Question about children in the Divine Liturgy

[Millie123]

I’ve been following a thread in another forum where there have been a few who have stated their opinion that small children should be left out of mass until they can be quiet and sit still through the mass. To be honest this has left me with the feeling by a few people that small children are not welcomed in mass. For me personally, I have one child and leaving my son out of mass is unthinkable (it just doesn’t make sense to me). I’ve never attended the Divine Liturgy before, but I’m just curious if Eastern Catholics have also experienced this similar attitude in their churches, if any have felt like their children are not welcomed, or their toddlers are not allowed to behave like toddlers?

 

[WetCatechumen]

I’ve been following a thread in another forum where there have been a few who have stated their opinion that small children should be left out of mass until they can be quiet and sit still through the mass. To be honest this has left me with the feeling by a few people that small children are not welcomed in mass. For me personally, I have one child and leaving my son out of mass is unthinkable (it just doesn’t make sense to me). I’ve never attended the Divine Liturgy before, but I’m just curious if Eastern Catholics have also experienced this similar attitude in their churches, if any have felt like their children are not welcomed, or their toddlers are not allowed to behave like toddlers?

In the churches I’ve visited and the one I attend, people have their children with them during Liturgy. We do not have a cry room.

Seeing as all our parishioners, from the newly born to the elderly, receive Holy Communion, it wouldn’t make any sense not to have the children with us at Liturgy.

 

[Symeon]

That’s just a wrong attitude. Small children have as much right as anyone to be there. “Let the little children come to me!” It’s true that parents need to train their children to behave properly in church and minimize annoying cries, etc… But by no means should children be made to stay at home. Also, as mentioned above, in eastern Churches infants are fully initiated into the faith with baptism, chrismation (i.e. confirmation), and communion, and continue to receive communion.

If you have an eastern catholic parish nearby, by all means come for a visit with all your son.

 

[MorEphrem]

I think suggesting children do not come to liturgy is because many individuals misunderstand prayer and think that it must be (1) completely accessible, (2) completely silent and (3) completely for oneself. However, the Eastern Churches don’t have such a mentality. I have some relevant anecdotes but I’ll leave it simply at the fact that it’s unhealthy to segregate the Body of Christ.

 

[Thomas48]

The easy solution is that every church should have a cry room installed. It simply solves the problem of children that may get to loud.

 

[TerryJT]

Young children making noise and fussing at Mass are, to quote our Bishop… “a hymn to the future”.

“Let the children come unto me, and hinder them not.”

God bless their parents for not getting discouraged, and for continuing to bring them into the presence of their God.

 

[Aramis]

In the churches I’ve visited and the one I attend, people have their children with them during Liturgy. We do not have a cry room.

Seeing as all our parishioners, from the newly born to the elderly, receive Holy Communion, it wouldn’t make any sense not to have the children with us at Liturgy.

Same here, and agreed.

 

[malphono]

That’s just a wrong attitude. Small children have as much right as anyone to be there. “Let the little children come to me!” It’s true that parents need to train their children to behave properly in church and minimize annoying cries, etc… But by no means should children be made to stay at home. Also, as mentioned above, in eastern Churches infants are fully initiated into the faith with baptism, chrismation (i.e. confirmation), and communion, and continue to receive communion.

If you have an eastern catholic parish nearby, by all means come for a visit with all your son.

I will agree but the bolded portion is, I think, important and is, in many places, very much an issue. We’ve always had lots of kids in church, and while it was never much of a problem in the “old days” it is now. Not really with infants, (most parents are, even these days, sensitive to crying, etc), but it can be a huge problem with toddlers and even those slightly older. Children running up and down the aisles, while the parents just sit there thinking “oh how cute” is unacceptable. IOW, it’s not the kids who are the problem, but rather the parents.

 

[Brendan_64]

Leaving children out of Mass is not the answer nor is having a ‘cry room’.

Children can be trained to behave appropriately at Mass if they are taken to Mass from infancy and so long as the parents enforce clear expectations of what acceptable behaviour involves. Too often, nowadays, there seems to be a prevailing attitude amongst many parents that, “They’re only children” and they tolerate their children running up and down the aisles, running onto the sanctuary, playing with toys, crawling under the pews, chatting with each other and generally treating the church as an extended playroom.

Children can behave properly at Mass if the parents consistently enforce standards of what is acceptable and don’t give an inch. Many children do behave like this. And then look at how young children behave if they are taken to Mass by their school; they sit properly and don’t put a foot wrong (not so much as a whisper in many cases) because they know they will be in serious trouble with their teacher if they mess around at Mass.

Cry rooms and leaving children out of mass are not the answers. Some parents need to toughen up a bit, insist on acceptable behaviour from their child at Mass, and apply sanctions if their children don’t comply.

 

[Rafkqa]

We have a liturgy at a particular time on Sunday which everyone knows is in English and is aimed at young families. We actually note it in our newsletter as such. Of course anyone is able to attend, but anyone who attends soon learns, lots of children attend, including newborns and sometimes they cry and sometimes that Liturgy is a little louder than others (and those who don’t like it usually just attend at another time).

