Question about Confirmation

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I have a question about confirmation, as a non-Catholic.

I have just read about confirmation on the NewAdvent site but I am a bit confused. If Confirmation results in the Holy Spirit coming in or upon a person, then what is it that Catholics believe happens at the time of their conversion & baptism?

Does the person receive the Holy Spirit at conversion? If not, then how is it that they are “saved”? So, for example, Catholics baptize infants but if the Holy Spirit is not given, then how is it a guarantee that the child will go to heaven if they die before the age of reason?

Please forgive me if I have confused terminology or anything. I come from a purely Protestant background and am kindof learning about Catholic beliefs.

Thanks.
 
I have just read about confirmation on the NewAdvent site but I am a bit confused. If Confirmation results in the Holy Spirit coming in or upon a person, then what is it that Catholics believe happens at the time of their conversion & baptism?
You receive the Holy Spirit at baptism. You receive additional gifts of the holy spirit at confirmation. Confirmation completes baptism.

I suggest you read the catechism sections on baptism and confirmation.
 
Baptism and Confirmation are closely linked, and they are both important Sacraments. The both leave indelible marks on the soul. In Baptism, all of our sins are forgiven. That is any sin or wrongdoing we ourselves have committed throughout our lives, as well as what is called original sin.
An infant will not have committed any personal sins, as they do not have a developed sense of reason of right and wrong. However, baptism is given to infants to allow them to be freed from original sin.
Baptism therefore marks as a Christian, one of Christ’s followers. It is a dedication. A choice to live for God. It is a source of grace, as are all 7 sacraments. We are made anew in Christ.

The Catechism says: “through the Holy Spirit, Baptism is a bath that purifies, justifies, and sanctifies.Hence Baptism is a bath of water in which the “imperishable seed” of the Word of God produces its life-giving effect”
and later explains the roles of baptism and confirmation thusly, ‘Christian initiation is accomplished by three sacraments together: Baptism which is the beginning of new life; Confirmation which is its strengthening; and the Eucharist which nourishes the disciple with Christ’s Body and Blood for his transformation in Christ.’

Confirmation flows from baptism. It deepens the graces received in Baptism. It gives us the gifts of the Holy Spirit - unwrapping the gifts received in Baptism. In the bible, we hear,
“Now when the apostles at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent to them Peter and John, who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit; for it had not yet fallen on any of them, but they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid their hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit” (Acts 8:14-17).

In effect, my understanding is that baptism sets us aside for God and prepares us to be united to him. Baptism helps us to come to know God, a knowledge blinded through the fall. It makes us ready to come to unity of God through the Sacraments, including Confirmation, or when the time comes at our death.

I don’t think I quite hit the question you asked, but perhaps this rambling might allow something to click (perhaps the Holy Spirit will be given to illuminate).
 
I have a question about confirmation, as a non-Catholic.

I have just read about confirmation on the NewAdvent site but I am a bit confused. If Confirmation results in the Holy Spirit coming in or upon a person, then what is it that Catholics believe happens at the time of their conversion & baptism?

Does the person receive the Holy Spirit at conversion? If not, then how is it that they are “saved”? So, for example, Catholics baptize infants but if the Holy Spirit is not given, then how is it a guarantee that the child will go to heaven if they die before the age of reason?

Please forgive me if I have confused terminology or anything. I come from a purely Protestant background and am kindof learning about Catholic beliefs.

Thanks.
“Conversion” as a cultural norm doesn’t really mean anything in the Catholic Church. If you are baptized validly, that “counts” as, is, your conversion in itself.

Again, if we accept that baptism is the conversion, then yes, the Holy Spirit is received at conversion. Catholics do not believe in believers’ baptism. It doesn’t work that way. You have to be physically baptized with water and the right words to be baptized, and thus, to receive the Holy Spirit. So, if we say that believers’ baptism, that is, “Accepting Jesus as [my] personal Lord and Savior,” as Protestants say, is what constitutes conversion, then no, that person doesn’t receive the Holy Spirit.

The pivotal moment of conversion, so to speak, in a Catholic’s life, is his or her water baptism, whenever that happens. If you’re thinking, “Does that mean a proper Protestant baptism is valid in the Catholic Church?” then you would be right. If a Protestant is baptized in the proper manner (which they usually are) then yes, the baptism is valid in the Catholic Church. In other words, the Catholic Church views all validly baptized Protestants as, essentially, Catholics separated from the Catholic Church. Funny, isn’t it?

