Question about confirmation?

[ALLFORHIM]

Hi all,

My friend’s twins are being confirmed this school year and I am a little confused. I asked them what confirmation meant and they said"We get to decide if we want to go to church anymore". I said"Really, thats it". They said yes.
I said to them that I thought it was about accepting Jesus Christ as your Savior and committing yourself to Christ.
They looked at me and laughed and said"No we dont learn that":bigyikes:
So I ask you guys what exactly are you suppose to learn about confirmation?

Thanks
ALLFORHIM

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Sadly, your friend’s twins are completely wrong. Could be poor catechesis, but could equally be that they are learning the truth but simply don’t want to hear it. I really couldn’t say for sure without knowing their parish, their catechists, their parents, their materials, their friends, and themselves. . .IOW, everybody is different and takes something ‘different’ from a subject, just as every teacher of a subject is different and puts something different into a subject.

I suggest that you check out the Catechism of the Catholic Church to see what confirmation is REALLY all about. Here’s a link.

vatican.va/archive/catechism/p2s2c1a2.htm

Right from the Vatican. You will notice I’m sure that there is absolutely nothing on “we will decide whether we want to go to church or not.”

God bless. I’ll keep those twins in my prayers, that they somehow will accept the Holy Spirit and His teachings.

 

[BeeSweet]

Confirmation is the third of the Sacraments of Initiation, where we receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. This is where we confirm our faith as Catholics, on more of an adult level. They’re probably being facetious with you. I liken the Catholic Confirmation to the Protestant Believer’s Baptism, or to the Jewish Bat Mitzvah and Bar Mitzvah.

 

[prv]

Hi all,

My friend’s twins are being confirmed this school year and I am a little confused. I asked them what confirmation meant and they said"We get to decide if we want to go to church anymore". I said"Really, thats it". They said yes.
I said to them that I thought it was about accepting Jesus Christ as your Savior and committing yourself to Christ.
They looked at me and laughed and said"No we dont learn that":bigyikes:
So I ask you guys what exactly are you suppose to learn about confirmation?

Thanks
ALLFORHIM

It is necessary to remember that Confirmation exists as a Sacrament that strengthens us and which gives or strengthens the seven gifts of the Holy Spirit. This occurs whether or not candidates know anything at all about it. On this point it differs from some Protestant ceremonies of confirmation, which simply acknowledges that a person knows the articles of Christian doctrine.

Code of Canon Law for the Latin Church

Can. 879 The sacrament of confirmation confers a character. By it the baptized continue their path of Christian initiation. They are enriched with the gift of the Holy Spirit, and are more closely linked to the Church. They are made strong and more firmly obliged by word and deed to witness to Christ and to spread and defend the faith.

Can. 889 ß1 Every baptized person who is not confirmed, and only such a person, is capable of receiving confirmation.

ß2 Apart from the danger of death, to receive confirmation lawfully a person who has the use of reason must be suitably instructed, properly disposed and able to renew the baptismal promises.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Hi all,

My friend’s twins are being confirmed this school year and I am a little confused. I asked them what confirmation meant and they said"We get to decide if we want to go to church anymore". I said"Really, thats it". They said yes.
I said to them that I thought it was about accepting Jesus Christ as your Savior and committing yourself to Christ.
They looked at me and laughed and said"No we dont learn that":bigyikes:
So I ask you guys what exactly are you suppose to learn about confirmation?

Thanks
ALLFORHIM

Both of these ideas are off. Confirmation is not about accepting Christ as in the Eastern Churches infants are confirmed.

See what prv said and read about Confirmation in the Catechism.

 

[Pug]

I asked them what confirmation meant and they said"We get to decide if we want to go to church anymore"

I wonder if they were trying to communicate that they needed to be willing, and that someone had asked them to be sure that they in fact wanted to receive the sacrament or not. At that age (Latin rite), their consent is needed.

The Holy Spirit strengthens the person in confirmation, leading to being more mature in the faith, and they are called even more strongly to spread the faith and witness to others.

To be clear, the Holy Spirit is received at baptism. This is not the first encounter with the Holy Spirit for the child.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Hi all,

My friend’s twins are being confirmed this school year and I am a little confused. I asked them what confirmation meant and they said"We get to decide if we want to go to church anymore". I said"Really, thats it". They said yes.
I said to them that I thought it was about accepting Jesus Christ as your Savior and committing yourself to Christ.
They looked at me and laughed and said"No we dont learn that":bigyikes:
So I ask you guys what exactly are you suppose to learn about confirmation?