We have no cry room and we can have anywhere from 100 to 200 young families attend on Sunday. However we constantly do things as a reminder to parents and children about what is expected at liturgy. For example on Hosanna Sunday we included a one page article in the Parish newsletter about tips for bringing young children to the liturgy, (knowing Hosanna Sunday is the Sunday when the most families attend). We were very positive (giving parents tips about what it is that they should do, rather than what they should not do) It was very well received and we now make it available at various times throughout the year. Our priest is also very mindful of the issue and often uses silence as a way to calm everything down and refocus. He also reminds children to focus at various points (but never singling out anyone.) Because the liturgy is focused on young families, it has created a strong sense of community and a close Parish family.

Attendance for children on a Sunday (other than being a requirement) is also a key part of their faith formation. Leaving children out of a mass is not only bizzare to me, but impractical. What are parents supposed to do in the time when they are being left out of mass - leave them at home to babysit themselves?

Happy to PM the link to the article for anyone who might be interested…

 

[theistgal]

Speaking for myself, as a cantor it is a joy to look down from the choir loft and see children! Sometimes they’re sitting attentively in the pews, sometimes they’re playing in the aisles (during the Homily! ) and yes, sometimes they’re crying. But they’re part of our family and frankly I don’t think Liturgy would be as much fun if they were all locked away in a “cry room”!

 

[ronyodish]

Speaking for myself, as a cantor it is a joy to look down from the choir loft and see children! Sometimes they’re sitting attentively in the pews, sometimes they’re playing in the aisles (during the Homily! ) and yes, sometimes they’re crying. But they’re part of our family and frankly I don’t think Liturgy would be as much fun if they were all locked away in a “cry room”!

“Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven” (Matt. 18:3)

God bless,

Rony

 

[babochka]

The easy solution is that every church should have a cry room installed. It simply solves the problem of children that may get to loud.

But then it creates another problem of segregation. Parents with children are expected to go to the cry room for the entire Divine Liturgy/Mass, rather than simply use it as a place of retreat if necessary. I don’t have a problem with cry rooms, but I have been to many parishes in which it is expected that small children will be in the play… er… cry room.

 

[babochka]

I’ve been following a thread in another forum where there have been a few who have stated their opinion that small children should be left out of mass until they can be quiet and sit still through the mass. To be honest this has left me with the feeling by a few people that small children are not welcomed in mass. For me personally, I have one child and leaving my son out of mass is unthinkable (it just doesn’t make sense to me). I’ve never attended the Divine Liturgy before, but I’m just curious if Eastern Catholics have also experienced this similar attitude in their churches, if any have felt like their children are not welcomed, or their toddlers are not allowed to behave like toddlers?

I find it much easier to bring my children to Divine Liturgy than to Mass. I don’t know that they are better behaved, but since we are always singing, their little wiggles and squirms and whispers are less likely to be disruptive. We don’t have periods of silence in the Divine Liturgy as they do in the Roman Rite. There is more movement, more for the kids to see and nearly constant singing. It keeps the kids more engaged, and even when they have their little moments, it is less distracting.

We have a very small parish, we more children under 12 than adults most weeks. When my little ones are mildly fussy, I rarely need to leave. We walk around the church, kissing icons and singing the liturgy. On really bad days, we leave for the cry room, but usually come back once things are calmed down.

Children belong in the liturgy. Many will make the argument that they don’t “get anything out of it”, but they are being formed and learning how to pray, and of course in our churches, they receive Holy Communion.

I hope you have a chance to visit an Eastern Church soon.

 

[5Loaves]

I find it much easier to bring my children to Divine Liturgy than to Mass. I don’t know that they are better behaved, but since we are always singing, their little wiggles and squirms and whispers are less likely to be disruptive. We don’t have periods of silence in the Divine Liturgy as they do in the Roman Rite. There is more movement, more for the kids to see and nearly constant singing. It keeps the kids more engaged, and even when they have their little moments, it is less distracting.

Unfortunately these days the only little kids we get are visitors, of which one of your large families, babochka, was with us today, as well as another visiting couple with a just past toddler. We don’t have pews so they were a little bit wandering on foot, a little bit sitting on, or rolling on the oriental rug, a little bit just standing. It was wonderful and our parishioners were all so happy to have children there.

We are in a small chapel in a former convent, so lots of other rooms around. We have a hall outside the chapel with a room nearly as large as the chapel right across the hall. We set it up on purpose with another oriental carpet, and chairs, when we had a young baby in the parish and asked his parents if that would be something they would like. It’s entirely possible to hear the Liturgy from there. Mom used to sometimes go there to nurse. It isn’t intended as a cry room, but it is a place parents can go if THEY feel like they need it, not that we need them to leave.

I had to resist today putting our kissing icon of today’s saint, venerable Cyriacus the Hermit of Palestine down on the floor for them.

 

[Symeon]

I had to resist today putting our kissing icon of today’s saint, venerable Cyriacus the Hermit of Palestine down on the floor for them.

I know one nearby OCA parish that has a miniature 2-foot high analogion exactly for that purpose.