Question About Exorcisms

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Kamalayka

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We read in the New Testament that Jesus would give His Apostles the ability to cast out demons. In the Acts of the Apostles, they would do it routinely.

for example:

(From Acts)

Once when we were going to the place of prayer, we were met by a slave girl who had a spirit by which she predicted the future. She earned a great deal of money for her owners by fortune-telling. This girl followed Paul and the rest of us, shouting, “These men are servants of the Most High God, who are telling you the way to be saved.” She kept this up for many days.* Finally Paul became so troubled that he turned around and said to the spirit, “In the name of Jesus Christ I command you to come out of her!” At that moment the spirit left her.***​

Why is it that today the Church does it so differently? They have a big ritual and it takes long periods of time, anywhere from days to months at a time.
Why is it so drastically different today than it was in the early Church?
 
Kamalayka said:
We read in the New Testament that Jesus would give His Apostles the ability to cast out demons. In the Acts of the Apostles, they would do it routinely.

for example:

(From Acts)

Once when we were going to the place of prayer, we were met by a slave girl who had a spirit by which she predicted the future. She earned a great deal of money for her owners by fortune-telling. This girl followed Paul and the rest of us, shouting, “These men are servants of the Most High God, who are telling you the way to be saved.” She kept this up for many days.* Finally Paul became so troubled that he turned around and said to the spirit, “In the name of Jesus Christ I command you to come out of her!” At that moment the spirit left her.***​

Why is it that today the Church does it so differently? They have a big ritual and it takes long periods of time, anywhere from days to months at a time.
Why is it so drastically different today than it was in the early Church?
Click to expand...
If you are interested, would encourage you to read An Exorcist Tells His Story by Fr. Gabriele Amorth. He was the chief exorcist in Rome. He answers this question more thoroughly than I could.
 
Kamalayka said:
Why is it that today the Church does it so differently? They have a big ritual and it takes long periods of time, anywhere from days to months at a time.
Why is it so drastically different today than it was in the early Church?
Click to expand...
I am not sure, but I think that answer is that there are demons and there are DEMONS. The demons are fallen angels. Just as there are different ranks for angels there are also various ranks among demons. As written in Mathew 17, the apostles did not always have such an easy time casting out demons. Some of the lesser demons can probably be exorcised with relative ease. Other demons, like the ones that gave the apostles difficulty, require more work.
 
Kamalayka said:
We read in the New Testament that Jesus would give His Apostles the ability to cast out demons. In the Acts of the Apostles, they would do it routinely.

for example:

(From Acts)

Once when we were going to the place of prayer, we were met by a slave girl who had a spirit by which she predicted the future. She earned a great deal of money for her owners by fortune-telling. This girl followed Paul and the rest of us, shouting, “These men are servants of the Most High God, who are telling you the way to be saved.” She kept this up for many days.* Finally Paul became so troubled that he turned around and said to the spirit, “In the name of Jesus Christ I command you to come out of her!” At that moment the spirit left her.***​

Why is it that today the Church does it so differently? They have a big ritual and it takes long periods of time, anywhere from days to months at a time.
Why is it so drastically different today than it was in the early Church?
Click to expand...
It’s a very sad thing. But there are a lot of reasons. For example, if there is information drafted out to the public, it could land the exorcist/exorcistee(s) into suffering unnecessary persecutions. The ecclesiastical hierarchy, if I’m correct, is keeping exorcisms more quiet/secluded from the public eye for compassion toward the exorcistees. The time it takes is for a vast number of reasons, and includes spiritual direction/counsel for the patient/s. God decides the time the devil/demon/s leave the possessed person is at the center, and God casts them out - the exorcist/“disciple” serves as the instrument through which this is accomplished.

But Fr. Gabriele Amorth’s books are simple and thorough about this subject, though he might be interpreted as biased in some little things (in the documents I’ve read about exorcisms, he’s the most reliable, though).

Peace in Christ,
MeghanEmber88
 
Kamalayka said:

\​

Why is it that today the Church does it so differently? They have a big ritual and it takes long periods of time, anywhere from days to months at a time.
Why is it so drastically different today than it was in the early Church?
Click to expand...
EVERYTHING is “drastically different” today from 2000 years ago. Haven’t you heard?

The very fact you have a Bible is a drastic difference. You didn’t think people carried their personal Bibles to worship 2000 years ago, did you?

Do you have hymnals and pews in your church? That’s a drastic difference.

How about light bulbs? This is a drastic difference from oil lamps and candles.

Don’t you look drastically different now from how you looked when you were born, much less conceived?

The very computer you are typing this on is a drastic difference from even 20 years ago!

“Primitive Christianity” is just that–PRIMITIVE. People don’t want to practice primitive obstectrics or primitive abdominal surgery, do they?

Consider the things that went along with primitive Christianity: no electricity or hot running water, government persecution, the ever-present possibility of martyrdom and torture for Christ’s sake…

Just as you grew and developed, so does the Church.

