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OutinChgoburbs
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Nope, it isn’t. I didn’t realize you weren’t Catholic, so sorry for that.Hi,
Im sorry im being a little dense. Im somewhat confusedSo then confirmation has nothing to do with salvation? Because salvation is a choice–we either accept it or we dont. It is not the same thing? It is just when you talk about the Holy Spirit coming into the child(and them not making the choice) it confuses me because in Scripture it says to confess with your mouth and believe in your heart Jesus is Lord(Im obviously paraphrasing)I would think that is a choice.
I look forward to your answer.
Catholics (hopefully) baptize their infants and raise them in the household of Faith, just as the folks in Acts were baptized in whole households by the apostles. The babies were then confirmed and received the sealing and gifts of the Holy Spirit, just like the big people. Then everybody received the Eucharist, which I think you know is the Body and Blood of Jesus.
When things got to be too big for the apostles, the first bishops, to handle, they met and decided the priests and deacons could baptize (really, anybody, even a non-Catholic, in an emergency). In the eastern part of the Church, bishops also gave priests permission on their behalf (faculties) to confirm, or chrismate (chrism is the oil used in Confirmation). In the western part of the Church, bishops reserved that sacarment to themselves, and therefore the people in question had to wiat for the bishop to confirm.
Catholics don’t take one verse out of context and expect it to take on meaning by itself. You need to take a good look at ALL of Romans 10 to see what Paul discusses.
usccb.org/nab/bible/romans/romans10.htm
Surely, a person who cannot receive baptism (esp. those who are martyred) but believes in the truths of the Church will find his or her way to Heaven through God’s mercy and providence. But baptism is the usual road for salvation. Confirmation “finishes” baptism. As for it being a choice made a child or young person for Jesus in the Protestant “altar call” or baptist-baptism sense, no.
http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt2sect2.htm#chpt1
http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt2sect2chpt1art2.htm
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ALLFORHIM
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richard1
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Expecting that this page might help to guide formation to confirmation.
May I Introduce you to the Third beatitude of Matthew: “Happy the gentle for he will possess the earth?
I really think that it refers to: “Your will be done, Father.” In the Our Father prayer and that chapter 10 in Matthew’s gospel explains it. The Spirit, In the third letter to the churches in the Revelation Book says: “I will give the hidden manna, and a white stone, and on the white stone is written a new name that no one knows except the one who receives it.”
Discover with me the sacraments related to the
HOLY SPIRIT: Confirmation and Order
Let us think of the Bishop ordaining new priests or confirming Christians in their status while reading what follows:
1.Mat 10:1-4 Here you are, my disciples, the deacons or candidate to confirmation
2.Mat 10:5-15 Here is your mission…
3.Mat 10:16-25 Here is what you could expect…
4.Mat 10:26-31 Here is the discipline you should give to yourself…
5.Mat 10:32-33 Here is the foundation of your faith…
6.Mat 10:34-39 Here is your test of fidelity…
7.Mat 10:40-42 Here is your REWARD
Happy the gentle, the one who obeys to the Holy Spirit, the one who practices the formation of chapter 10 for he will possess the earth; he will feel that the authority he received from God his Father through baptism gave the strength to make him free. Strong to go even to martyrdom whenever it is needed. Strong enough to proclaim what is good and condemn what is bad. When he speaks the entire world is his people because it is the people of his Father.
What about this new name spoken about in Revelation, a name that no one else knows except the one who welcomes it and secures it in his heart? It means for me that each one has to take at heart his new deep-secret covenant with the Lord and to measure the limits of his engagement to Him and to His people.
May I Introduce you to the Third beatitude of Matthew: “Happy the gentle for he will possess the earth?
I really think that it refers to: “Your will be done, Father.” In the Our Father prayer and that chapter 10 in Matthew’s gospel explains it. The Spirit, In the third letter to the churches in the Revelation Book says: “I will give the hidden manna, and a white stone, and on the white stone is written a new name that no one knows except the one who receives it.”
