Question about cells in relation to abortion

[Tous_Logous]

I’m hoping this is the correct forum for this question (or “questions”)…

Usually when I come across people who are pro-abortion/pro-murder I am told that a human baby is not a “baby” until it is born. Therefore, it is just a “clump of cells” in mommy’s womb, or it is just a “clump of cells” until it gets to the stage in development where it is considered “alive.”

Now I am a physical scientist, not a biological scientist. But from what I remember from my entry-level biology courses in my undergrad years, cells are the smallest units of life that are actually considered “living things,” ie “alive.”

So, I’m confused. Essentially just by saying a baby is a “clump of cells” means that we are in fact, stating that they are “alive.” Because cells after all, are classified as “living.” If a “clump of cells” sitting in mommy’s womb is not alive, then what is this “clump of cells?” Are the clumps sleeping? Are they considered “dead?” I am also by that definition, considered a “clump of cells.” I certain exhibit all the characteristics of being “alive.”…does this mean that therefore I am also “dead?”

What is the Catholic, moral theological/scientific(?) responses or answers to my questions? I feel like that I need to be able to give good, solid but Catholic answers to these questions, especially when I get people telling me “science says ___ about abortion.”

 

[GRATEFULONEjim]

Catholics believe life begins at the moment of conception, which I personally don’t see how anyone on the face of the earth could argue with. To the best of my knowledge and recollection, I have never know of a situation where the unitive act of marriage, between a man and a woman, has ever produced anything other than a human being.

 

[bben15]

There really is no distinction between whether that “clump of cells” is outside or inside the mother. We shouldn’t judge a human based on where its place of residence is. Actually, babies, toddlers, teenagers, and adults are also “clumps of cells.” The only difference is age and size. At the time they are aborted, they may not have a beating heart, but the important thing to remember is, they will eventually have a beating heart. That’s why it is considered murder.

God Bless.

 

[Peter_Plato]

I’m hoping this is the correct forum for this question (or “questions”)…

Usually when I come across people who are pro-abortion/pro-murder I am told that a human baby is not a “baby” until it is born. Therefore, it is just a “clump of cells” in mommy’s womb, or it is just a “clump of cells” until it gets to the stage in development where it is considered “alive.”

Now I am a physical scientist, not a biological scientist. But from what I remember from my entry-level biology courses in my undergrad years, cells are the smallest units of life that are actually considered “living things,” ie “alive.”

So, I’m confused. Essentially just by saying a baby is a “clump of cells” means that we are in fact, stating that they are “alive.” Because cells after all, are classified as “living.” If a “clump of cells” sitting in mommy’s womb is not alive, then what is this “clump of cells?” Are the clumps sleeping? Are they considered “dead?” I am also by that definition, considered a “clump of cells.” I certain exhibit all the characteristics of being “alive.”…does this mean that therefore I am also “dead?”

What is the Catholic, moral theological/scientific(?) responses or answers to my questions? I feel like that I need to be able to give good, solid but Catholic answers to these questions, especially when I get people telling me “science says ___ about abortion.”

The “clump of cells” description is a fatuous one because even adult humans can be considered a “clump of cells.” A very complex and sophisticated clump, but a clump nonetheless. Would that, according to your interlocutors, justify killing adult humans as well, then? So the mere fact of being a “clump” - whatever that means - is what justifies, to them, the killing of a living thing?

A further point that could be made is that even one cell is an incredibly complex living organism with hundreds and even thousands nano scale protein machines that carry out an incredible array of processes that far outdo even the most complex human technology or facility. Describing a group of embryonic cells as a “clump” is dismissive at best and definitely demonstrates complete ignorance of biology and biochemistry. It would be like justifying the wanton destruction of the Boeing facility in Everett, Washington as “just a clump” of electronics, concrete and metal.

Anyone who makes the claim that, “Science says ______ about abortion…” is simply giving their opinion and calling it science. Science cannot render any verdict about the rightness or wrongness of abortion - that is a moral issue. What science can do is provide evidence concerning biological development and growth. Anything more than that is making a category error regarding the application of science.

 

[mark_a]

What is the Catholic, moral theological/scientific(?) responses or answers to my questions? I feel like that I need to be able to give good, solid but Catholic answers to these questions, especially when I get people telling me “science says ___ about abortion.”

