Question about confession

[quasimodo]

Where does the Bible say that “the church” is speaking of the priest alone?
Other places in the Bible, the church is referred to as the body of Christ.
Also, believers are referred to as the body of Christ.
So, believers are the church.
Forgive me for not being more clear, but believers are who I was speaking of in my first post. Not just anyone and everyone.
God gave his people, the church, the body of christ, believers, the power of forgvieness.
Again I ask, what is the necessity of a confessional?

And thank you for the welcome!

1. Historically, confession was done to the whole church - publicly. It did not work well.
2. the church, with the power to bind and loose and govern made changes over time and confession became a private affair between the penitent and the priest who stands in Persona Christi and represents the Church. This was largely in place by ~ 900AD
3. If it became prudent, the church could return to the practice of public confession before the entire assembly - she has the authority to do so.
4. when looking for the truth I suggest you follow seek out the pillar and foundation of truth … the Church (1Tim 3:15)

 

[NotWorthy]

1. Historically, confession was done to the whole church - publicly. It did not work well.
2. the church, with the power to bind and loose and govern made changes over time and confession became a private affair between the penitent and the priest who stands in Persona Christi and represents the Church. This was largely in place by ~ 900AD
3. If it became prudent, the church could return to the practice of public confession before the entire assembly - she has the authority to do so.
4. when looking for the truth I suggest you follow seek out the pillar and foundation of truth … the Church (1Tim 3:15)

Why didn’t public confession work well? Well, what if Mr. Johnson wanted to repent and confess of his affair with Mrs. Smith, but Mrs. Smith still wasn’t willing to repent and reveal this to Mr. Smith.

Yeah, public confession could cause quite the scandal if only 1/2 the sinners were confessing! But it made for some exciting Sunday afternoons, I’ll bet!!! “You what?!?!?” (Insert your best B-52’s impersonation here in 'love shack").

 

[quasimodo]

Why didn’t public confession work well? Well, what if Mr. Johnson wanted to repent and confess of his affair with Mrs. Smith, but Mrs. Smith still wasn’t willing to repent and reveal this to Mr. Smith.

Yeah, public confession could cause quite the scandal if only 1/2 the sinners were confessing! But it made for some exciting Sunday afternoons, I’ll bet!!! “You what?!?!?” (Insert your best B-52’s impersonation here in 'love shack").

Not only that but the penances tended to be monumental as the congregation occasionally wanted its pound of flesh …

“Mr. Smith apostatized to save his own skin while mom and dad remained faithful and became dog food … now he wants back into the church? 20 years of sack cloth and ashes is too good for the traitor!”

 

[mullenpm]

“if all you get is sanctifying grace?” I can’t believe you would say that.

 

[ShemariahBeans]

Who was present in John 20? It was the blessed Apostles - which then brings us to Apostolic succession.
The power to forgive sins was not given to all. First, Peter (Rock) confessed Christ as the Messiah, the Son of God. Jesus said that Peter had not received that from human understanding, but it had been revealed to him by his Father. And that on this Rock, Christ would build His church…
There are so many resources to read about this.
But what I am hearing is a reluctance to confess to another human being. When I am in the confessional, I am confessing to Christ. The priest is His minister. It is no holds barred, total honesty, total love. I see my sins as a barrier to a closer personal relationship to Jesus, and my ability to bear fruit.
I fly to confessional, it is a blessed sacrament.
My friend, remember that when you are in confession, you are in a good place.

 

[KingAlfred]

Don’t wanna hijack this thread, but help me out. Haven’t been to confession is a very, very long time. Will I get hundreds of prayers to recite as punishment?

 

[SwizzleStick]

No, not hundreds of prayers, maybe 3 Our Fathers and/or 3 Hail Marys. Or maybe you will be assigned to do a little bit of Scripture reading and reflecting. But, in my experience, penance is very light and nothing near “hundreds of prayers.”

