Question about devotion to angels

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Hey everyone! I know that the book of Tobit says that there are seven Arch-angels, but only three are named, and i also know about the council of Rome and that whole bit… But I was wondering if devotion to the other four Arch-angels is illicit and sinful in the eyes of the church? I’ve only seen speculation elsewhere and I know you guys can answer pretty much anything! 🙂
 
it would be so nice when you get to heaven to actually see and angel…
 
xAtlasx said:
Hey everyone! I know that the book of Tobit says that there are seven Arch-angels, but only three are named, and i also know about the council of Rome and that whole bit… But I was wondering if devotion to the other four Arch-angels is illicit and sinful in the eyes of the church? I’ve only seen speculation elsewhere and I know you guys can answer pretty much anything! 🙂
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To follow the Church’s advice on this is always best. We are instucted to ask for intercession only of the named archangels in Scripture.

Personally, I do ask for the intercession of Michael, Gabriel, and Raphael.
 
I can’t wait to see the Angels in heaven! 🙂

And thanks for the guidance Dorothy 🙂
 
xAtlasx said:
I was wondering if devotion to the other four Arch-angels is illicit and sinful in the eyes of the church?
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Good angels are powerful allies! I don’t think you have to know a saint’s name to ask for his or her prayers. 🙂
 
This is something I have learned to do over the years that aids in giving me peace in all situations:
  1. When having company and serving dinner I pray for the best in that situation. I ask the Lord and Blessed Mother that our conversation give glory to the Lord, and that our being together be uplifting to all.
    Then I ask the Lord and our Blessed Mother to send angels into the gathering, to assist us.
  2. I am going to a meeting where items have to be discussed, and various people will be giving their (name removed by moderator)ut.
    I feel a bit of anxiety on the way there…(same as above, with regard to asking for the assistance of angels).
  3. I am in the church fifteen minutes before Mass begins and I pray for the celebrant, the music ministry, and all the people present…(same as above).
Everyone has a guardian angel, and the presence of more angels who are in our service for the cause of our salvation, helps much!

There are many more situations that one can think of to ask for the assistance of the holy angels and our guardian angels to prepare the way so that we may glorify the Lord in all our thoughts, words, and deeds.
 
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Dorothy:
To follow the Church’s advice on this is always best.
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Definitely :).
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Dorothy:
We are instucted to ask for intercession only of the named archangels in Scripture.
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I’m skeptical of this, considering that in the Mass we ask for the intercession of “ALL the angels and saints,” and I can’t imagine what harm it would do to ask the four unnamed archangels for intercession. Can you show me where the Church has told us that we should only pray to the named archangels?
 
xAtlasx said:
Hey everyone! I know that the book of Tobit says that there are seven Arch-angels, but only three are named, and i also know about the council of Rome and that whole bit… But I was wondering if devotion to the other four Arch-angels is illicit and sinful in the eyes of the church? I’ve only seen speculation elsewhere and I know you guys can answer pretty much anything! 🙂
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The names of the seven archangels in the Byzantine tradition is the same for both Byzantine Catholics and Orthodox. Even though Pope Zachary denounced the last four Archangels, probably do to many Roman Christians worshiping rather than just venerating these Archangels. That statement was “only” meant for the Roman Church, not for the Eastern Churches. It was made way before the Schism of 1054. But there are many Roman Catholics today who venerate St. Uriel and the other seven Archangels as well. Remember that the source of this list is both Holy Scripture and Holy Tradition, which in the East are equally inspired sources. So yes I as well as many Christians of the East do believe in all seven and pray for their intersession. They are mainly talked about during the Synaxis of the Holy Archangels and Angels. If you want to further research this. The Coptics have different names for the seven Archangels. The last three sometimes vary by name.
A point to ponder. The earliest Christian mention is by Pope Gregory I who lists them as Michael, Gabriel, Raphael, Uriel (or Anael), Simiel (or Samael), Oriphiel and Zachariel. Now if Pope Zachary denounced the last four, than Pope Gregory would be in error. I doubt he was in error. But “always” remember the Archangels and Angels are to be “venerated”, and “never” worshiped. Worship is for only the thrice Holy Trinity.
  1. St Michael
  2. St Gabriel
  3. St Raphael
  4. St Uriel
  5. St Selaphiel
  6. St Jegudiel
  7. St. Barachiel
Here is a neat Icon of all seven
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Archangels.JPG

God Bless.
 