Discover with me the sacraments related to the
HOLY SPIRIT: Confirmation and Order
Let us think of the Bishop ordaining new priests or confirming Christians in their status while reading what follows:
1.Mat 10:1-4 Here you are, my disciples, the deacons or candidate to confirmation
2.Mat 10:5-15 Here is your mission…
3.Mat 10:16-25 Here is what you could expect…
4.Mat 10:26-31 Here is the discipline you should give to yourself…
5.Mat 10:32-33 Here is the foundation of your faith…
6.Mat 10:34-39 Here is your test of fidelity…
7.Mat 10:40-42 Here is your REWARD
Code:
I find in this chapter what I heard coming from bishops’ mouth during their homely on the ordination day. I also think that this chapter could be strongly exploited by ministers or teachers preparing seminarians to their future involvement as priests. It could be used to prepare Christians for CONFIRMATION because being confirmed or elected as a follower of Jesus requires all these elements and the bishop is the ordinary minister of this sacrament of confirmation or election.
At large religious congregations could use this chapter to form their candidates and to make annual retreats.What about this new name spoken about in Revelation, a name that no one else knows except the one who welcomes it and secures it in his heart? It means for me that each one has to take at heart his new deep-secret covenant with the Lord and to measure the limits of his engagement to Him and to His people.
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Pug
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I am confused as to why we seemed to be clashing here. I completely agree that it is not about the child making or confirming their baptism as real or something. I never said otherwise. Confirmation is logically related to baptism, though, we both agree on that. I was trying to supply a reason why the kids might have said what they did. Practice is what it is. Those actual children may well have had a reason for what they said, and not been teasing.
Is the issue that you believe an older child who voices their refusal to be confirmed ought to be confirmed against their will, but there ought not be forcible baptism? Are you trying to say that since they have already been baptized, and since confirmation is related to baptism, that consent is no longer relevant? It is true that they are not asked for consent in the confirmation ritual itself (that I recall). But I think that the Church does understand that they are old enough to ask for sacraments, and really have some level of will in the situation. I also think the Church desires it to be ascertained that they are suitably “disposed”, unless dying or something. cf cic 889 Is someone who adamantly refuses “disposed”?
If you are just trying to say that baptism and confirmation ought to be delivered in tandem, then so you know, I DO see the value in that. I don’t have some concept that confirmation has to be delayed until the child can think for themselves so as to get a chance to reject or accept the previous baptism. I like them in tandem.
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OutinChgoburbs
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1.) It wasn’t you who was being irksome. I apologize if you thought that. I just cover this at least once a month, sometimes more. That’s what I find irksome.
2.) Yes indeed, I think the two go together. I didn’t used to think that way, and it took a lot of catechesis to get me to that point.
Having my sacramental preparation being about as old as Vatican II, I have the good old faith formation of the Baltimore Catechism, the Blue (First Communion) Catechism, and Red (Confirmation) Catechism. I also have all the stuff about Confirmation now means we get our own opportunity to make up our minds for ourselves, etc. A priest challenged me on the issue when the first dioceses went back to confirming small children and even infants 20 years ago. My first response was, “They aren’t old enough to speak for themselves at 14, how are they going to do that at 10?”
And we went from there.
On another note, if it seems I am crabby, I’m not. I just have trouble reading tiny type, so I use the bigger fonts.
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OutinChgoburbs
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You’re welcome. I hope it was helpful.Hi,
Thank you for your explanation.
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puzzleannie
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they may be pushing your buttons, or they may be enrolled in a confirmation program but not attending regularly or paying attention when they do. you might want a snappy reply like: no, it is when the bishop gets to decide if you will be allowed to go to Church any more." whatever Brother said. he is the expert.
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Pug
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Ah, I had noticed, but hadn’t really thought about why. No worries.
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