Thanks
ALLFORHIM

Confirmation preparation should prepare a young person to live out their Baptismal grace and promises in a world that is set against Christ. If there is ANY question in their minds as to the necessity of attending church, Worshiping God on the Lord’s day. Then they are clearly not ready to receive the Sacrament of Confirmation.

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

Fisheaster.com has the best page on Confirmation I’ve seen yet. fisheaters.com/confirmation.html

Contrary to bad catechesis and this “rite of passage” thing, Confirmation is the seal on Baptism through the imposition of the Holy Spirit, bringing to fore the Seven Gifts of the Holy Spirit. It is the BISHOP who is confirming the Baptism of the confirmand; not the confirmand confirming his or her choice of faith to the bishop. Babies are routinely confirmed in the Eastern Rite, and in some places the Latin Rite. Seven year olds are confirmed. Ten year olds are confirmed. Twelve year olds are confirmed. You’re telling me each of those has to choose to be confirmed, and it’s not the parents in most cases? Wrong, sorry. It might be treated that way, but that’s not what Confirmation is.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Fisheaster.com has the best page on Confirmation I’ve seen yet. fisheaters.com/confirmation.html

Contrary to bad catechesis and this “rite of passage” thing, Confirmation is the seal on Baptism through the imposition of the Holy Spirit, bringing to fore the Seven Gifts of the Holy Spirit. It is the BISHOP who is confirming the Baptism of the confirmand; not the confirmand confirming his or her choice of faith to the bishop. Babies are routinely confirmed in the Eastern Rite, and in some places the Latin Rite. Seven year olds are confirmed. Ten year olds are confirmed. Twelve year olds are confirmed. You’re telling me each of those has to choose to be confirmed, and it’s not the parents in most cases? Wrong, sorry. It might be treated that way, but that’s not what Confirmation is.

Hi,

First of all thank you to all who answered me. To the above–I assure it is the parents of 13-14 year olds as well. Most kids this age could care less. It is sad but true.

I have another question if you will. Does the church teach that if the child goes through the confirmation, but does not truly believe or care about what they are doing, they still receive the Holy Spirit in them. What if they are just going through the motions to get it over with?

 

[MonicaC]

Hi,

First of all thank you to all who answered me. To the above–I assure it is the parents of 13-14 year olds as well. Most kids this age could care less. It is sad but true.

I have another question if you will. Does the church teach that if the child goes through the confirmation, but does not truly believe or care about what they are doing, they still receive the Holy Spirit in them. What if they are just going through the motions to get it over with?

In the Fargo diocess children are confirmed at the age of 9 or third grade. I as a catechest believe that children are quit ready for this wonderful sacrament at this age. My class really surprised me with their enthusiasum(sp?). They have received their sacrament and now it is up to them as it is up to all humans to continue to accept the guidence of the Holy Spirit. I pray for them every day.

God Bless,

Monica

 

[jmcrae]

I have another question if you will. Does the church teach that if the child goes through the confirmation, but does not truly believe or care about what they are doing, they still receive the Holy Spirit in them.

They will still receive the Holy Spirit, but the effect might not be felt until years later.

What if they are just going through the motions to get it over with?

If I were responsible for a child in that situation, I would have him wait until he’s ready for the Sacrament. This could mean extra Catechism classes and extra studying at home. I’d also want to look at the example that I’m setting for the child, and maybe pray more frequently and more openly, not to “show off,” but so that the child can have an opportunity to join in and share my faith with me.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

They will still receive the Holy Spirit, but the effect might not be felt until years later.

If I were responsible for a child in that situation, I would have him wait until he’s ready for the Sacrament. This could mean extra Catechism classes and extra studying at home. I’d also want to look at the example that I’m setting for the child, and maybe pray more frequently and more openly, not to “show off,” but so that the child can have an opportunity to join in and share my faith with me.

Thank you for the info.

 

[Pug]

You’re telling me each of those has to choose to be confirmed, and it’s not the parents in most cases? Wrong, sorry. It might be treated that way, but that’s not what Confirmation is.