Lief_Erikson said:
Definitely :).

I’m skeptical of this, considering that in the Mass we ask for the intercession of “ALL the angels and saints,” and I can’t imagine what harm it would do to ask the four unnamed archangels for intercession. Can you show me where the Church has told us that we should only pray to the named archangels?
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I see what you mean. It sounds correct to say that we can pray in general to “all the angels and saints”.

My reservation came when many years ago I read that some were using specific names for these (of these specific seven that included Michael, Gabriel, and Raphael ), and were told not to use the names. I don’t remember where they got the names from, whether it was speculative, or perhaps found in non-canonical writings. Perhaps it was thought that some of these names were not of the good angels? Anyway, I do remember being told to only use names of angels that were given names in Scripture. As I wrote in my first sentence, that general prayer said in the Mass, is, of course, correct.
 
bkovacs said:
The names of the seven archangels in the Byzantine tradition is the same for both Byzantine Catholics and Orthodox. Even though Pope Zachary denounced the last four Archangels, probably do to many Roman Christians worshiping rather than just venerating these Archangels. That statement was “only” meant for the Roman Church, not for the Eastern Churches. It was made way before the Schism of 1054. But there are many Roman Catholics today who venerate St. Uriel and the other seven Archangels as well. Remember that the source of this list is both Holy Scripture and Holy Tradition, which in the East are equally inspired sources. So yes I as well as many Christians of the East do believe in all seven and pray for their intersession. They are mainly talked about during the Synaxis of the Holy Archangels and Angels. If you want to further research this. The Coptics have different names for the seven Archangels. The last three sometimes vary by name.
A point to ponder. The earliest Christian mention is by Pope Gregory I who lists them as Michael, Gabriel, Raphael, Uriel (or Anael), Simiel (or Samael), Oriphiel and Zachariel. Now if Pope Zachary denounced the last four, than Pope Gregory would be in error. I doubt he was in error. But “always” remember the Archangels and Angels are to be “venerated”, and “never” worshiped. Worship is for only the thrice Holy Trinity.
  1. St Michael
  2. St Gabriel
  3. St Raphael
  4. St Uriel
  5. St Selaphiel
  6. St Jegudiel
  7. St. Barachiel
Here is a neat Icon of all seven
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Archangels.JPG

God Bless.
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Thank you for that information! I hadn’t known about that…just had part of the story. 🙂

Dorothy
 
Yes, like you, I’ve heard we aren’t supposed to name angels ourselves. But I do think we’re allowed to pray to angels without giving them names.
 
Lief_Erikson said:
Yes, like you, I’ve heard we aren’t supposed to name angels ourselves. But I do think we’re allowed to pray to angels without giving them names.
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Yes, presumably my guardian angel already has his own name, I just don’t know it. That doesn’t prevent me asking for his help. 🙂
 
If we are not supposed to name the angels when asking for their assistance, does this mean that the Chaplet of St. Michael (Michael the Archangel) is against Church teaching? I am so confused now. And why can we not use the names of the archangels in the list of seven, such as Uriel et al? If there is scripture or religious writings that name them, why can we not use their names?
 
Randi said:
If we are not supposed to name the angels when asking for their assistance, does this mean that the Chaplet of St. Michael (Michael the Archangel) is against Church teaching? I am so confused now. And why can we not use the names of the archangels in the list of seven, such as Uriel et al? If there is scripture or religious writings that name them, why can we not use their names?
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You can use the names of Raphael, Gabriel and Michael. These are recognized in official and canonical documents. The names of the other four are, to my knowledge, used in unofficial texts. Early non-canonical religious writings. I don’t know if it’s valid to use those or not; there was an earlier post that was very interesting, which presented the Eastern practices involving those four archangels. I personally couldn’t tell you about those four but I can tell you that you can definitely use the names of Gabriel, Michael and Raphael to talk with them.
 
Dorothy said:
To follow the Church’s advice on this is always best. We are instucted to ask for intercession only of the named archangels in Scripture.

