Question about gay marriage in the USA

[penguinchicky]

Hello,

I’m new and I’ve asked some questions in the Apologists forum but I guess there were more important ones they needed to answer. This may be long and I apologise at the start.

Anyway here is my question / concern. I live in the UK where you can have a civil partnership which I do not agree with. In the USA however the gay community seem to be pushing for marriage like normal men and woman can have. If this goes though I’m worried we will be on a slippery slope.

Firstly if it was passed into law gay couples would be married and I cannot see them stopping there. I can see these people pushing to then be allowed to get married in churches … because we seem to live in such a PC culture the politicians will then think to themselves … why can’t they get married in the church? I can then see them demanding that we allow them to have full marriage ceremonies and the law will then state we are discriminating against them if we refuse.

I can see once this goes into law (I pray it never does) that the Catholic Church will say no way will we do this. But unfortunately these gay couples will then sue the church as seems to be how things are done a lot of the time in the USA and the Church will end up having to pay these people millions of dollars because they were being discriminated against.

Here is my concern … if this happened all of the gay community would then band together and bankrupt the Church. I live in the UK but if the Church has to pay out millions of dollars to each couple the Church would have to give all of its money … sell its buildings to pay for it. This would affect the whole church as we are a world wide religion and after seeing the USA can do it I can see it happening in other countries like my own … and then we are left without our church or religion.

Yes I know this is a long shot and not likely to happen but I see parallels with the abortion movement where Catholic doctors and hospitals may close down because they will rightly refuse to perform them. I’m sure I read an article the other day where Obama has already passed this into law.

Sorry if this is long but I’ve been worrying about this over the past few days and I needed to get it off my chest … and I wanted to hear what American Catholics thought of the situation.

Thanks for reading and God Bless

 

[Benadam]

It’s sad to see the foundiong principles that established our laws become turned around and provide a foundation for a system that directly oppose them.

Don’t despair though, it’s not the first time the People of God have had to live in babylon.

 

[penguinchicky]

Yet all these gay couples can see is that they are being discriminated against … they compare this to race laws.

Once our world and society are indoctrinated to believe this there will be no stopping them esp in the PC would we seem to live in.

 

[rskempf]

Keep in mind, the winds of hell will blow against the Church, but will never prevail.

Our job is to keep the faith, keep learning, keep struggling to do God’s will. Along the way, try to help a few fellow brothers and sisters in Christ.

Pray for those that are against the church and defiant. They will experience incredible and eternal suffering.

Rick

 

[Benadam]

Yet all these gay couples can see is that they are being discriminated against … they compare this to race laws.

Once our world and society are indoctrinated to believe this there will be no stopping them esp in the PC would we seem to live in.

With a false sense of victimhood they will point out the real victims and accuse them of being their abusers. It’s the way of the cross.

 

[Dale_M]

Same-sex marriage will eventually be nationwide in the US. It may not happen for 50 years or more, but every year new children are born and eventually become adults. For the past 30 years, Polls have indicated that each succeeding crop of new adults is more accepting of homosexuality than the previous one.

As for gays and lesbians demanding the right to marry in specific churches, this is unlikely to happen in the US because we have a strong tradition of separation between church and state. It might happen in other countries, though.

 

[penguinchicky]

I’m 26 and do not think its okay to be gay … I have no kids yet but I certinally won’t be telling them when I do have them that its okay!

 

[Luke_K]

I think Bishop Sheen predicted that one of the greatest challenges the Church will face in this century is the idea that the political is all that matters.

I’m in attendance at a pretty secular university right now and I can totally see this happening. There is definitely a large hostility towards any notion of religious principles being applied in government in any way. Basically, some people seem to think that religion is just sort of a feel-good personal lifestyle that should not have any say in the way a society conducts itself.

So to answer the OP’s concern, I do think there is a danger to the Church with the homosexual civil marriage movement. I believe that the respect for religion has been and will continue to be degraded by those that incessantly cry out that religion is “hateful and intolerant”, and that love somehow means accepting and supporting whatever your fellow man does.

An interesting quote from the recent court ruling in Iowa that legalized gay civil marriage: “Yet, perhaps the ultimate disadvantage expressed in the testimony of the plaintiffs is the inability to obtain for themselves and for their children the personal and public
affirmation that accompanies marriage.”

The main goal of the gay civil marriage movement it seems is to gain public recognition and affirmation, perhaps even mandatory acceptance of their lifestyles. The OP’s concerns may be a little too far out, but do hint at a real problem.

It would be hard for the U.S. government to force the Church to perform gay marriages however, what with the huge emphasis secularists in this country put on our “separation of church and state.”

But as G.K. Chesterton put it: “Once abolish God and the government becomes the God.”

