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PRmerger
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Wow. Impressive, but nothing compared to the 2000 years of the Church’s witness to Truth.
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cristininha
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:coffeeread:
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knack
Guest
Hi all,
I’m from CA, where we barely got Proposition 8 (restoring the true definition of marriage) passed
Here’s where I’m in a bind: many of my friends, who are Catholic (or at least refer to themselves as such) voted against Prop 8 and are very unhappy with the results. For example, one of my friends writes as her status on Facebook, “[name of person] knows Jesus would never deny a human right & people that use the Bible to say yes on Prop 8 show their ignorance and uncompassionate heart for human rights.”
So, I’m working on ways to present what the Church teaches about marriage and homosexuality (and gay “marriage”). The primary argument against Prop 8 frames marriage as an equality and civil rights issue.
Here’s my question though: is marriage definable as a “human right”? I’m struggling to come up with a definite answer from a Catholic perspective. Also, if anyone has any general ideas for ways to explain TRUE Catholic teaching in this regard, I’d appreciate it.
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knack
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G’Day , just giving u some insight on what God thinks about Gay Marriages OR Gay in general.
IT clearly states in the bible in Romans chapter 1, verse 18 , what God’s holy word which is Truth, that in the begining God created Adam & Eve , not Adam & Steve.
Have a read on what Romans 1 / 18 says.
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"God’s Wrath Against Mankind
18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.
24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion].
28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.
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I hope this has answered your Question, further more anything that tries & stop the family from growing & reproducing goes totally against God’s plan , such as gay marriages, devorce, abortion,etc.
All these things r a weapon that the Devil uses to break down the family.If u stop the family you stop the world.
Go always in our lord’s peace Amen.
Knack.
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fix
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I do not claim to be.
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sedonaman
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According to this logic, two consenting adults could get together and plot to commit a crime and it would be OK, yet conspiracy is a felony. Should we eliminate conspiracy from the list of crimes?
Forty years ago, I remember that sodomites told us all they wanted was to be left alone. If that was true, and there is no slippery slope, why are we having this debate?
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fix
Guest
I asked if you were the authority because your statements seem to place you above the Church founded by Christ. If Christ does not speak through His Church on these matters does that mean those who have attended some college are the authority?
Why should any person accept your assertions particularly when they conflict with Church teaching? Particularly when they contradict the natural moral law and centuries of Sacred Tradition? Who is your authority?
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sedonaman
Guest
The next time you need medical care, heal yourself. Don’t go to a doctor; don’t ask anyone else for advice; don’t even consult any medical books; think for yourself.
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PRmerger
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Yup. And next time you go to the grocery store, Malachy, try the “I’m just thinking for myself” routine when you decide to make your own truth up about math. You’ve decided that your groceries total up to $10 when the math says it’s $150. See what happens.
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sedonaman
Guest
What’s wrong with being homophobic? Is it one of the unforgivable sins of Leftist/liberal thought? If so, good. Leftists are Th****Oppers. I believe those who are out to overturn all of society should be feared; it’s a perfectly normal and natural reaction, more normal and natural than, say, two men in bed sodomizing each other.
"What started as a demand for basic civil rights has mutated into a Leftist demand to overturn the whole society, along with its traditions and norms, its standards and laws, its history and heroes.”
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sedonaman
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He should also avoid consulting Consumer Reports or any other similar publications the next time he makes a purchase. He should think for himself and not rely on those with much more knowledge.
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NoMoreGames
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].
28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.
It says they were inflamed with lust for one another. That sounds an awful lot like the homosexuality i referred to in Greek times. My boyfriend and I do not lust. We do not commit any sexual acts with each other. We are not consumed with lust. That passage mentions nothing on loving relationships that progress past the physical level.
And how it is brought up that marriage was instituted between a man and a woman. True, but if you want to go back to that, why not arranged marriages? Why not wives being totally subordinate to their husbands. I know the Bible talks about that, it was last week’s reading. When arranged marriages and subordination vanished from society, it met with it’s fair share of opposition. Today, we wouldn’t have it any other way. Love is love.
“God’s way’s are not man’s ways. God’s thoughts are not man’s thoughts.” Men are scared, discriminate, and condemn. God loves.
Although I’ll admit I can get envious, I am not consumed with senselessness, nor faithlessness. Nor do I condone the types of behaviors mentions in the second half of the passage. I don’t think those two statements are necessarily connected.
The Bible must be take with a grain of salt. It contains God’s truths, but in the words of man. The early church was corrupts with lust for power. Men wrote things to gain control. The devil and infiltrate almost anything with enough persistence and man’s lack of faith.
I know what I wrote here will not change anyones mind, but I somehow feel better knowing that my feelings are out in the open.
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fix
Guest
When I read people claiming the Church is wrong, the bible is wrong, men are sinners, and all the rest I have to wonder why they think they are right? Are they not men who sin and make errors?
Basically, we are told to accept all of Church teaching on this topic is wrong, right reason is wrong, common sense is wrong, philosophy is wrong, theology is wrong, the vicar of Christ is wrong, and those that participate in these behaviors are correct.
Basically, we are told to accept all of Church teaching on this topic is wrong, right reason is wrong, common sense is wrong, philosophy is wrong, theology is wrong, the vicar of Christ is wrong, and those that participate in these behaviors are correct.
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stbruno
Guest
- catholiceducation.org/articles/homosexuality/ho0095.html*
*The media portrays the homosexual lifestyle and relationships as happy, healthy and stable. However, the homosexual lifestyle is associated with a large number of very serious physical and emotional health consequences. Many ‘committed’ homosexual relationships only last a few years. This raises doubts as to whether children raised in same-sex households are being raised in a protective environment. *
A. There are very high rates of sexual promiscuity among the homosexual population with short duration of even ‘committed’ relationships. - A study of homosexual men shows that more than 75% of homosexual men admitted to having sex with more than 100 different males in their lifetime: approximately 15% claimed to have had 100-249 sex partners, 17% claimed 250-499, 15% claimed 500-999 and 28% claimed more than 1,000 lifetime sexual partners. (Bell AP, Weinberg MS. Homosexualities. New York 1978).
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NoMoreGames
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That doesn’t mean all. I could post statistics on how many straight people are thieves, rapists and murderers. Does that mean every one is bad? There are lies, damned lies, and statistics.
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Kevin42
Guest
So, you are saying you and your boyfriend don’t lust after each other and you do not engage in sexual relations? Is what you share a purely agape love?
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NoMoreGames
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Don’t you expect straight non-married couples to control their lust and not partake in sexual actions until marriage? Would you questions the love in their relationship? You’d probably think it was stronger than that between those who are sexually active.
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Kevin42
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I would expect it, but seeing as I have failed miserably at it, I now understand how many people find it difficult
. Lord have mercy.I was just going to say though, if you are just sharing an agape love, and simply stayed on that path there would be no problem. Of course, this would lead you to a very deep brotherhood as opposed to a marital relationship.
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NoMoreGames
Guest
Well then perhaps that is what will happen. No one knows what the future holds. Remember that attraction and lust are two very different, though easily confused, feelings.I would expect it, but seeing as I have failed miserably at it, I now understand how many people find it difficult
I was just going to say though, if you are just sharing an agape love, and simply stayed on that path there would be no problem. Of course, this would lead you to a very deep brotherhood as opposed to a marital relationship.
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