Personally, I do ask for the intercession of Michael, Gabriel, and Raphael.
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This confuses me. I am not in the habit of praying to angels, anyway, since I mainly address my prayers to Mary, Jesus, St Therese, or directly to God, but I have occasionally been conscious of my Guardian Angel and thanked him or asked him to be with me. I have no name for this Angel, but I saw him in a dream once when I was contemplating doing something totally against the Church (it was during a lapsed period and someone invited me to explore Tarot with her) and he showed up looking like a very tired fellow and said to me “I have been following you all over this path but if you do that, I will not be here anymore” and he turned and went back to a paralell path to the one I was hiking in the dream. The next day I cut up the Tarot deck I had bought.

I have no doubt that he was my Guardian Angel. Satan or one of his devils would have let me go ahead with the Tarot adventure. But he has no name and I never thought to pray to him the same way we pray to Saints.

Now I feel as though I am neglecting my Guardian Angel. Should I seek to know his name? Should I develop a closer prayer relationship with this angel?
 
littlequestion said:
This confuses me. I am not in the habit of praying to angels, anyway, since I mainly address my prayers to Mary, Jesus, St Therese, or directly to God, but I have occasionally been conscious of my Guardian Angel and thanked him or asked him to be with me. I have no name for this Angel, but I saw him in a dream once when I was contemplating doing something totally against the Church (it was during a lapsed period and someone invited me to explore Tarot with her) and he showed up looking like a very tired fellow and said to me “I have been following you all over this path but if you do that, I will not be here anymore” and he turned and went back to a paralell path to the one I was hiking in the dream. The next day I cut up the Tarot deck I had bought.

I have no doubt that he was my Guardian Angel. Satan or one of his devils would have let me go ahead with the Tarot adventure. But he has no name and I never thought to pray to him the same way we pray to Saints.

Now I feel as though I am neglecting my Guardian Angel. Should I seek to know his name? Should I develop a closer prayer relationship with this angel?
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I apologize, …the way I worded what I wrote has caused confusion.

I, too, pray to my guardian angel although I do not know his name.and I would not ask his name). And, I ask our Lord and Blessed Mother to send holy angels into situations and circumstances that I am in.

What I was referring to above was the archangels, Michael, Gabriel, and Raphael, who have been named in Scripture. It is said that there are 7 specific angels together with those three. From what I understand, in our tradition we are permitted to ask the intercession of the three I mentioned because they were named in Scripture.

I trust and obey what is asked of me, and if what I have been told needs correction then I will be open to listening to it.

Peace,

Dorothy
 
littlequestion said:
This confuses me. I am not in the habit of praying to angels, anyway, since I mainly address my prayers to Mary, Jesus, St Therese, or directly to God, but I have occasionally been conscious of my Guardian Angel and thanked him or asked him to be with me. I have no name for this Angel, but I saw him in a dream once when I was contemplating doing something totally against the Church (it was during a lapsed period and someone invited me to explore Tarot with her) and he showed up looking like a very tired fellow and said to me “I have been following you all over this path but if you do that, I will not be here anymore” and he turned and went back to a paralell path to the one I was hiking in the dream. The next day I cut up the Tarot deck I had bought.

I have no doubt that he was my Guardian Angel. Satan or one of his devils would have let me go ahead with the Tarot adventure. But he has no name and I never thought to pray to him the same way we pray to Saints.

Now I feel as though I am neglecting my Guardian Angel. Should I seek to know his name? Should I develop a closer prayer relationship with this angel?
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I forgot to mention about what you related about your guardian angel. It is good that you were dissuaded from pursuing the tarot cards because of his intervention!
 
I think we really ought to stop calling them “saint” Gabriel, etc.
Saints are the souls of those who were once human, who lived here on earth, and for whatever reason, have achieved the venerable status of sainthood.
Angels were never human and were never intended to be. They exist in a total state of oneness with God’s will, by their choice (there were clearly many angels who rejected God’s will).

Perhaps we should pray to “St Mary, St Joseph, etc… and The Angel Gabriel, The Angel Michael…”? Any thoughts?

Another thought: is there anything in theology or scripture which states that angels are able to receive and respond to prayers?
 
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