Question about "gay marriage"?

[Brendan]

Within my own mind: marriage within the Church (that is, marriage by God) and marriage within our nation’s law are two entirely different things; they shouldn’t “collide.” Surely, others feel like this confused?

God bless!

I disagree. I would rather our laws be based on goodness and justice.

 

[Rau]

Within my own mind: marriage within the Church (that is, marriage by God) and marriage within our nation’s law are two entirely different things; they shouldn’t “collide.” Surely, others feel like this confused?

God bless!

Surely some do!

Do you take the view that the Venue in which the marriage occurs determines its fundamental nature?

Marriage is not “by God”. The parties marry each other, regardless of venue.

 

[CompSciGuy]

Ignorance is not an excuse fo be able to make blanket statements about complicated psychosexual diagnosis.

The whole basis of the transgender argument is that “gender” as it is defined is not the same as “sex” but rather something else, supposedly metaphysical, that defines who you are as a human being. I have not had one single proponent of transgenderism give a concrete definition of what that is.

I presume that you are not transgender, i.e. that the gender you believe yourself to be matches your sex. If you are a woman, can you tell me objectively what it means to be a woman? Can you also tell me what it would feel like to be a man? And you can’t say “well, as a woman I would be able to feel that I have breasts, or as a man I would be able to feel that I have a penis” because that is sex, remember that. All we are left with are gender stereotypes.

Despite this bizarre argument that sex and gender are different, when you look at transgenderism in practice, much of it centers around sex, like men wearing bras to appear to have breasts, wearing makeup and wigs and dresses, etc. And very often transgenders experience hatred of their features, their genitalia, etc. hence the demand for sex change operations. Can anyone explain why this should not be regarded as a mental or psychological disorder?

 

[Rau]

…[transgender] Can anyone explain why this should not be regarded as a mental or psychological disorder?

I think most people, if not all, regard persons who suffer dysphoria to be suffering form a medical disorder of some kind. One’s actual sex, and one’s internal perception of one’s own sex generally are in alignment. The debate tends to revolve around what are acceptable treatments.

 

[Viki63]

Ignorance is not an excuse fo be able to make blanket statements about complicated psychosexual diagnosis.

Disagreement with an opinion is not necessarily accompanied by ignorance.
Actually, one of the founding institutions of American medicine, Johns Hopkins, stopped doing sex reassignment surgery when they found it was not helping people.
Here is a relevant article, explaining that gender dysphoria is a mental disorder equivalent to anorexia.

.

 

[drac16]

It’s being crammed down their throats all the time, so it’s natural for catholics to be resisting. The LGBT people don’t want to settle for tolerance; it’s not enough for catholics to have one opinion and them having theirs. No, they want to take people to court and try to intimidate people into blessing their so-called marriages.

Catholics, I feel your pain.

 

[clem456]

I have a question about gay marriage, okay so I don’t see why us Catholics are so obsessed with gay marriage in the U.S.? In my opinion, it doesn’t matter if two males or females marry by law, so aslong as they don’t start marrying within our church. Is my thinking wrong?? I mean them getting married has no effect on us right? Because we don’t see marriage being official until you get married by church right? Any thoughts or opinions? (Please don’t attack me I’m just curious )

This is not a Catholic question. It is a question of common sense.
Is it good for a society to have common sense and uphold the observation of it?

What is common sense?
Common sense would be any conclusion that I can come to by observing a self-evident reality. For instance, it can be commonly sensed and agreed that the sun rises in the morning and sets in the evening, and provides heat and light, right? Any sane person can make this observation in common with any other person, hence “common” sense. To deny it is dishonest.

In the same way:
Human beings exist, right? What is the only way a human being can come to be?
It is a tragic thing that this question must be asked, but it is maybe the most serious question facing us.
What is the only unique way a human being can come into existence?
“through the union of a man and woman”.
To deny this is to defy common sense and is dishonest. The equation of man/woman with any other relationship is a lie.

So what?
Think about the implications. We are talking about human life and to what degree we wish to recognize it, protect it, affirm it.
If the union of a man and woman is the only way you can exist, and you have unique worth in your existence (you do), isn’t that institution worth recognizing, affirming, and protecting?

