in seminary school and he also wants to remain celibate for the same reasons and my mother’s friend who is 65 has never been married for the same reason. Getting married is the norm but the ones who do choose to remain celibate are definitely not looked down on.

Exactly! St.Paul himself was not married and celibate gave his whole life to the service of God. There is absolutely nothing unbiblical about celibacy. Why would it be? Jesus is our first example.

 

[Nicea325]

Yes, it was usually that we should stay celibate until marriage, however, I remember hearing about how God would call some “very special” people to never marry.

There are quite a few single never married women who are evangelicals on the mission fields throughout the world. And I do think it is a struggle because of how the protestant church overall does not support this calling.

I wonder how much of it has to do with the fact that most all pastors are married with kids. In the protestant realm. While the priests remain celibate and single. I think there is a lot of honor in that and I hope it never changes. When I see the priest I think there is a man of God who has sacrificed his own plans and rights for Christ and the Church.

Amen! Much like St.Paul…

 

[FabiusMaximus]

You’re correct, but even if the whole Catholic Church ordained married men to the priesthood (and that’s extremely unlikely to happen in the Latin Church), that still would not erase the high regard the Church holds for celibacy:

(1) Church teaching on the value of celibate vocations would remain
(2) Bishops would still have to be celibate, as they basically always have in all corners of the Catholic Church throughout history
(3) The religious life - the Church’s monks and nuns would still live celibate lives.

Personally celibacy is not something I’m very interested in, because, I don’t plan on joining any Catholic priesthood and therefore not have to worry about it. Plus it’s a personal choice not forced upon anyone.

I can understand about bishops and monks and nuns being celibate, although I don’t see the harm really in allowing married men to be ordained priests.

But then again I’m not Roman Catholic so I have no right to tell them what to do.

 

[Nicea325]

Personally celibacy is not something I’m very interested in, because, I don’t plan on joining any Catholic priesthood and therefore not have to worry about it. Plus it’s a personal choice not forced upon anyone

.

Precisely. It is a choice and for some a calling from God. Both marriage and celibacy are gifts from God.

I can understand about bishops and monks and nuns being celibate, although I don’t see the harm really in allowing married men to be ordained priests.

Actually the Eastern Rites allow their priests to marry,however,they cannot be bishops,since bishops must be single and celibate. However, in the Latn Rite it is a discipline,not doctrine, which can be changed, if the church so chooses.

But then again I’m not Roman Catholic so I have no right to tell them what to do.

You will be surprised how many Catholics in the Latin Rite want to the church to allow them to marry.

 

[Esdra]

You’re correct, but even if the whole Catholic Church ordained married men to the priesthood (and that’s extremely unlikely to happen in the Latin Church), that still would not erase the high regard the Church holds for celibacy:

(1) Church teaching on the value of celibate vocations would remain
(2) Bishops would still have to be celibate, as they basically always have in all corners of the Catholic Church throughout history
(3) The religious life - the Church’s monks and nuns would still live celibate lives.

Indeed.

One question to point (2): Bishops always have been celibate in Church history?
What about Timothy then in 1 Timothy 3:2 *)? I thought he was a bishop and Paul clearly writes that a bishop needs to be “faithful to his wife”?
So in the Early Catholic Church it seems to have been custom that a bishop is married, or at least it was possible.

*) “A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;” (1 Tim 3:2 - KJV)

I do understand point (3) 'though. I really have great respect of nuns and monks who really give up their lives for Christ in that way.

That’s wonderful. I’m glad people in your church are open-minded about different callings from God.

I think even the Catholic Church expects that most people will get married as a matter of pragmatism. Pope Benedict in a recent trip urged young people to consider marriage.

 

[hn160]

Do you think that if the Catholic Church would open the priesthood to married men that would eliminate the priest shortage in parts of the country?

 

[Nicea325]

Do you think that if the Catholic Church would open the priesthood to married men that would eliminate the priest shortage in parts of the country?

Not necessarily. And why? Because it is not a question of being married,but a question: Is it my calling to be a priest? A married man has to take into consideration all the duties and responsibilities of a priest,regardless if he is married. Can he handle it? Is he willing to place his ministry first? See my point?

In many ways it can be similar to the military. Not all men are willing to join. Many always ask me: Why did you join the Air Force? I am the only one in my family that served in the military. Either one hears the call and responds or has no desire to be a service member.

 

[Fone_Bone_2001]

One question to point (2): Bishops always have been celibate in Church history?

What about Timothy then in 1 Timothy 3:2 *)? I thought he was a bishop and Paul clearly writes that a bishop needs to be “faithful to his wife”?
So in the Early Catholic Church it seems to have been custom that a bishop is married, or at least it was possible.

*) “A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;” (1 Tim 3:2 - KJV)

Indeed - that’s why I said “basically always.” I didn’t mean to imply that there has never been a married bishop. Very early on in the Church’s history, a discipline of episcopal celibacy developed and is still the standard in the whole Catholic Church (western and eastern) and even, I believe, in the Orthodox Church as well.

Priestly celibacy, by contrast, is of course mandatory only in the Latin Church (and exceptions are often made in certain cases, like a married Anglican priest who converts to the Catholic faith)

I do understand point (3) 'though. I really have great respect of nuns and monks who really give up their lives for Christ in that way.

Yes, they amaze and inspire me!

 

[FabiusMaximus]

Indeed - that’s why I said “basically always.” I didn’t mean to imply that there has never been a married bishop. Very early on in the Church’s history, a discipline of episcopal celibacy developed and is still the standard in the whole Catholic Church (western and eastern) and even, I believe, in the Orthodox Church as well.

Priestly celibacy, by contrast, is of course mandatory only in the Latin Church (and exceptions are often made in certain cases, like a married Anglican priest who converts to the Catholic faith)

Isn’t it a little unfair though, to mandate that those who are Catholics and become priests on their own may not marry before ordination, but the Church then turns around and allows former Anglican priests with a family to be a marred priest in the Latin Rite?

 

[vsedriver]

Personally celibacy is not something I’m very interested in, because, I don’t plan on joining any Catholic priesthood and therefore not have to worry about it.

so you plan to remain celibate until marriage?