Question about Gay Marriage

[KingAlfred]

I had an interesting experience yesterday at school. A student who gave me a really nice Christmas card, on which he wrote that I was his favorite teacher, approached me yesterday and asked, with excitement, if I supported gay marriage. I could tell he expected me to immediately respond that I do, and with enthusiasm. I stumbled a bit, and said something along the lines of, “Well…uh…actually…no.” He looked almost shocked, and said, “Sir, that’s a big disappointment. That changes everything between us.” I said, “I don’t have anything against gay people. I just can’t support gay marriage.” He became sullen, grumbled something negative, and walked away. Teachers are almost always expected to be liberal, by students and other teachers alike. I’m not.

 

[iamme]

No, Marriage is not a right. Marriage is a sacrament. A gift from God to help us come in closer union to him. Since same-sex couples cannot come closer to God through any type of union with each other, they could never obtain a valid Marriage.

well, you say its a gift from god to “us”, and im assuming youre using “us” in the mankind context. i dont believe marraige should be legislated by the state, and that it should not be recognized in any capacity by any government agency, and that there should be one title given to anyone who seek to join as partners for life, and can reap the same benefits as any other pair.
the problem with prop 8 (at least one of, among the many) was that it didnt protect anyones rights, but took away rights already obtained, and it was disgusting. marraige these days is simply a word, and those who believe it is sacred shouldnt be working to ban gay marraige, they should be looking to abolish divorce, making it a crime, and then worry about what those “sinful gays” are doing.
if its so horrible in the eyes of god, im sure hed do something about it, and barring that, hed allow us to exercise our free will, giving us all equal footing, and sorting out whats what when the time comes. i dont think you get punished for allowing people to live their lives equally to others…

 

[iamme]

I had an interesting experience yesterday at school. A student who gave me a really nice Christmas card, on which he wrote that I was his favorite teacher, approached me yesterday and asked, with excitement, if I supported gay marriage. I could tell he expected me to immediately respond that I do, and with enthusiasm. I stumbled a bit, and said something along the lines of, “Well…uh…actually…no.” He looked almost shocked, and said, “Sir, that’s a big disappointment. That changes everything between us.” I said, “I don’t have anything against gay people. I just can’t support gay marriage.” He became sullen, grumbled something negative, and walked away. Teachers are almost always expected to be liberal, by students and other teachers alike. I’m not.

theyre expected to be liberal because they use reason and logic to teach, and to learn, and theres nothing logical or reasonable about faith.
you dont have anything against gay people, but you believe they should be denied a basic right that ever other world citizen has?
that sounds like a big “something against” to me, even tho you may not realize it is…

 

[PRmerger]

if its so horrible in the eyes of god, im sure hed do something about it, and barring that, hed allow us to exercise our free will, giving us all equal footing, and sorting out whats what when the time comes. i dont think you get punished for allowing people to live their lives equally to others…

Really? You know this about God?

From your post I’m assuming that you reject Christianity’s understanding about God, so I’m wondering how you know “he’d do something about it” and “allow us to exercise our free will.” Says who?

(Not that I’m necessarily disagreeing with your understanding about God, I’m just wondering where these ideas come from. It seems to me that *Christianity *has told you that God gives us free will, that God is a compassionate God, etc etc)

 

[iamme]

Homosexuals and lesbians have no more right to marry than two brothers have a right to marry, or two sisiters, or a man and his sister, or a man and his aunt, or a woman and her aunt, or two women with one man, or one man with two women. Allowing two people of the same sex to marry would open the door to chaos–anything goes. There would no longer be any legal reason to stop anyone one from marrying anyone else, or one could claim discrimination.

yes!
thats why i want it legal, so i can bang babies and sheep ALL the time! theres no way people could say thats wrong if two consenting adults can be together!

thats the most ridiculous arguement of all.
if you really think gay marriage is a “slippery slope” to legal incest, pedophilia, and bestiality, then maybe god should just push down the plunger and blow us the hell up already…

 

[iamme]

Really? You know this about God?

From your post I’m assuming that you reject Christianity’s understanding about God, so I’m wondering how you know “he’d do something about it” and “allow us to exercise our free will.” Says who?

(Not that I’m necessarily disagreeing with your understanding about God, I’m just wondering where these ideas come from. It seems to me that *Christianity *has told you that God gives us free will, that God is a compassionate God, etc etc)

god is omniscient, he could do anything conceivably and inconceivably imaginable. if something is such an atrocious thought to him, so much so that he doesnt think we could survive physically or morally because of it, why WOULDNT he take the steps to do something about it, as he has been known to do. otherwise, i just think he trusts us all to use or our free will to decide what is right for us, and to try and guide people to right, but to never force them…

is that any better, he asks honestly, and not condescendingly?