If I said to you
“that person over there is skin and bones and has a bloated stomach”
using the dishonest logic above you could say “I think he is just like any other human being. I choose to deny what is self-evident”.

You might think this is carrying the case too far, but I would suggest that the unavoidable consequences of a people that lies to themselves about basic human realities will be tragic for everyone.

This is what is so powerful about the Gospel. It asks us “to see, to hear” what God has revealed.

 

[Ph0enix]

An objective viewpoint would probably call it a disorder that is in need of psychological help. The process of going through the illusion “gender reassignment” can indeed be deemed a “whim,” because it is something done without a chance of success. A man can no more become a woman than a dog can become a cat.

Disagreement with an opinion is not necessarily accompanied by ignorance.
Actually, one of the founding institutions of American medicine, Johns Hopkins, stopped doing sex reassignment surgery when they found it was not helping people.
Here is a relevant article, explaining that gender dysphoria is a mental disorder equivalent to anorexia.

.

Gender dysphoria used to be called “gender identity disorder.” But the mismatch between body and internal sense of gender is** not a mental illness.** Instead, what need to be addressed are the stress, anxiety, and depression that go along with it.

comparing dogs becoming cats to transgender-ism is kind of an unfair comparison

(plus we all know that Schrödinger’s Cat is really a dog when we are not looking)

 

[djames99]

I think the best approach to the answer is to back track a bit.

1/The ideal world envisaged by God, is a nation governed by Him through the Authority and principles of the Catholic Church. That means that in the ideal world which we are this very day trying to model, citizens are listening to the dogma of the Catholic Church, and if they are having difficulties, go to her ministers for solutions. The nation would of course be pleased that they do, and distance itself from civil marriage.

2/So a just nation determined to do what God desires, would establish a civil law that directs couples who desire the Sacrament of Matrimony to go to a priest for advice and preparation, who,provided conditions are met, would instruct them to marry in His established temple, the Church. An unjust nation would bypass God’s desires and establish it’s own marriage ceremony to be held within it’s own structures. The sin is twofold; one contributes by steering them away from God’s gift of Holy matrimony, and the other claims diety to itself.

3/We can now establish the cause to the effect. The cause is a nation that has gone astray, accompanied by people who also think they can go it alone without God. The result is a sinning nation in the state of capital sin.

  Joseph A Miller, in his book, "Saul, the first King of Israel" nails the result:

  ".... the conduct of nations is a point to which the eye of God is directed, and that it is the matter for which His just penalty will be reserved. Whole nations come within the compass of His gaze, and within the reach of His rod. By the individuals composing a community, and whose personal welfare or woe is necessarily identified with the condition of the community, there is a great danger that national sin should regarded rather as an abstraction than as reality, rather as an ideal than as a substantial criminality. But it is not thus with God, in the incident before us, deals with it. He affixes it as a substantive charge upon the community."

Couples are to inquire through proper sources what God constitutes has a valid marriage, and what conditions of that marriage serve to glorify Him properly, so that all could say without doubt, "They have truely received the Holy Sacrament of Matrimony". A nation that has an established friendship with God, would know to refer the individuals to the Church, which is the *only* option for every couple.

As to the ceremony itself, it is a cult ritual, and since an appointed minister of God is not presiding, then Satan gleefully fills in for the post.  

But as Catholics, our task is never complete until we do our best to change the hearts of these two. They are our brothers and sisters, who are also Heirs to the Kingdom. It pains us to see them err in this way, and we must do our best so they don't forfeit this inheritance.

 

[marthagreys]

I think part of the reason we should be concerned, which is different than obsessed, it that it absolutely does effect all of us in society. So-called gay rights get imposed on the general population. For example, people who own bakeries are not allowed to refuse to make wedding cakes for gay marriages, and when they do, they get huge huge fines and have to go out of business. So it’s not just a “live and let live” scenario. It goes beyond the confines of two consenting adults doing their own thing and minding their own business. It becomes everybody’s business whether they want it to or not.

 

[JaKael02]

Altering the definition of marriage effects us all.

Laws shape beliefs. Beliefs shape behavior. Behavior affects human interest and well-being.

The redefinition of marriage, in 30 years, will have a full generation of children running around believing marriage is just about emotional interest of adults.