So it just depends on what counts as conversion. “Accepting Jesus as [my] personal Lord and Savior” doesn’t count as conversion in the Catholic Church, no. Being baptized with water and the right words is what counts as conversion on a very technical level.

When a baptized Protestant (who, as I’ve illustrated, is already technically a Catholic) wants to “convert” to Catholicism in the sense that he or she wants to be accepted fully into the institutional Church and be able to receive the other Sacraments, such as the Eucharist, etc., then Confirmation is what counts as that person’s “conversion,” even though technically they’re already “converted” by having been baptized. Everyone receives a mark from the Holy Spirit from baptism, but infinite graces from the Holy Spirit are received at Confirmation. Being baptized is just the bare minimum, as it were. Confirmation is kind of like an extension of that, a fullness of what you receive at baptism. The reason that Confirmation counts as the “conversion” on a cultural level to Catholicism is because for a baptized Protestant to be confirmed, he or she must receive instruction about the Church and the Church’s beliefs and teachings; that is what counts as the “conversion” if by conversion we mean becoming part of the institutional Church. The sacrament of Confirmation seals that teaching and learning process. To convert to any religion, one has to be taught about it. It’s the same for Catholicism. To be Catholic, you have to be baptized; that’s the basic necessity. But the reason we call baptized Protestants Protestants, even thought technically they are Catholic, is because they haven’t received instruction in the Church’s teachings. When they express an interest to do so, the thing that marks the end of that is their Confirmation, which also so happens to be a Sacrament which confers infinite graces from the Holy Spirit. Note that this is a very basic explanation, but it gets the main gist of it across. This is all very confusing because we have conversion on two levels: one one level, conversion is merely a superficial formality, and on another level, conversion is receiving a Christian baptism.

Infants who die after being baptized go to heaven because they are under the age of reason. The Church teaches that seven years of age is the age at which humans understand right from wrong, and thus is the age at which they are able to be held responsible for the wrong things they do. It is the age at which they first become able to commit sin. If an infant dies after being baptized, it is impossible for him or her to go to hell, because to go to hell, one has to be in mortal sin. The infant’s baptism wiped away his or her Original Sin, and since children cannot commit sin of their own until they turn seven years old, the infant is free of sin, and everyone free of mortal sin goes to heaven.
 
The process in most Christian Churches is similar to that used in Baptist Churches - just the signs are different. For those born and brought up within the Church, there is a two part process whereby the child is named and claimed for God shortly after birth and becomes a full member of the Church later when he or she is able to make an informed choice. For adults converted to the Church, the two parts of the rite are combined into one.

The Baptist Church has infant dedication and adult baptism. The rest of Christendom, including the Catholic, Anglican, Orthodox and Armenian Communions, have infant baptism and adult confirmation. What we each believe happens at these rites of passage is broadly similar.

Adults who were not previously baptised are received into the Church in a ceremony that includes baptism (water) and confirmation (anointing), usually at the Easter Vigil service. This is a highly moving ceremony which you are most welcome to attend.
 
The process in most Christian Churches is similar to that used in Baptist Churches - just the signs are different. For those born and brought up within the Church, there is a two part process whereby the child is named and claimed for God shortly after birth and becomes a full member of the Church later when he or she is able to make an informed choice.
One is a full member by virtue of baptism. Confirmation is something done TO us, not BY us, even though it is usually done once we have reached the age of reason. It completes our baptism but is not us making a choice to be members of the Church.
 
One is a full member by virtue of baptism. Confirmation is something done TO us, not BY us, even though it is usually done once we have reached the age of reason. It completes our baptism but is not us making a choice to be members of the Church.
True, but confirmation is the de facto way of converting a baptized Protestant, even though he or she is technically already Catholic.
 
One is a full member by virtue of baptism. Confirmation is something done TO us, not BY us, even though it is usually done once we have reached the age of reason. It completes our baptism but is not us making a choice to be members of the Church.
However, on a personal level, the Cathecism states:
1309 Preparation for Confirmation should aim at leading the Christian toward a more intimate union with Christ and a more lively familiarity with the Holy Spirit - his actions, his gifts, and his biddings - in order to be more capable of assuming the apostolic responsibilities of Christian life.
To this end catechesis for Confirmation should strive to awaken a sense of belonging to the Church of Jesus Christ, the universal Church as well as the parish community. The latter bears special responsibility for the preparation of confirmands.127
1310 To receive Confirmation one must be in a state of grace. One should receive the sacrament of Penance in order to be cleansed for the gift of the Holy Spirit. More intense prayer should prepare one to receive the strength and graces of the Holy Spirit with docility and readiness to act.128
 
Confirmation is our personal participation in Pentacost.