 

[NotWorthy]

Don’t wanna hijack this thread, but help me out. Haven’t been to confession is a very, very long time. Will I get hundreds of prayers to recite as punishment?

Whatever you get, wouldn’t it be worth it?!?

God, I want my sins forgiven, but I don’t want to spend all day praying for it?

 

[jmcrae]

are you saying that if you are not catholic and dont go to confession you wont have eternal life with God in heaven?? even if you confessed to God and the person that you sinned against?

If it were a mortal sin (in essence, a sin that causes the death of the soul - examples are those sins that would have received a physical death penalty in the Old Testament - things like sex outside of marriage, perjury in court, dishonouring of parents, and the like), then no - unless the non-Catholic were to make a perfect Act of Contrition.

 

[jmcrae]

Don’t wanna hijack this thread, but help me out. Haven’t been to confession is a very, very long time. Will I get hundreds of prayers to recite as punishment?

Unlikely. When I was coming into the Church and making my life Confession (39 years, give or take) I was asked to pray one Our Father, and to read Luke chapter 15 in the Bible.

(My second Confession just a few days later got me a penance that took me five days to complete, however. So, the length of time between Confessions isn’t really the determining factor, I don’t think.)

I just got back from Confession, actually, and it’s actually true - it feels like my soul has just had a really good shower and scrub.

 

[Frinjaaa]

That Christians are ordinarily to obtain the forgiveness of their sins through the priests of the Church is inferred in James 5:14-15:
Is any among you sick? Let him call for the priests of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord; and the prayer of faith will save the sick man, and the Lord will raise him up; and if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.

It says that the priest will annoint him, it doesn’t say that the priest is the one forgiving the man.

I just got back from Confession, actually, and it’s actually true - it feels like my soul has just had a really good shower and scrub.

You people misunderstand where I am coming from.
I am not afraid of confessing and I do it daily. I just believe that I am able to confess directly to God. I am also able to forgive people who have done wrong toward me.
When Jesus died on the cross, he took away that barrier between me and God. All of my past, present, and future sins are forgiven and I have direct communication with God. I don’t need to go through a priest.
That joy you speak of, jmcrae, is a joy that I experience as well, but on the utmost personal level. It is not the business of a priest what sins I have commited. It is between me and God.

 

[NotWorthy]

When Jesus died on the cross, he took away that barrier between me and God. All of my past, present, and future sins are forgiven and I have direct communication with God. I don’t need to go through a priest.
That joy you speak of, jmcrae, is a joy that I experience as well, but on the utmost personal level. It is not the business of a priest what sins I have commited. It is between me and God.

Please answer a question:
If God specifically breathed on a select group of people and gave them the authority to forgive and retain sins, why would you deny this authority? Wouldn’t Jesus want you to use the means He specifically set up?

This always boggles my mind.

 

[w_stewart]

Where does the Bible say that “the church” is speaking of the priest alone?

Jesus gave that specific instruction (John 20:23) to the apostles who happened to be priests.

 

[Frinjaaa]

Then why forgive 70 x 7 times?

If people have the priests to forgive them… what do we matter? How are we significant to the process of forgiveness at all?

If you are going to tell me that we have to forgive ALSO or that priests are the God’s side of forgiveness, then you are telling me that I do not have direct access to communication with God and that is disheartening and goes against what the Bible says about our ‘personal’ relationship with God.

 

[w_stewart]

Then why forgive 70 x 7 times?

If people have the priests to forgive them… what do we matter? How are we significant to the process of forgiveness at all?

Read post # 16.

If you are going to tell me that we have to forgive ALSO or that priests are the God’s side of forgiveness, then you are telling me that I do not have direct access to communication with God and that is disheartening and goes against what the Bible says about our ‘personal’ relationship with God.

Jesus said to his apostles:

Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.

Isn’t this clear enough?

 

[ShemariahBeans]

Don’t wanna hijack this thread, but help me out. Haven’t been to confession is a very, very long time. Will I get hundreds of prayers to recite as punishment?

