Question about dying in Mortal Sin

[Tis_Bearself]

The Catechism of St. Pope Pius X :

Q. What are the effects of Extreme Unction?

A. The sacrament of Extreme Unction produces the following effects: (1) It increases sanctifying grace; (2) It remits venial sins, and also mortal sins which the sick person, if contrite, is unable to confess; (3) It takes away weakness and sloth which remain even After pardon has been obtained; (4) It gives strength to bear illness patiently, to withstand temptation and to die holily; (5) It aids in restoring us to health of body if it is for the good of the soul.

Just so you know, it’s not called “Extreme Unction” any more or regarded as the “Last Rites”. The catechism you cited is really old and out of date. The sacrament is now called the Anointing of the Sick and you can get it any time you are seriously ill or even frail and elderly. There are regular church services where any person who’s very sick or elderly can come and receive the sacrament. Both of my parents got it multiple times before they finally checked out. You can also call the priest when someone is dying and he will come and administer it, but the old idea of it being the sacrament just for a dying person is out of date.

Here is the new catechism section:

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p2s2c2a5.htm

Anointing of the Sick does cause sins to be forgiven, see section 1520, but note that the person is supposed to still be alive when they get the sacrament. It is not something that is given to a dead body. Extreme Unction also required that a person be alive - even just a tiny bit alive. Once you’re dead, it’s up to God.

Now as stated above it can be kind of hard to tell if somebody is really truly dead, so if in any doubt, the priest would probably just give the sacrament and hope for the best.

 

[Techno2000]

but note that the person is supposed to still be alive when they get the sacrament. It is not something that is given to a dead body.

Thank you and I understand this.

 

[Techno2000]

To say someone can get out of Hell is heresy.

I’m not talk about a soul damned to Hell by God and getting out, that is impossible. The Question was about the process of dying and what kind of hope a sinner might receive at their judgement.

 

[Techno2000]

Just so you know, it’s not called “Extreme Unction” any more or regarded as the “Last Rites”.

1512CCC From ancient times in the liturgical traditions of both East and West, we have testimonies to the practice of anointings of the sick with blessed oil. Over the centuries the Anointing of the Sick was conferred more and more exclusively on those at the point of death. Because of this it received the name “Extreme Unction.” Notwithstanding this evolution the liturgy has never failed to beg the Lord that the sick person may recover his health if it would be conducive to his salvation.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

This is true, but coming from a family with lots of old timey Catholics, until they changed it, it was considered the sacrament for when someone was at death’s door. People would buy crucifixes with the necessary stuff inside for the sacrament and keep them by the bed in case somebody was taken ill at home and the priest had to come in a hurry. There were many cases where the sick person would freak out when they saw the priest because it was an indication people thought they were about to die.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

1512CCC From ancient times in the liturgical traditions of both East and West, we have testimonies to the practice of anointings of the sick with blessed oil. Over the centuries the Anointing of the Sick was conferred more and more exclusively on those at the point of death. Because of this it received the name “Extreme Unction.” Notwithstanding this evolution the liturgy has never failed to beg the Lord that the sick person may recover his health if it would be conducive to his salvation.

That was the name it was given in the past.

The Council Fathers at Vatican II stated

1. “Extreme unction,” which may also and more fittingly be called “anointing of the sick,” is not a sacrament for those only who are at the point of death. Hence, as soon as any one of the faithful begins to be in danger of death from sickness or old age, the fitting time for him to receive this sacrament has certainly already arrived.

All Catholics should embrace the determination of the entirety of the world’s Catholic bishops that they made in ecumenical council.

 

[PJM]

OK so WHAt is the LESSON you hope to share here?

You’re right, but for the sake of discussion, so what?

Pray very much

PJM

 

[Kei]

But to keep in memory is that we cannot know if someone has died in a state of mortal sin.

 

[ILoveYeshua]

I was trying to answer the OP’s question thoroughly

 

[Maryanna]

Yes, dying in Mortal Sin a 100%, absolute, invariably-unchangeable sentencing to Hell under all circumstances with no chance of forgiveness, pardon, or re-sentencing whatsoever… No, there is not even the slightest hope for those who die in this state of sin.

 

[Techno2000]

Yes, dying in Mortal Sin a 100%, absolute, invariably-unchangeable sentencing to Hell under all circumstances with no chance of forgiveness, pardon, or re-sentencing whatsoever… No, there is not even the slightest hope for those who die in this state of sin.