No, I did not mean to imply that in the Eastern half that the infant chooses. Or any of the times that the child is very young.

In many places the child is in eighth grade, and at that age there is often someone who is supposed to determine if they are prepared and ready. If you ask that someone, they will claim that the child must be nominally willing or they won’t do it. Screaming refusal or denial of God is not it. I perfectly agree with you that anyone casually asking a child “do you want to be confirmed” has little chance of actually arriving at the child’s opinion of the matter. Kids most likely do what their parents tell them to do, willy nilly. I know many folks confirmed this way. However, someone might arrive at the truth and probably should not support their confirmation at that time. I’m not a DRE or anything, though.

When an older child has not been previously baptized, they aren’t forced to either. (same parental and social issue there as well).

Here is what an older child to be baptized likely hears, “Dear Friends, N and N, with approval of their parents, have asked to be baptized…” Sounds like choice to me.

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

I have another question if you will. Does the church teach that if the child goes through the confirmation, but does not truly believe or care about what they are doing, they still receive the Holy Spirit in them. What if they are just going through the motions to get it over with?

If they are in a state of grace, it’s immediate. If they have a mortal sin, as soon as they confess the mortal sin- goes for anybody.

Now, if they ignore it, or choose to act ignorant- well, the Holy Spirit can only do so much with a person’s free will.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Hi,

First of all thank you to all who answered me. To the above–I assure it is the parents of 13-14 year olds as well. Most kids this age could care less. It is sad but true.

I have another question if you will. Does the church teach that if the child goes through the confirmation, but does not truly believe or care about what they are doing, they still receive the Holy Spirit in them. What if they are just going through the motions to get it over with?

The Sacrament of Confirmation if administered validly is always valid. The Sacramental Grace may be hindered or blocked by the dispotion of the person receiving the Sacrament. It is very important that each person go to Comfession just before receiving Confirmation.

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

Here is what an older child to be baptized likely hears, “Dear Friends, N and N, with approval of their parents, have asked to be baptized…” Sounds like choice to me.

Thing is, that is not a part of the Rite of Confirmation. It’s part of Baptism.

This is what is said at Confirmation:

Prior to the actual sacrament, the official Rite mentions nothing about parental approval, or kids making a choice. The bishop first prays that the Holy Spirit comes down upon the confirmands, and then there’s a set of verses, almost a short litany. Then the bishop says, “Almighty, everlasting God, You have been pleased to regenerate these Your servants by water and the Holy Spirit, and have given them remission of all their sins; send forth upon them from Heaven Your sevenfold Holy Spirit, the Paraclete.” And then there’s verses, to which everybody answers “Amen.” The bishop might asks the confirmands questions, and they might renew their baptismal vows, and the bishop might give a short homily; but pretty much this deals with the Holy Spirit, and the bishop doing the confirming, not choices for kids.

Then the bishop says, “N., I sign you with the sign of the Cross, and I confirm you with the chrism of salvation; in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.”

And after everybody is confirmed, the bishop says, “Confirm O Lord, what you have wrought in us, from your holy temple in Jerusalem.”

That’s why I find it irksome that there is this mentality of “kid getting to make a choice”. If his parents and the DRE let him or her, then yes, there will be a choice of whether or not to be confirmed. But it really has nothing to do with the kid confirming his or her baptism, and everything to do with the bishop confirming the kid’s baptism. It’s my reasoning behind Latin bishops stopping this nonsense of making Confirmation a Catholic bar or bat mitzvah, and why I applaud those diocese where at least small children are confirmed. I would applaud even louder if the Roman Church would start the world-wide confirmation of babies, such as the Eastern Rite does.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Thing is, that is not a part of the Rite of Confirmation. It’s part of Baptism.

This is what is said at Confirmation:

Prior to the actual sacrament, the official Rite mentions nothing about parental approval, or kids making a choice. The bishop first prays that the Holy Spirit comes down upon the confirmands, and then there’s a set of verses, almost a short litany. Then the bishop says, “Almighty, everlasting God, You have been pleased to regenerate these Your servants by water and the Holy Spirit, and have given them remission of all their sins; send forth upon them from Heaven Your sevenfold Holy Spirit, the Paraclete.” And then there’s verses, to which everybody answers “Amen.” The bishop might asks the confirmands questions, and they might renew their baptismal vows, and the bishop might give a short homily; but pretty much this deals with the Holy Spirit, and the bishop doing the confirming, not choices for kids.