 

[Elizabeth502]

Same-sex marriage will eventually be nationwide in the US. It may not happen for 50 years or more, but every year new children are born and eventually become adults. For the past 30 years, Polls have indicated that each succeeding crop of new adults is more accepting of homosexuality than the previous one.

As for gays and lesbians demanding the right to marry in specific churches, this is unlikely to happen in the US because we have a strong tradition of separation between church and state. It might happen in other countries, though.

Dale, for many of us, we see a real distinction between “accepting” homosexuality without judgment (of the person) and elevating homosexuality, particularly partnership, as something identical in value and status to heterosexual partnership. (Since the thread subject is not just homosexuality but ‘gay marriage.’)

And do the polls you’re considering also track reversals of previous positions, as young people age? – because that is the other typical and opposing trend. It’s not just that young people tend to be open, iconoclastic, and experimental, it is also that they have little life experience and see little need for caution, because they have personally experienced few negative consequences to experimentation in the arcs of their own lives.

If your trend predictions are true, I suppose I feel even less hopeful about consensus. I believe that as in some other countries, a kind of informal ‘separatism’ will begin to operate – between those who perceive themselves as traditional and/or religious, vs. those who identify as secular and whose alliance is with governmental approval.

 

[Dale_M]

Dale, for many of us, we see a real distinction between “accepting” homosexuality without judgment (of the person) and elevating homosexuality, particularly partnership, as something identical in value and status to heterosexual partnership. (Since the thread subject is not just homosexuality but ‘gay marriage.’)

Hi Elizabeth,

I see and accept the distinction you make.

And do the polls you’re considering also track reversals of previous positions, as young people age? – because that is the other typical and opposing trend. It’s not just that young people tend to be open, iconoclastic, and experimental, it is also that they have little life experience and see little need for caution, because they have personally experienced few negative consequences to experimentation in the arcs of their own lives.

You are right that individuals often become more conservative as they age. I know I have.

I guess I don’t have information precisely on what you are asking.

If your trend predictions are true, I suppose I feel even less hopeful about consensus. I believe that as in some other countries, a kind of informal ‘separatism’ will begin to operate – between those who perceive themselves as traditional and/or religious, vs. those who identify as secular and whose alliance is with governmental approval.

I don’t think lack of consensus is anything new to the US. We’ve always had groups and regions which felt excluded from the mainstream.

I am hopeful that religion will continue to play an important part in our country’s cultural and political life. But I think the success of the Religious Right has fueled a backlash, with more and more people being hostile to religion.

 

[edwest2]

First, gay marriage is not a civil rights issue:

media.www.hlrecord.org/media/storage/paper609/news/2004/03/11/Opinion/Guest.Opinion.Gay.Marriage.Is.Not.A.Civil.Rights.Issue-632124.shtml

Second, this is a continuation of the 1968 “sexual revolution” or Free Love, which just means a small group of anarchists and Hippies started telling people that it was OK to have sex with anyone. As a Hippie friend told me: “I don’t no piece of paper to live with my old lady.”

1973 Abortion legalized and homosexuality is removed as a mental illness. The latter was brought about by radicals in the gay rights movement.

The entire assault on normal, God given sexuality was prompted by the Pope issuing Humanae Vitae in 1968, telling Catholics not to use artificial birth control. Had Catholics listened to the Pope then, we wouldn’t be where we are today. But the attack had to come because the sale of millions of birth control pills was at stake. Even a few priests got involved.

As V.I. Lenin said: Destroy the family and you destroy society.

Now, there are already plans for what happens Beyond Gay Marriage:

firstthings.com/onthesquare/?p=330

You’ll note that one of the signers of the document mentioned is Gloria Steinem, who, along with the National Organization for Women, helped to create an atmosphere of fear, suspicion and mistrust between men and women in the late 1970s. “Sisters! Throw off the chains of your oppression!” The eternal enemy were men. All women are or will become the victims of this eternal enemy – a mind set that exists to this day. Miss Steinem said: A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle.

This created a very fertile ground so when the 1980s rolled around with No-Fault Divorce, people started the trend we still see today. The goal was to wipe out the family.

Peace,
Ed

 

[Elizabeth502]

First, gay marriage is not a civil rights issue:

media.www.hlrecord.org/media/storage/paper609/news/2004/03/11/Opinion/Guest.Opinion.Gay.Marriage.Is.Not.A.Civil.Rights.Issue-632124.shtml

Second, this is a continuation of the 1968 “sexual revolution” or Free Love, which just means a small group of anarchists and Hippies started telling people that it was OK to have sex with anyone. As a Hippie friend told me: “I don’t no piece of paper to live with my old lady.”

1973 Abortion legalized and homosexuality is removed as a mental illness. The latter was brought about by radicals in the gay rights movement.