 

[PRmerger]

god is omniscient, he could do anything conceivably and inconceivably imaginable. if something is such an atrocious thought to him, so much so that he doesnt think we could survive physically or morally because of it, why WOULDNT he take the steps to do something about it, as he has been known to do. otherwise, i just think he trusts us all to use or our free will to decide what is right for us, and to try and guide people to right, but to never force them…

is that any better, he asks honestly, and not condescendingly?

You really didn’t answer the question, iamme. How do you know this about God? Who told you He is omniscient? Was this a personal revelation? Does God speak to you and tell you these things?

 

[iamme]

You really didn’t answer the question, iamme. How do you know this about God? Who told you He is omniscient? Was this a personal revelation? Does God speak to you and tell you these things?

if i say that god does speak to me, youd call me a blasphemer or just crazy…
some guys write it in a book 1500 years ago and its holy.
i think god speaks to everyone, its just whether you listen, and how you interpret that makes the difference.
i considered myself a christian for the first 15 years of my life, pretty devotedly so, or as devotedly as a kid can be, and i was crushed to have to leave the people who claimed they spoke for god, because they were more right in gods eyes than me, an abomination.
also, i got that stuff i just said from a lil book called bible.
“i am the alpha and omega” yadda yadda.
then theres the tower of babel, soddom and gamhorra, the flood.
im pretty sure the free will thing is mentioned in genesis somewhere.
oh, something i didnt mention was jesus dismantling the levitican laws in the gospels, and he never once mentioned two dudes being together as ungodly…

 

[PRmerger]

if i say that god does speak to me, youd call me a blasphemer or just crazy…
some guys write it in a book 1500 years ago and its holy.
i think god speaks to everyone, its just whether you listen, and how you interpret that makes the difference.
i considered myself a christian for the first 15 years of my life, pretty devotedly so, or as devotedly as a kid can be, and i was crushed to have to leave the people who claimed they spoke for god, because they were more right in gods eyes than me, an abomination.
also, i got that stuff i just said from a lil book called bible.
“i am the alpha and omega” yadda yadda.
then theres the tower of babel, soddom and gamhorra, the flood.
im pretty sure the free will thing is mentioned in genesis somewhere.
oh, something i didnt mention was jesus dismantling the levitican laws in the gospels, and he never once mentioned two dudes being together as ungodly…

Ok, then! So you get your concepts of God from the bible. Excellent.

So now, how do you determine what’s true, what’s fable in the bible? How do you decide that Jesus did indeed say He is the alpha and omega, but reject, say, that He said to His apostles (and therefore to the magisterium today): “He who hears you hears Me”. Just a feeling you have that something soundsright to you?

 

[iamme]

Ok, then! So you get your concepts of God from the bible.

So now, how do you determine what’s true, what’s fable in the bible? How do you decide that Jesus did indeed say He is the alpha and omega, but reject, say, that He said to His apostles (and therefore to the magisterium today): “He who hears you hears Me”. Just a feeling you have that something *sounds *right to you?

i got my original concepts of god from the bible.
since leaving the church theyve evolved, tho im sure some would say devolved, but i use it mostly to relate to people still in the church, and it helps, because while i dont always agree with it, i can understand their viewpoint and it keeps me from being one of those angry “all religious people are crazy jerks” people. my family is still very religious, and i refuse to accept people who would demean them because of their beliefs, just as they would (and have done) the same for me.

i think part of my current beliefs come from the “if i were god, with all his tools at his disposal, and with the world as it is and was, who would i be?” question. i dont know if youve ever thought of that, but i do, and its not a “what would i do?” question, but who would i be? what type of fella would i be? what type of beer would i grab from the store? (the answers guinness )
so yeah, thats where i come from, and alot of people dont get it, but thats cool, as i dont try to force them into my way of thinking, as its obviously not for everyone…

 

[PRmerger]

i think part of my current beliefs come from the “if i were god, with all his tools at his disposal, and with the world as it is and was, who would i be?” question. i dont know if youve ever thought of that, but i do, and its not a “what would i do?” question, but who would i be? what type of fella would i be? what type of beer would i grab from the store? (the answers guinness )

Wow. “If I were god, who would I be?” Hmm…

I appreciate your candor, but how in the world can a finite mind decide what an infinite mind is? This is as ludicrous as a sheep contemplating, “If I were a person, what type of grass would I eat?”

as i dont try to force them into my way of thinking, as its obviously not for everyone…

That’s cool. Then I don’t think you should ever tell any group of people what they should or shouldn’t do!

 

[iamme]

Wow. “If I were god, who would I be?” Hmm…

I appreciate your candor, but how in the world can a finite mind decide what an infinite mind is? This is as ludicrous as a sheep contemplating, “If I were a person, what type of grass would I eat?”

you mean i can never comprehend the incomprehensible?!?
NOOOOOOOOOO!
but yeah, i think it tends to make god a more human, relatable figure than an invisible magic man in the sky who only left a book that could never prepare us for the modern age, then taking off like an absentee dad.