Then the bishop says, “N., I sign you with the sign of the Cross, and I confirm you with the chrism of salvation; in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.”

And after everybody is confirmed, the bishop says, “Confirm O Lord, what you have wrought in us, from your holy temple in Jerusalem.”

That’s why I find it irksome that there is this mentality of “kid getting to make a choice”. If his parents and the DRE let him or her, then yes, there will be a choice of whether or not to be confirmed. But it really has nothing to do with the kid confirming his or her baptism, and everything to do with the bishop confirming the kid’s baptism. It’s my reasoning behind Latin bishops stopping this nonsense of making Confirmation a Catholic bar or bat mitzvah, and why I applaud those diocese where at least small children are confirmed. I would applaud even louder if the Roman Church would start the world-wide confirmation of babies, such as the Eastern Rite does.

Hi,
Im sorry im being a little dense. Im somewhat confused So then confirmation has nothing to do with salvation? Because salvation is a choice–we either accept it or we dont. It is not the same thing? It is just when you talk about the Holy Spirit coming into the child(and them not making the choice) it confuses me because in Scripture it says to confess with your mouth and believe in your heart Jesus is Lord(Im obviously paraphrasing)I would think that is a choice.
I look forward to your answer.

 

[jmcrae]

Hi,
Im sorry im being a little dense. Im somewhat confused So then confirmation has nothing to do with salvation? Because salvation is a choice–we either accept it or we dont. It is not the same thing? It is just when you talk about the Holy Spirit coming into the child(and them not making the choice) it confuses me because in Scripture it says to confess with your mouth and believe in your heart Jesus is Lord(Im obviously paraphrasing)I would think that is a choice.
I look forward to your answer.

I think the person you’re responding to is not a Catholic.

In any case, Confirmation is just one of three Sacraments of Initiation - the other two are Baptism (which comes before Confirmation; Baptism washes away sins) and Holy Communion (which in modern times in the case of children, can be received even before Confirmation; in the early Church and even up to relatively recently, First Holy Communion came after Confirmation - for adults, it still does).

Holy Communion is where we “accept” Jesus personally. In Confirmation, the child is receiving the graces that will make him able to fully receive Jesus in Holy Communion.

In Catholic thinking, salvation isn’t a one-time gift - it’s an ongoing process. This is reflected in the fact that the Initiation Sacraments are often years apart from each other. It’s also why the final Sacrament of Initiation, Holy Communion, can be repeated literally hundreds of times throughout a person’s lifetime.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Confirmation is NOT equivalent to some Protestant practices of the Sinners Prayer. It is NOT ‘confessing the Lord with your mouth and believing in your heart’ with the thought that doing so will assure one’s salvation. I know, AllforHim, that you have read quite a lot on these forums about salvation and the Catholic stand on salvation, justification, etc. Again, I recommend the Catechism. From the link I gave you, you should be able to access not just the section on confirmation but the WHOLE thing. Use the search function and check ‘salvation’, ‘justification’, etc. if you are still not sure.

If you read the link I provided you to the Catechism of the Catholic Church that should be quite helpful in explaining to you exactly what confirmation is.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

I think the person you’re responding to is not a Catholic.

In any case, Confirmation is just one of three Sacraments of Initiation - the other two are Baptism (which comes before Confirmation; Baptism washes away sins) and Holy Communion (which in modern times in the case of children, can be received even before Confirmation; in the early Church and even up to relatively recently, First Holy Communion came after Confirmation - for adults, it still does).

Holy Communion is where we “accept” Jesus personally. In Confirmation, the child is receiving the graces that will make him able to fully receive Jesus in Holy Communion.

In Catholic thinking, salvation isn’t a one-time gift - it’s an ongoing process. This is reflected in the fact that the Initiation Sacraments are often years apart from each other. It’s also why the final Sacrament of Initiation, Holy Communion, can be repeated literally hundreds of times throughout a person’s lifetime.

Hi,
Thank you for the clarity. That makes more sense to keeping the CC way of following salvation.

Of course you know I dont agree But you did make it easier for me to understand.