The entire assault on normal, God given sexuality was prompted by the Pope issuing Humanae Vitae in 1968, telling Catholics not to use artificial birth control. Had Catholics listened to the Pope then, we wouldn’t be where we are today. But the attack had to come because the sale of millions of birth control pills was at stake. Even a few priests got involved.

As V.I. Lenin said: Destroy the family and you destroy society.

Now, there are already plans for what happens Beyond Gay Marriage:

firstthings.com/onthesquare/?p=330

You’ll note that one of the signers of the document mentioned is Gloria Steinem, who, along with the National Organization for Women, helped to create an atmosphere of fear, suspicion and mistrust between men and women in the late 1970s. “Sisters! Throw off the chains of your oppression!” The eternal enemy were men. All women are or will become the victims of this eternal enemy – a mind set that exists to this day. Miss Steinem said: A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle.

This created a very fertile ground so when the 1980s rolled around with No-Fault Divorce, people started the trend we still see today. The goal was to wipe out the family.

Peace,
Ed

Ed, I agree with most of your post, esp. the part about gay marriage not being a civil right. To that end, I’d like to know where all the Catholic lawyers have been. The Church, except in CA, has largely been sitting idle while the issue is flagged and then ultimately passed. Granted, I guess these have been most or all legislative actions (not judicial), but I’d just like to see more Catholic presence before the fact. Now Dolan talks about attacks on marriage. Where was his voice before? I didn’t hear it before the recent CT action. Let’s get busy, Catholic NY. Your state is next.

In non-Catholic, non-Mormon circles, the tide is fast sweeping against the traditional institution of marriage, and for “anything goes.” Maybe it will be, as Dale says on another thread, routine in 50 years. Either that, or in 50 years or less, the world will grow weary of gender rhetoric and sexuality fixations, and begin to focus on God again. I’m trying to remain hopeful, but it gets pretty hard sometimes.

 

[penguinchicky]

On a side note … if gay marraige is allowed … why then cannot a mormon legally marry his 8 wives … or someone else marry their dog? When will this stop? Until our society is in ruin?

 

[Newbie2]

On a side note … if gay marraige is allowed … why then cannot a mormon legally marry his 8 wives … or someone else marry their dog? When will this stop? Until our society is in ruin?

As I’ve always thought, we have so many similarities to the Ancient Roman Empire…

 

[Mark77]

Same-sex marriage will eventually be nationwide in the US. It may not happen for 50 years or more, but every year new children are born and eventually become adults. For the past 30 years, Polls have indicated that each succeeding crop of new adults is more accepting of homosexuality than the previous one.

As for gays and lesbians demanding the right to marry in specific churches, this is unlikely to happen in the US because we have a strong tradition of separation between church and state. It might happen in other countries, though.

**We are “more accepting” of lies because we do not know the Truth as Jesus teaches it through His Catholic Church.
**
Today’s false “tradition of separation” only works in the favor of the secular and the government, ie. no bibles, prayer in public schools, it never works the other way around in today’s “secular progressive” world. (There never was a “separation” intended by our founding Fathers, only a severe limit on government’s role in private lives, including in our religious lives,ie. freedom of religion, “IN GOD WE TRUST!”).

**Boston’s Catholic Charities has already had to abandon it’s beautiful adoption program because of legislation that requires gay adoption or face discrimination lawsuits!
**
Gay marriages in Catholic Churches is next! Once legal, then the hate speech and discrimination lawsuits will follow, forcing the Church to perform these farcical “marriages”, which will soon be followed by polygamist and other false “marriages” (You can soon marry your dog or cat legally!).

**Jesus tells us; “Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.” (Mt 10:34.)
**
The GOOD NEWS is that Jesus has already won the WAR, all we have to do is stand up for His Truth, no matter what the cost is to us personally!

"Then they left the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer dishonor for the name." (ACTS 5:41).

Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, Ora Pro Nobis Peccatoribus!

Mark

 

[elts1956]

Same-sex marriage will eventually be nationwide in the US. It may not happen for 50 years or more, but every year new children are born and eventually become adults. For the past 30 years, Polls have indicated that each succeeding crop of new adults is more accepting of homosexuality than the previous one.

How do you suppose this will happen??? Perhaps a watering down and laxity of morals? Please note, I am not advocating homosexual bashing, those folks have enough on their plates for me to add any more pain to their existence.

Isn’t this exactly what has happened to our values, a watering down of what is absolute truth to an acceptance of relativism? Most of us ignored the signs and look what we have to fight now, a pro abort administration and pro death culture that sinks its teeth deeper into society every day.
As for gays and lesbians demanding the right to marry in specific churches, this is unlikely to happen in the US because we have a strong tradition of separation between church and state. It might happen in other countries, though.

What does this have to do with separation of Church and State. As long as the Church accepts federal funding the power is in the secular law. We need to stop accepting government funding.