That means 99.9% of the world population is in Hell, so why did God even bother making Mankind, so everbody can go to Hell ?

 

[Prodigal_Son]

That means 99.9% of the world population is in Hell, so why did God even bother making Mankind, so everbody can go to Hell ?

I’m not endorsing Maryanna’s answer, but she could respond by saying that mortal sin and sin including grave matter are very different things.

 

[Techno2000]

Techno2000:

That means 99.9% of the world population is in Hell, so why did God even bother making Mankind, so everbody can go to Hell ?

I’m not endorsing Maryanna’s answer, but she could respond by saying that mortal sin and sin including grave matter are very different things.

Sometimes I can almost sympathize with the atheists who believe our God is a cruel God.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

Sometimes I can almost sympathize with the atheists who believe our God is a cruel God.

Yeah, I’ve never understood the notion of mortal sin.

 

[Techno2000]

Techno2000:

Sometimes I can almost sympathize with the atheists who believe our God is a cruel God.

Yeah, I’ve never understood the notion of mortal sin.

I can understand going to Hell because you truly despise Jesus, but most of your mortal sinners don’t… they are just weak.

 

[Reuben_J]

Maryanna:

Yes, dying in Mortal Sin a 100%, absolute, invariably-unchangeable sentencing to Hell under all circumstances with no chance of forgiveness, pardon, or re-sentencing whatsoever… No, there is not even the slightest hope for those who die in this state of sin.

That means 99.9% of the world population is in Hell, so why did God even bother making Mankind, so everbody can go to Hell ?

She is right. Your response is wrong.

Consequence of mortal sin is hell but as been said earlier, with repentance and prayers, no matter how late in our life before death, it can be mitigated, meaning it would not be a mortal sin anymore. How? We leave it to the mercy of God.

So we do not know that 99.9% of the world population is in hell. You are making a judgment by saying that, which the Church does not, not even for one single person the Church would say that he/she is in hell, simply because because we do not judge whether the person dies in mortal sin or not.

Only on principle - that if one dies in mortal sin, then the consequence is hell. The Christian terminology for that is eternal damnation or eternal death or sometimes just shortened to death, like the consequence of sin is death.

As Christians, though many times in our lives we may commit mortal sins, by the redeeming power of Jesus, when we repent or regret of what we have done, God’s mercy and forgiveness is upon us. Thus it leads Paul to say, “Death, where is your sting?”

 

[Techno2000]

As Christians, though many times in our lives we may commit mortal sins, by the redeeming power of Jesus, when we repent or regret of what we have done, God’s mercy and forgiveness is upon us. Thus it leads Paul to say, “Death, where is your sting?”

Some people want to stress God’s mercy… others want to stress God’s Justice … which is it ?

 

[Reuben_J]

Reuben_J:

As Christians, though many times in our lives we may commit mortal sins, by the redeeming power of Jesus, when we repent or regret of what we have done, God’s mercy and forgiveness is upon us. Thus it leads Paul to say, “Death, where is your sting?”

Some people want to stress God’s mercy… others want to stress God’s Justice … which is it ?

Actually they are intertwined. Mercy is a big component of God’s justice. When we pray and seek God’s justice, we do because we see God’s mercy it it too.

God has to be true to his justice because he is a true God where His word is truth. He would be a lying God if He is not true to it.

So sin would have its consequence. Mortal sin - hell, venial sin - purgatory and state of grace - heaven.

The point is we cannot judge whether a person actually dies in mortal sin because it is between him and God. We only know that mortal sin will result in hell. Whether the person still has mortal sin at the time of his death, we do not know because we do not know his heart, whether he repents or not.

The good thief on the cross is a good example. All his life, he was in sin but with a few disclosure by his word to Jesus, he was forgiven.

 

[Techno2000]

Actually they are intertwined.

I know the Jury is still out on Medjugorje, but according to the Virgin Mary most people go to purgatory ,then the next amount of people will go to Hell and and the last few people go straight to heaven.This seems to me to make the most sense seeing that God’s mercy and Justice are intertwined.

 

[Reuben_J]

OK. Private revelation is private. In this case it is quite in line with what the Church teaches. It is up to the individuals to take it up though it is not obligatory.