Question about defense of life

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dannyh010

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The Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches that faithful Christians have the moral right and obligation to defend life. Regarding abortion, the most recent event in the news is the trial of the man who shot and killed a Lutheran abortion doctor. The case sparked a question for me: are abortion protestors obligated to storm abortion clinics and stop the doctor from killing the child?

Take a parallel scenario. A person in a mall is threatening the life of a pregnant mother at knife-point. To my understanding, the faithful are obligated to defend life, whether that means calling the police or taking down the attacker themselves. Wouldn’t the same principle apply to abortion?

Similar to the mall incident, an unborn child in an abortion clinic is being threatened by a doctor’s scalpel. Are the protestors outside obligated to storm the clinic and stop the abortion?
 
I appreciate your question but let me ask you to consider this.

When the abortion clinics are “Stormed” and people are seriously injured or even killed in the action have you defended life or have you damaged life.
Also remember that these people are acting in accordance with their own belief and within the law of the land.

The Church teaches that we cannot use evil means to fight an evil. Therefore we must use less direct tactis in this case.

Peace
James
 
You know i would like this genocide to end as much as the next guy but if we use force to end abortion then we are no better than terrorist who bomb crowded markets or who deny Girls the right to school.

Baby’s are dying and it is beyond words to describe this evil but attacking our enemies will get us nowhere.
 
EVEN if the man had a pregnant woman at knifepoint, we are not required to take any *specific * action… only to “do what we can” within the confines of our ethics, and the laws of the church.
that would , in this case, be calling 911… and probably trying to talk the guy into surrendering. praying might be a darn good option too…

in times when Christians were being held as slaves in Muslim lands… many of the devout offered themselves as hostages in order to let these fellow Christians go… and others raised money to buy or ransom them…
they didnt throw their lives away, or risk the hostages “charging the holdings”.

i firmly believe that i make more difference witholding my money from stores and groups that support planned parenthood, praying, speaking up, and voting… than i would EVER make by doing something violent.

and i avoid scandal and be smirching the name of the church that way too…
 
dannyh010 said:
The Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches that faithful Christians have the moral right and obligation to defend life. Regarding abortion, the most recent event in the news is the trial of the man who shot and killed a Lutheran abortion doctor. The case sparked a question for me: are abortion protestors obligated to storm abortion clinics and stop the doctor from killing the child?

Take a parallel scenario. A person in a mall is threatening the life of a pregnant mother at knife-point. To my understanding, the faithful are obligated to defend life, whether that means calling the police or taking down the attacker themselves. Wouldn’t the same principle apply to abortion?

Similar to the mall incident, an unborn child in an abortion clinic is being threatened by a doctor’s scalpel. Are the protestors outside obligated to storm the clinic and stop the abortion?
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Actually, in the case of abortion, I think that killing abortionists or storming clinics would kill more than it would save. I mean, if we are going to save lives truly, we need to get abortion recriminalized and get support to crisi pregnancy centers so women are supported and the need for back-alley abortions stop (because we should be trying to stop abortion, not JUST get it recriminalized). In order to do this we need to be a respectable gorup seen as loving, caring, and having the best interests of children and women in mind. In the long run, being peaceful and petitioning will save more lives. Killing them dirties the cause and may cause an ultimate defeat making us culpable for those deaths in the long run because we could have stopped it.

In the case of the man holding a woman at knifepoint, immediate aggressive action is needed to permanently stop that act of violence and deters future violence from other criminals (they know the public won’t tolerate it.). He have to have proper solutions to the situation. In the case of abortion, the best offense is peaceful.
 
This is a fickle pickle that many staunch pro-lifers wont touch from my experiance.
 
It is a long standing principle in the Catholic Church that one may not commit evil to prevent evil. That just multiplies evil. No one in the pro-life movement has ever advocated the murder of abortionists. That would be the opposite of a pro-life stance. I only hear this theory from pro-abortion advocates, as an attempt to muddy the issue.
 
It seems most of you has misunderstood my meaning, or I have not made it clear. I am not advocating or promoting the murder of abortion doctors or anyone else in any way, shape, or form. I was asking if pro-lifers are supposed to take more aggressive steps at stopping an abortion, like preventing the doctor from performing the act or disrupting the clinic’s services.
 
dannyh010 said:
It seems most of you has misunderstood my meaning, or I have not made it clear. I am not advocating or promoting the murder of abortion doctors or anyone else in any way, shape, or form. I was asking if pro-lifers are supposed to take more aggressive steps at stopping an abortion, like preventing the doctor from performing the act or disrupting the clinic’s services.
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No. Physical aggression is not allowed, and would be counterproductive. But pro-lifers ought to be more aggressive in promoting a change in the existing court mandated abortion on demand regime, and in opposing pro-abortion policies and pro-abortion politicians.
 
dannyh010 said:
It seems most of you has misunderstood my meaning, or I have not made it clear. I am not advocating or promoting the murder of abortion doctors or anyone else in any way, shape, or form. I was asking if pro-lifers are supposed to take more aggressive steps at stopping an abortion, like preventing the doctor from performing the act or disrupting the clinic’s services.
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In the early days more aggresive tactics were employed which disrupted the operations of the clinics. The results of the actions were the arrest of the pro-life demonstrators and the courts inssuing injuctions and rules governing the conduct that would preserve everyones rights under the law. Such rules govern how close one may be to the clinc, control what may be said to those entering clinics, and so forth.
The one thing that these methods did not do was result in a groundswell of support and demand that abortion be re-criminalized. In fact it gained for the pro-lifers a bad image that was strengthened when certain individuals stepped up from disrupting clinics to outright murder.
Thus the more aggressive tactis were show to be counterproductive. They stirred up harmful emotions in some and placed the entire movement in a bad light.

Now we take an approach much more effective. Peaceful demonstration, prayer, education, and more prayer. These tactics have severely undercut the oppositions ability to paint us in a negative way. Also they have caused more people to really think about what they are doing when they are thinking about having an abortion.

So - The Frontal assault, which is what you are asking about - was tried and failed. Now the assault is more of a pioncer movement. Protests to hold the enemies attention while they are surrounded by education and prayer. Eventually they will find themselves isolated, surrounded by a population that no longer believes in their rediculous claims about “it’s only tissue” and “every women’s choice”.

Having said all of that, I do agree that we need to have more people out in front of the clinics, more often and for longer periods. These people, armed with loving signs, will place before those entering the clinics, very clearly, the truth about what they are contemplating.
We may never again be able to achieve a complete ban on abortions, but this I know in my heart, the vast majority of Americans are not happy with the current laws, and want more leeway for the states to pass their own abortion laws.

Peace
James
 
JimG said:
It is a long standing principle in the Catholic Church that one may not commit evil to prevent evil. That just multiplies evil. No one in the pro-life movement has ever advocated the murder of abortionists. That would be the opposite of a pro-life stance. I only hear this theory from pro-abortion advocates, as an attempt to muddy the issue.
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Not entirely true on a few issues. We are allowed lethal defense of ourselves and in defense of others.

CCC
**2263 **
**2264 **
**2265 **

There is also the just war clause.
As for pro-life advocates who promote the use of violence, there are actually some fringe groups. Army of God is one, there is David C. Trosch who is a ex-priest and more. Of course these are small groups and the extreme minority, but it only takes the actions of a few to paint the whole pro-life group. The Church is on constant alert with such actions, in the 90s they even went as far as to suspend pro-life events due to violence.
 
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