I think you have some pretty good responses here:

So, I’m confused. Essentially just by saying a baby is a “clump of cells” means that we are in fact, stating that they are “alive.” Because cells after all, are classified as “living.” If a “clump of cells” sitting in mommy’s womb is not alive, then what is this “clump of cells?” Are the clumps sleeping? Are they considered “dead?” I am also by that definition, considered a “clump of cells.” I certain exhibit all the characteristics of being “alive.”…does this mean that therefore I am also “dead?”

 

[buffalo]

"
“The process is astonishingly simple. In the embryo’s first moments, the Hox genes are dormant, packaged like a spool of wound yarn on the DNA. When the time is right, the strand begins to unwind. When the embryo begins to form the upper levels, the genes encoding the formation of cervical vertebrae come off the spool and become activated. Then it is the thoracic vertebrae’s turn, and so on down to the tailbone. The DNA strand acts a bit like an old-fashioned computer punchcard, delivering specific instructions as it progressively goes through the machine.” “A new gene comes out of the spool every ninety minutes, which corresponds to the time needed for a new layer of the embryo to be built,” explains Duboule. “It takes two days for the strand to completely unwind; this is the same time that’s needed for all the layers of the embryo to be completed.” This system is the first “mechanical” clock ever discovered in genetics. And it explains why the system is so remarkably precise." Source

 

[Jeanne_S]

There really is no distinction between whether that “clump of cells” is outside or inside the mother. We shouldn’t judge a human based on where its place of residence is. Actually, babies, toddlers, teenagers, and adults are also “clumps of cells.” The only difference is age and size. At the time they are aborted, they may not have a beating heart, but the important thing to remember is, they will eventually have a beating heart. That’s why it is considered murder.

God Bless.

A baby in the embryonic stage,has a beating heart at four weeks.My guess is most babies aborted have a beating heart!

 

[edwest2]

I’m hoping this is the correct forum for this question (or “questions”)…

Usually when I come across people who are pro-abortion/pro-murder I am told that a human baby is not a “baby” until it is born. Therefore, it is just a “clump of cells” in mommy’s womb, or it is just a “clump of cells” until it gets to the stage in development where it is considered “alive.”

Now I am a physical scientist, not a biological scientist. But from what I remember from my entry-level biology courses in my undergrad years, cells are the smallest units of life that are actually considered “living things,” ie “alive.”

So, I’m confused. Essentially just by saying a baby is a “clump of cells” means that we are in fact, stating that they are “alive.” Because cells after all, are classified as “living.” If a “clump of cells” sitting in mommy’s womb is not alive, then what is this “clump of cells?” Are the clumps sleeping? Are they considered “dead?” I am also by that definition, considered a “clump of cells.” I certain exhibit all the characteristics of being “alive.”…does this mean that therefore I am also “dead?”

What is the Catholic, moral theological/scientific(?) responses or answers to my questions? I feel like that I need to be able to give good, solid but Catholic answers to these questions, especially when I get people telling me “science says ___ about abortion.”

The Catholic Church teaches that a human being exists at the moment the sperm and egg unite. Everyone reading this began life as a human embryo, a unique human being. Ask any embryologist.

princeton.edu/~prolife/articles/embryoquotes2.html

naapc.org/why-life-begins-at-conception

Peace,
Ed

 

[bben15]

A baby in the embryonic stage,has a beating heart at four weeks.My guess is most babies aborted have a beating heart!

I pray every day that this slaughter will end.

 

[GWright]

I
What is the Catholic, moral theological/scientific(?) responses or answers to my questions?

Catholics hold that life begins at conception, and this is a proven fact via the science of human embryology.

At the moment of conception, a new form of life is created. The new form of life has 46 chromosomes, 23 each from their mothers egg and from their fathers sperm.

A form of life with 46 Chromosomes is defined by science as a human being.

When the states legalised abortion, the roe v wade court-case didn’t try to deny that it was discussing a human being, rather it claimed abortion was OK because this human being was not a person. (!?!?)

However, at the moment of conception, everything unique about the new person already exists. They already have their own DNA, eye and hair colour. They have their own gender. How crooked or straight their teeth are is already defined. etc etc Sounds like a person to me.

Abortion is murder and the arguments which attempt to justify it are anti-scientific, inhumane bunk.

 

[livingwordunity]

Speaking of cells, science has discovered that when a mother is pregnant the cells of her fetus (aka baby) migrate to her brain and stay there for the rest of her life. This happens whether she keeps the baby or not. That’s ironic since the women who get an abortion think they are getting rid of their baby. Here’s a link to the article about it: Scientists Discover Children’s Cells Living in Mothers’ Brains