That’s cool. Then I don’t think you should ever tell any group of people what they should or shouldn’t do!

yeah, it is cool. if only most people were as considerate…

 

[PRmerger]

you mean i can never comprehend the incomprehensible?!

Umm…yeah…because the definition of incomprehensible is that which cannot be understood. Otherwise it would be comprehended, not incomprehensible.

but yeah, i think it tends to make god a more human, relatable figure than an invisible magic man in the sky who only left a book that could never prepare us for the modern age, then taking off like an absentee dad.

You can create a god in any image that you like, but that won’t make it true. And, if you subscribe to this philosophy, then you should never ever criticize a group which, say, has decided that god likes it when old men marry multiple young women and then have sex with their children. That’s what they’ve decided god would do if they were god.

yeah, it is cool. if only most people were as considerate…

Are you saying that people SHOULD be considerate? I thought you said you shouldn’t tell people what to do?

 

[NoMoreGames]

First off it really bothers me how most of you say gay “marriage” second, both my boyfriend and I are very involved Catholics. We love celebrating mass together and often talk about our faith. I dint understand how, as one of the earlier posts stated, we marriage wouldn’t bring us closer to God. I try every day to follow the two most important commandments, and I honestly believe that this relationship has strengthened my faith. I’ve dated others who were not Catholic, or even Christian, and it made me realize how important is is to love God to uphold a relationship. Maybe it’s because of my perspective, but I don’t understand how gay couples couldn’t grow closer to God through the sacrament of marriage.

 

[iamme]

Umm…yeah…because the definition of incomprehensible is that which cannot be understood. Otherwise it would be comprehended, not incomprehensible.

merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sarcasm

You can create a god in any image that you like, but that won’t make it true. And, if you subscribe to this philosophy, then you should never ever criticize a group which, say, has decided that god likes it when old men marry multiple young women and then have sex with their children. That’s what they’ve decided god would do if they were god.

1. im pretty sure thats what everyone (or group of people) have done since the conception of god. theyve taken what suits them, applies it to their lives, or applies it against what they oppose.
2. i havent criticized anyone, ive criticized actions people have taken to DENY the rights of others, which is abhorrent, to me, that in this day and age, we should ever even try to do that… actually, no, im starting prop 9, sos we cans gets our slaves back! my cotton doesnt pick itself, yknow…

Are you saying that people SHOULD be considerate? I thought you said you shouldn’t tell people what to do?

its cute that youre being intentionally dense, but saying you think people SHOULD be considerate, and forcing them to do so are two completely different things.
in fact, consideration cant be forced, its a choice made by the individual… kinda like how you point your butt away from people when you fart. you dont have to, but its considerate…

oh, i should include a smiley here to show how clever i am…

 

[iamme]

First off it really bothers me how most of you say gay “marriage” second, both my boyfriend and I are very involved Catholics. We love celebrating mass together and often talk about our faith. I dint understand how, as one of the earlier posts stated, we marriage wouldn’t bring us closer to God. I try every day to follow the two most important commandments, and I honestly believe that this relationship has strengthened my faith. I’ve dated others who were not Catholic, or even Christian, and it made me realize how important is is to love God to uphold a relationship. Maybe it’s because of my perspective, but I don’t understand how gay couples couldn’t grow closer to God through the sacrament of marriage.

duh!
cause then we marry babies and goats next!
SLIPPERY SLOPE!!!

 

[PRmerger]

oh, i should include a smiley here to show how clever i am…

You should have included a smiley to show how clever you *think *you are.

 

[PRmerger]

im pretty sure thats what everyone (or group of people) have done since the conception of god. theyve taken what suits them, applies it to their lives, or applies it against what they oppose.

Agreed.

1. i havent criticized anyone, ive criticized actions people have taken to DENY the rights of others, which is abhorrent, to me, that in this day and age, we should ever even try to do that… actually, no, im starting prop 9, sos we cans gets our slaves back! my cotton doesnt pick itself, yknow…

Same for the Catholic Church. She criticizes actions. Love the sinner, hate the sin and all that.

its cute that youre being intentionally dense,

tsk tsk. Now you’re just being intentionally rude.

but saying you think people SHOULD be considerate, and forcing them to do so are two completely different things.

Yup. No disagreement there.

 

[PRmerger]

you mean i can never comprehend the incomprehensible?!?

Just for the sake of clarity: if you meant “you mean I can never CONTEMPLATE the incomprehensible?!?” then I would respond that of course we are obligated to contemplate and attempt to understand God. Scripture tells us to Love God with all our MIND…

 

[iamme]

Same for the Catholic Church. She criticizes actions. Love the sinner, hate the sin and all that.

if you voted on prop 8, how did you, and if you didnt get to how would you have voted, and why?

tsk tsk. Now you’re just being intentionally rude.

Yup. No disagreement there.

not at all, you now say no disagreement, when in the post i quoted you WERE making a disagreement, making my “intentionally dense” remark not rude, but true, by your own words and lack of consistency…