Before Pentacost, the disciples locked themselves in the upper room out of fear. Consider that the 72 sent out by Christ to teach and heal were amazed at their ability to do so.

After Pentacost however, the disciples spoke out boldly, without fear but with confidence , noy even being afraid of death.

By baptism we are grafted to the vine. Through Confirmation we are given strength and confidence to boldly proclaim God like Stephen and Peter in the book of Acts.

-Tim-
 
The process in most Christian Churches is similar to that used in Baptist Churches - just the signs are different. For those born and brought up within the Church, there is a two part process whereby the child is named and claimed for God shortly after birth and becomes a full member of the Church later when he or she is able to make an informed choice.
This is not correct.

It is the *Bishop *who does the confirming, not the one being confirmed. It is the *Baptism *that is being confirmed, not some sort of “informed choice” the confirmandii is making.

Catholics are *obligated *to receive the sacrament of confirmation at the time appointed by the Bishop (Canon 890). It is not optional and it is certainly not some kind of “choice” to be Catholic. One is Catholic by virtue of one’s baptism.

It is a strengthening of the gifts of the Holy Spirit received at baptism.
 
True, but confirmation is the de facto way of converting a baptized Protestant, even though he or she is technically already Catholic.
No, the point of conversion for Protestants is the Profession of Faith. Confirmation and First Communion come after that because they are catechized adults past the age of Confirmation/First Communion determined by the bishop of that diocese.
 
No, the point of conversion for Protestants is the Profession of Faith. Confirmation and First Communion come after that because they are catechized adults past the age of Confirmation/First Communion determined by the bishop of that diocese.
I never did this. I swear, I never did this. :confused:
 
I never did this. I swear, I never did this. :confused:
It is generally at the same Mass as Confirmation. There are a couple of forms, but in my parish, they just had us all come up, asked if we “believed all that the Catholic Church teaches and proclaims to be true?” Than the priest welcomes you into the Church. Nothing bit, but it should happen. 🤷
 
I never did this. I swear, I never did this. :confused:
It may have been in question/answer form. It is in the Rite but there are several choices.

The Profession of Faith brings one into full communion with the Catholic Church. One may or may not be confirmed immediately following.
 
It may have been in question/answer form. It is in the Rite but there are several choices.
All I did was get baptized and then I was confirmed. 🤷 I suppose that counts anyways.
 
All I did was get baptized and then I was confirmed. 🤷 I suppose that counts anyways.
The Profession of Faith is for those already baptized outside the Catholic Church. It is not part of the Rites for Catechumens because they are making their baptismal promises through the Creed (again usually in question/answer format).
 
Everyone,

Thanks for all of the replies. I think I am starting to get it.

I guess what was confusing is that on the NewAdvent site (BTW, is that a good site to reference for Catholic beliefs?) it stated that Confirmation involves asking for the Holy Spirit to come down upon and indwell a previously baptized person.

So then I started to wonder if Catholic believe that the Holy Spirit is NOT in people who have only been baptized but not confirmed? Or… is the Holy Spirit indeed in baptized people but then the H.S. does something different at confirmation?

I am leaning towards the latter.

Oh, so here’s another question: Can a Christian have the GIFTS of the Spirit without having gone through confirmation? Or does Confirmation bestow the gifts?
 
Everyone,

Thanks for all of the replies. I think I am starting to get it.

I guess what was confusing is that on the NewAdvent site (BTW, is that a good site to reference for Catholic beliefs?) it stated that Confirmation involves asking for the Holy Spirit to come down upon and indwell a previously baptized person.

So then I started to wonder if Catholic believe that the Holy Spirit is NOT in people who have only been baptized but not confirmed? Or… is the Holy Spirit indeed in baptized people but then the H.S. does something different at confirmation?

I am leaning towards the latter.

Oh, so here’s another question: Can a Christian have the GIFTS of the Spirit without having gone through confirmation? Or does Confirmation bestow the gifts?
I will just tell you my experience as a baptized Catholic as a baby…and later on spending time (20 years) in various Protestant churches. I came back and really thought I would be confirmed just to “check” it off…but confirmation is so much more as I found out. The Holy Spirit does something different at confirmation.
 
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