To get back to your original question about exorcism, do you think that one day, someone in the bowels of the Vatican decided to come up with the exorcism rite just for the heck of it?

Is it not more likely that exorcism rituals developed as the result of hundreds (if not thousands) of cases and the collective experience of those involved: exorcist, patient, and bystanders?

What do you actually KNOW about exorcism, other than sensationalized accounts in popular media?
 
MtnDwellar said:
I am not sure, but I think that answer is that there are demons and there are DEMONS. The demons are fallen angels. Just as there are different ranks for angels there are also various ranks among demons. As written in Mathew 17, the apostles did not always have such an easy time casting out demons. Some of the lesser demons can probably be exorcised with relative ease. Other demons, like the ones that gave the apostles difficulty, require more work.
Click to expand...
But the things is, GOD casts them out, not us. A demon is nothing before God.

The same Jesus that commanded the demos to go into the swine in the Gospel is the same God today.

He didn’t struggle or hesitate.

Think of it like this:

Imagine you are a police officer. You are directing traffic because the streetlight is broken. Why do the drivers listen to you?
Because the entire government is behind you.

If you were to do it on your own power and authority, you would get run over!

It is the same with demons.

They obey God, not you or me.
 
Kamalayka said:
But the things is, GOD casts them out, not us. A demon is nothing before God.

The same Jesus that commanded the demos to go into the swine in the Gospel is the same God today.

He didn’t struggle or hesitate.
Click to expand...
Yes, He is the same Jesus that cast out the demons that entered the swine. The problem is that very few of us have enough faith to intercede.

Father John Bakas wrote: "Jesus looks at them and says sternly: “This kind of demonic problem does not go out except by prayer and fasting.” Godly disciplined prayer, with fasting releases breakthrough power.

All that was required to banish the demons was a few words from Christ. The rest of us have to work through prayer and fasting. Also, notice that Jesus qualified the type of demon. He said, “this” kind. The apostles had already successfully banished demons. They didn’t understand why they couldn’t succeed with this one. That’s mainly where I get the idea that not all demons are created equally. I know people who have told me that they have exorcised demons simply by telling them to leave in the name of Jesus. I believe them. I suspect that they would not be so successful in every case.
 
MtnDwellar said:
Yes, He is the same Jesus that cast out the demons that entered the swine. The problem is that very few of us have enough faith to intercede.

Father John Bakas wrote: "Jesus looks at them and says sternly: “This kind of demonic problem does not go out except by prayer and fasting.” Godly disciplined prayer, with fasting releases breakthrough power.

All that was required to banish the demons was a few words from Christ. The rest of us have to work through prayer and fasting. Also, notice that Jesus qualified the type of demon. He said, “this” kind. The apostles had already successfully banished demons. They didn’t understand why they couldn’t succeed with this one. That’s mainly where I get the idea that not all demons are created equally. I know people who have told me that they have exorcised demons simply by telling them to leave in the name of Jesus. I believe them. I suspect that they would not be so successful in every case.
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Yes. Remember, too, if we had faith the size of a mustard seed, we could move mountains and walk on water. You don’t see a lot of that either.

Lord, I believe; help my unbelief!
 
In the experience of exorcists, there are different ranks of demons and, for whatever reason, some require more effort to exorcize than others. I personally know a diocesan exorcist and he has said that in some cases all that is required is a quick prayer in the name of Jesus and in other cases he has to use the full ritual. But nothing happens with regards to demons that is not allowed by God and why He allows these things and the way He allows them is a mystery to us. We can be sure that, whatever His reasons, it is all for the good and because He loves us.
 
RyanML said:
But nothing happens with regards to demons that is not allowed by God and why He allows these things and the way He allows them is a mystery to us. We can be sure that, whatever His reasons, it is all for the good and because He loves us.
Click to expand...
Am I the only one who constantly struggles with this reasoning hinking? Not directed at the poster, but just in general.

I grow very, very weary of the “mystery” at times. Demonic possession being something I have yet to have a good answer for, as in, why is it allowed at all? Kind of like why a young child is allowed to be raped, tortured, murdered etc., yet some good is supposed to eventually come of it. A mystery eh? Yeah, the mystery is people are evil, why it is allowed, at times, causes me to question my own beliefs.
 
rotlex said:
Am I the only one who constantly struggles with this reasoning hinking? Not directed at the poster, but just in general.

I grow very, very weary of the “mystery” at times. Demonic possession being something I have yet to have a good answer for, as in, why is it allowed at all? Kind of like why a young child is allowed to be raped, tortured, murdered etc., yet some good is supposed to eventually come of it. A mystery eh? Yeah, the mystery is people are evil, why it is allowed, at times, causes me to question my own beliefs.
Click to expand...
In humility, we have to understand that much about God is a mystery to us. If our very finite and fallible minds could comprehend the workings of God and penetrate the whys and wherefores then God wouldn’t be much of a Supreme Being. God’s ways are so very far above our ways and we should not limit Him to our own understandings of things. When we struggle with doubts, the best course of action is prayer: Lord, I believe. Help my unbelief. Call upon the Precious Blood as well, because when we struggle with doubts the fallen angels do not hesitate to use those moments of weakness to their advantage.