:clapping: It’s not “punishment”, it’s a penance lovingly assigned.

For myself, I spend more time preparing before than doing penance after.

It’s not that I have only committed venial sins, so I don’t see a direct connection between the severity and the penance. There’s times when, if it was up to me, I would be very severe. It’s sometimes more difficult to accept the forgiveness than it is to give it.

We bring our bag of sins to the blessed sacrament, in prayer and thanksgiving. Problem is, when I leave the confessional, my human inclination is to want to make things right myself.

Worthy is the Lamb! When I stood condemned, He took my place.

In humble awe and adoration!

 

[NotWorthy]

Then why forgive 70 x 7 times?

If people have the priests to forgive them… what do we matter? How are we significant to the process of forgiveness at all?

If you are going to tell me that we have to forgive ALSO or that priests are the God’s side of forgiveness, then you are telling me that I do not have direct access to communication with God and that is disheartening and goes against what the Bible says about our ‘personal’ relationship with God.

Frinjaa, welcome to Forgiveness 101:
The 70 x 7 times forgiveness is for our own salvation.
Jesus teaches that you MUST FORGIVE your brothers if you wish to be forgiven. You see, forgiving your brothers restores your relationship with Christ. It’s not about them, it’s about you. Just because you forgive someone doesn’t mean God has forgiven them. That is a totally different issue.

The Forgiveness taught in John 20, is an authoritative forgiveness. When the priest forgives someone, God, in turn, forgives them, and their sins are washed away. If the priest does not forgive someone, God in turn, does not forgive them.

 

[KingAlfred]

:clapping: It’s not “punishment”, it’s a penance lovingly assigned.

For myself, I spend more time preparing before than doing penance after.

It’s not that I have only committed venial sins, so I don’t see a direct connection between the severity and the penance. There’s times when, if it was up to me, I would be very severe. It’s sometimes more difficult to accept the forgiveness than it is to give it.

We bring our bag of sins to the blessed sacrament, in prayer and thanksgiving. Problem is, when I leave the confessional, my human inclination is to want to make things right myself.

Worthy is the Lamb! When I stood condemned, He took my place.

In humble awe and adoration!

But how much penance do you think I’ll have to do? It’s been a long, long time. My pride has kept me from confession. I can’t take it any longer. I must go.

 

[KingAlfred]

Unlikely. When I was coming into the Church and making my life Confession (39 years, give or take) I was asked to pray one Our Father, and to read Luke chapter 15 in the Bible.

(My second Confession just a few days later got me a penance that took me five days to complete, however. So, the length of time between Confessions isn’t really the determining factor, I don’t think.)

I just got back from Confession, actually, and it’s actually true - it feels like my soul has just had a really good shower and scrub.

I need plenty of soap, and possibly a metal-thistled scrub-brush. There might be some bleeding.

 

[jmcrae]

Then why forgive 70 x 7 times?

We forgive the wrongs that have been done to us, personally.

The priest stands in for us, when the person who needs forgiveness from us, can’t find us to ask our forgiveness personally.

He also stands in for God (who is also offended by the sins that were committed against us) to give the person the Absolution from God, as Jesus gave him the power to do this when he was ordained to the priesthood.

This authority to forgive sins in God’s name was transmitted from the Apostles upon whom Jesus breathed, by means of the laying on of hands from the Bishop during the Ordination ceremony. This laying on of hands has been going on from generation to generation in an unbroken sequence in the Catholic Church ever since the time of the Apostles.

If you are going to tell me that we have to forgive ALSO or that priests are the God’s side of forgiveness, then you are telling me that I do not have direct access to communication with God and that is disheartening and goes against what the Bible says about our ‘personal’ relationship with God.

The Bible does not say anything about people having a “personal relationship” with God, who are not also connected to the Church - it is through the Church and by means of the Sacraments that we enter into a relationship with God, which then becomes “personal” when we pray with the Church, and participate with our whole mind and heart in the activities of the Church.