Question about contraception

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ianjmatt

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When it comes to our family I have absolutely no problem with the Church’s position on contraception - indeed I think it is incredibly healthy and life-affirming.

I just wanted to raise on issue that I came across that has given me pause for thought - a real-life situation given to me by an acquaintance doing relief work in Africa:

A young woman, recently married to a slightly older man who has contracted HIV through a prostitute. It is not possible for her to resist his demands for conjugal relations, but he has agreed to use a condom to reduce the risk of infection (he isn’t, from what I gather, a very nice person). Is her choice either sinning or getting HIV here?
 
Why would a man marry a young girl knowing he had HIV? Selfishness. The solution, of course, is to live in continence due to his disease.
 
1ke said:
Why would a man marry a young girl knowing he had HIV? Selfishness. The solution, of course, is to live in continence due to his disease.
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The OP implied that the woman might not have that option.

OP- I suggest you talk to a priest in person so that you can go into greater detail and suggest to your friend that she see if the woman needs to get out of an abusive or soon to be abusive marriage.
 
I’m not directly involved in this situation - it was one relayed to me by someone I know - hence I don’t have any direct (name removed by moderator)ut into it.

She really didn’t have a choice about marrying the person from what I understand, and doesn’t have the option of getting out of it.
 
Married couples in this cirumstance are called to permanent continence

Condoms have a 15% typical use failiure rate, 2% perfect use failiure rate

contraceptivetechnology.org/table.html

Why put a life at risk for a bit of latex that has a failiure rate?
 
It sounds to me like this scenario pretty much reduces to rape. If she has no choice as to whether or not to have relations then she is being forced to have them. If it’s rape the man and his dangerous fluids become aggressors that the woman has a right to defend herself from. Whether or not all would agree various Catholic Ethicists have allowed a woman to use the morning after pill if she was raped and if it is certain that no child has yet been conceived. I would say that in a similar way this woman has a right to protect herself from her husband.
 
ianjmatt said:
I’m not directly involved in this situation - it was one relayed to me by someone I know - hence I don’t have any direct (name removed by moderator)ut into it.

She really didn’t have a choice about marrying the person from what I understand, and doesn’t have the option of getting out of it.
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This sounds like one of those made up scenarios in an attempt to trap or paint the Church as cruel.

The moral solution is to help the woman leave an abusive situation, not arm her abuser with additional weapons against her person.
 
ianjmatt said:
I’m not directly involved in this situation - it was one relayed to me by someone I know - hence I don’t have any direct (name removed by moderator)ut into it.

She really didn’t have a choice about marrying the person from what I understand, and doesn’t have the option of getting out of it.
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There are always options for getting out of an abusive marriage. If she didn’t have a choice, then what you are dealing with is kidnapping and rape, not a true marriage. As you present it, this marriage would be annulled. The woman needs to call a crisis hotline and make plans to get out.
 
1ke said:
This sounds like one of those made up scenarios in an attempt to trap or paint the Church as cruel.

The moral solution is to help the woman leave an abusive situation, not arm her abuser with additional weapons against her person.
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That’s what I was thinking too. If this was a arranged wedding it is really strange and unlikely she was “given” to him if her family knew about the man’s HIV… and which country is it in Africa?
He wouldn’t wear a condom with a prostitute yet he would wear one with his wife? Really?
 
ianjmatt said:
When it comes to our family I have absolutely no problem with the Church’s position on contraception - indeed I think it is incredibly healthy and life-affirming.

I just wanted to raise on issue that I came across that has given me pause for thought - a real-life situation given to me by an acquaintance doing relief work in Africa:

A young woman, recently married to a slightly older man who has contracted HIV through a prostitute. It is not possible for her to resist his demands for conjugal relations, but he has agreed to use a condom to reduce the risk of infection (he isn’t, from what I gather, a very nice person). Is her choice either sinning or getting HIV here?
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Here’s what the Pope had to say on this issue:

guardian.co.uk/world/2009/mar/17/pope-africa-condoms-aids
 
ianjmatt said:
A young woman, recently married to a slightly older man who has contracted HIV through a prostitute. It is not possible for her to resist his demands for conjugal relations, but he has agreed to use a condom to reduce the risk of infection (he isn’t, from what I gather, a very nice person). Is her choice either sinning or getting HIV here?
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What choice of hers are you talking about? The man will have his way with her and she can’t stop him, as the scenario specifies. If he wears a condom, then he does, but that is his choice, not hers. She is being physically forced either way. If he is abusive or if she is a captive, she can flee if the opportunity arises.
 
Pug said:
What choice of hers are you talking about? The man will have his way with her and she can’t stop him, as the scenario specifies. If he wears a condom, then he does, but that is his choice, not hers. She is being physically forced either way. If he is abusive or if she is a captive, she can flee if the opportunity arises.
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exceptional reasoning,thanks!
 
april32010 said:
this is at best tangentially related
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After reading it a second time, your right. With the amount of information given, she could even commit murder without sinning as she would be defending her life against an assailant attempting to do her grave bodily harm. 🤷
 
This sounds like one of those made up scenarios in an attempt to trap or paint the Church as cruel.
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The moral solution is to help the woman leave an abusive situation, not arm her abuser with additional weapons against her person.
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Hang on - I’m just relaying the situation - nothing about trapping the Church :mad:

Yes - the best answer is to flee the situation - I’m not sure if that is possible in Botswana, there is little support network. In the meantime, this poor woman remains trapped in a hopeless situation and if it was me I’m not sure what I could do to give her best advice. It seems the options are - flee into poverty and ostracization, commit a sin by having sex with a condom or get HIV. Poor woman 😦
 
ianjmatt said:
I’m not directly involved in this situation - it was one relayed to me by someone I know - hence I don’t have any direct (name removed by moderator)ut into it.

She really didn’t have a choice about marrying the person from what I understand, and doesn’t have the option of getting out of it.
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Some questions:

The infection takes place, when??? before the wedding? Has he known his infection before the wedding? Has he told her before the wedding? Does she know for the infection of husband before the wedding?

The infection, after the wedding?

See a nullity of marriage? Does he respect the principle of fidelity before and after the marriage?

Is it a conjugal rape? No choice??? WHY???

NULLITY OF MARRIAGE.
 
I agree that would be the idea - my understanding is that the infection happened after the wedding, and that he is not a Catholic.
 
ianjmatt said:
I agree that would be the idea - my understanding is that the infection happened after the wedding, and that he is not a Catholic.
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She need to get the protection of the catholic church, to leave this man, to get the divorce and to try to get the declaration of nullity of marriage.

This marriage is from another past period (because in Africa). No liberty, no choice (no interior liberty, no exterior liberty), no fidelity of this man, it was probably a liar about the fidelity (no will in his heart, the day of marriage).

NULLITY, NULLITY, NULLITY. IT IS PROBABLE (almost 100%, 98% to get).
**
The rape (see with the police and the justice).**
 
R1ch4rd said:
After reading it a second time, your right. With the amount of information given, she could even commit murder without sinning as she would be defending her life against an assailant attempting to do her grave bodily harm. 🤷
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I can see what you mean, but does “murder” include defending yourself by killing? Maybe there is a more precise way to speak of this in light of what the Catechism puts before us on murder.

"There are acts which, in and of themselves, independently of circumstances and intentions, are always gravely illicit by reason of their object; such as blasphemy and perjury, murder and adultery. " (1756, bold added)
 
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