God bless!
 
rotlex said:
Am I the only one who constantly struggles with this reasoning hinking? Not directed at the poster, but just in general.

I grow very, very weary of the “mystery” at times. Demonic possession being something I have yet to have a good answer for, as in, why is it allowed at all? Kind of like why a young child is allowed to be raped, tortured, murdered etc., yet some good is supposed to eventually come of it. A mystery eh? Yeah, the mystery is people are evil, why it is allowed, at times, causes me to question my own beliefs.
Click to expand...
Luficer asked, “Why can’t* I* be God…”

We just have to accept that we don’t have every, single answer about every little thing.
We have to let go of our intellectual pride.

Remember when Jesus went to heal the person in the Gospel?

*"As Jesus passed by, He saw a man who was blind from birth. And His disciples asked Him, ‘Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?’ Jesus answered, “Neither this man nor his parents sinned, but that the works of God should be revealed in him.’”
*

The reason he was blind was so that Christ may heal him!
 
RyanML said:
In humility, we have to understand that much about God is a mystery to us. If our very finite and fallible minds could comprehend the workings of God and penetrate the whys and wherefores then God wouldn’t be much of a Supreme Being. God’s ways are so very far above our ways and we should not limit Him to our own understandings of things. When we struggle with doubts, the best course of action is prayer: Lord, I believe. Help my unbelief. Call upon the Precious Blood as well, because when we struggle with doubts the fallen angels do not hesitate to use those moments of weakness to their advantage.

God bless!
Click to expand...
Thanks for that. I do understand, it just seems as though these past few months I have been struggling greatly with these types of issues. I have been studying\attending a number of lay ministry courses my diocese offers over the past year, as well as considering the diaconate. As strange as it sounds, it seems the more I study, learn, and become involved in my faith, the more questions and doubts I begin to have. It’s actually a little scary at times. :o

Would I sound insane if I said I wonder at times if it is not a test, or a working of someone\something that could possibly be trying to tempt me away from these goals? Yeah, I know, I’m going way too off on a tangent here…sorry about that. 😊
 
Kamalayka said:
We read in the New Testament that Jesus would give His Apostles the ability to cast out demons. In the Acts of the Apostles, they would do it routinely.

for example:

(From Acts)

Once when we were going to the place of prayer, we were met by a slave girl who had a spirit by which she predicted the future. She earned a great deal of money for her owners by fortune-telling. This girl followed Paul and the rest of us, shouting, “These men are servants of the Most High God, who are telling you the way to be saved.” She kept this up for many days.* Finally Paul became so troubled that he turned around and said to the spirit, “In the name of Jesus Christ I command you to come out of her!” At that moment the spirit left her.***​

Why is it that today the Church does it so differently? They have a big ritual and it takes long periods of time, anywhere from days to months at a time.
Why is it so drastically different today than it was in the early Church?
Click to expand...
Because the Faith of the early Church was stronger. There are stories of Saints who raised the dead. Throughout history Traditions about the work and the lives have not been passed down. Ask a fellow parishnor or a Catholic school child about Saints and their lives. Ask them. Most likley they will not know. You will run into some who do. The pre VII and ones who attend EF do. There are OF Parishes who do as well. Here in Pittsburgh there is a Parish who has Devine Mercy, St. Anne, and St Theresa’ Novena and have had healings. The Novena’s and Mass are packed!

It all goes down to your local Bishop and Parish Priest. If they do not teach that Satan is real and Demonic possesion does happen or they look at it as some fairy tale that is not true? Then you know why.
 
rotlex said:
Thanks for that. I do understand, it just seems as though these past few months I have been struggling greatly with these types of issues. I have been studying\attending a number of lay ministry courses my diocese offers over the past year, as well as considering the diaconate. As strange as it sounds, it seems the more I study, learn, and become involved in my faith, the more questions and doubts I begin to have. It’s actually a little scary at times. :o

Would I sound insane if I said I wonder at times if it is not a test, or a working of someone\something that could possibly be trying to tempt me away from these goals? Yeah, I know, I’m going way too off on a tangent here…sorry about that. 😊
Click to expand...
It’s possible that the enemy could be trying to discourage you and keep you from making progress in the spiritual life. But we must also remember that God reproves those whom He loves and uses our dry and dark periods as times for our greater sanctification. That doesn’t make these times any easier but it helps to keep it in mind as our motivation to continue on and fight the good fight.

God bless!
 
RyanML said:
It’s possible that the enemy could be trying to discourage you and keep you from making progress in the spiritual life. But we must also remember that God reproves those whom He loves and uses our dry and dark periods as times for our greater sanctification. That doesn’t make these times any easier but it helps to keep it in mind as our motivation to continue on and fight the good fight.

God bless!
Click to expand...
Amen! You also have to remember, that if God allows possesion to occur, this is for His own glorification and for our faith to grow as well.
 
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