Question about God's Omnipresence and Hell

[curtishouse29]

Since God is omnipresent (present in all places at all times), I was wondering if anybody could reconcile that with the fact that God isn’t present in Hell. It is a question that has been bugging me all night and I’m having a hard time coming up with an answer. Thanks in advance for everybody’s help. God bless.

Curtis

 

[fellowChristian]

IV. Hell

1033
We cannot be united with God unless we freely choose to love him. But we cannot love God if we sin gravely against him, against our neighbor or against ourselves: "He who does not love remains in death. Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him."612 Our Lord warns us that we shall be **separated from him **if we fail to meet the serious needs of the poor and the little ones who are his brethren.613 To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God’s merciful love means remaining **separated from him **for ever by our own free choice. This state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called "hell."

**1034 **
Jesus often speaks of “Gehenna,” of “the unquenchable fire” reserved for those who to the end of their lives refuse to believe and be converted, where both soul and body can be lost.614 Jesus solemnly proclaims that he "will send his angels, and they will gather . . . all evil doers, and throw them into the furnace of fire,"615 and that he will pronounce the condemnation: "Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire!"616

**1035 **
The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, "eternal fire."617 The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.

**1036 **
The affirmations of Sacred Scripture and the teachings of the Church on the subject of hell are a call to the responsibility incumbent upon man to make use of his freedom in view of his eternal destiny. They are at the same time an urgent call to conversion: "Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few."618

Since we know neither the day nor the hour, we should follow the advice of the Lord and watch constantly so that, when the single course of our earthly life is completed, we may merit to enter with him into the marriage feast and be numbered among the blessed, and not, like the wicked and slothful servants, be ordered to depart into the eternal fire, into the outer darkness where "men will weep and gnash their teeth."619

**1037 **
God predestines no one to go to hell; 620 for this, a willful turning away from God (a mortal sin) is necessary, and persistence in it until the end. In the Eucharistic liturgy and in the daily prayers of her faithful, the Church implores the mercy of God, who does not want “any to perish, but all to come to repentance”:621

Father, accept this offering
from your whole family.
Grant us your peace in this life,
save us from final damnation,
and count us among those you have chosen.622

The Catechism of the Catholic Church
ARTICLE 12
"I BELIEVE IN LIFE EVERLASTING"

usccb.org/catechism/text/pt1sect2chpt3art12.shtml

We show God what we want the most by what we give our time the most to. God wants to give us what we want the most. In the end is being with God what we want the most? If not then we will be seperated from Him for all eternity that is what hell is. So no God is not there.

 

[IrishJoe]

We cannot be united with God unless we freely choose to love him. But we cannot love God if we sin gravely against him

why not? Its not love its coercion. Love me or burn.

 

[LilyM]

why not? Its not love its coercion. Love me or burn.

No, it’s more like having an electrical light and refusing to plug it into the electric socket (ie the power source). Of course it’s just not going to work without that power source.

God is our power source. He created us, He is the source of all good. What is left for those who knowingly reject Him and thus refuse all good which comes from the one source? Nothing but despair and misery - in other words Hell.

There’s nothing coercive about being dependent upon a power source to make your light work, and nothing coercive about knowing that you are dependent upon God for spiritual life and every possible good.

 

[mardukm]

Since God is omnipresent (present in all places at all times), I was wondering if anybody could reconcile that with the fact that God isn’t present in Hell. It is a question that has been bugging me all night and I’m having a hard time coming up with an answer. Thanks in advance for everybody’s help. God bless.

Curtis

“Hell” is not really a place, but a state - it is a state of being that is separation from God.

God’s omnipresence has nothing to do with the existence of hell.

I’m not sure how a Latin Christian would explain it, but I can explain it to you as an Oriental Christian. Oriental Christians believe in a concept called the Energies and Essence of God. No created being can actually touch or experience the Essence of God. What created beings experience is actually what Oriental (and Eastern) Christians call the Energies of God. This is the Source of all spiritual benefits from the Divine.

Hell would be that state of being whereby one does not or cannot experience the Energies of God.

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[theMutant]

I once heard Hell described as the way those who hate God experience his love. The idea in this description was based on your own question and also on the observation of what it’s like when you receive attention from someone you do not like. For example, a boy gets infatuated with a girl, but the girl does not like him. Because she does not like him, she is not pleased by his admiration - she dislikes it. God’s love is “an all consuming flame.” However, if you reject that love, you will hate the experience of it. The greater the love, the more painful and intense the experience will be.

 

[Devare]

Since God is omnipresent (present in all places at all times), I was wondering if anybody could reconcile that with the fact that God isn’t present in Hell. It is a question that has been bugging me all night and I’m having a hard time coming up with an answer. Thanks in advance for everybody’s help. God bless.

Curtis

God’s presence IS with those who are in hell, King David writes:

Psalm 139:8 If I ascend into heaven, thou art there: if I descend into hell, thou art present. (DRB)

So yes, God is omnipresent and omnipotent at ALL times.

Those who are in hell still have a [slim] chance out of it (the gates of heaven shall always be open), but, they will have utter hatred against God. I wouldn’t want to take my chances though! I’ll take heaven

 

[theMutant]

why not? Its not love its coercion. Love me or burn.

The separation from God is willed by the person separated, not by God. Even when scriptures describe God as sending them away, it is not based on His desire, but on their own choice. They are unrepentent.

In this life, it is easy because we typically do not have any discernable experience of His infinite love for us. In the next life, we cannot escape that love. The revelations of Hell are not threats, they are cautionary warnings. They are given in extreme terms because the consequences of ignoring them are eternal.

If I choose to ignore all that I have been taught and shown about gravity and the consequences of falling, but I ignore all of that, I cannot blame those who gave the warnings for the injuries or death I experience if I choose to jump off a cliff. I cannot say, “God is not really loving because, if he was, I would not have to suffer the consequences of my own decisions.”

 

[theMutant]

“Hell” is not really a place, but a state - it is a state of being that is separation from God.

However, the fires of Hell are a REAL part of that state. Also, Hell may only be a reality in the spiritual realm at present, since all who have died (except for Mary and Elija) do not have physical bodies, but the fires will certainly be physical - and cause physical pain - after the resurrection. This is dogma.

 

[PJM]

=curtishouse29;4895566]Since God is omnipresent (present in all places at all times), I was wondering if anybody could reconcile that with the fact that God isn’t present in Hell. It is a question that has been bugging me all night and I’m having a hard time coming up with an answer. Thanks in advance for everybody’s help. God bless.

Curtis

Dear Brother in Christ,

A wonderful and thoughtful post.:tiphat:

It has to do with understanding who and what God is.

Briefly, God is All Everything GOOD, and nothing that is evil."

One of the attributes of God’s Goodness is God is and has to be, “All Fair and All JUST!”

Because we were Created ’
“in the image and likeness of God Himself” (Genesis Chapter 1),
and God is “SPIRIT” (not MATTER), humanity is blessed with intellect, mind, reason, understanding, freewill and of course the Soul, which annimates, gives life to our being. All of these are traits of humanity, and exclusive to a very great degree, in us.These are humanites spiritual traits.

With privledege comes responsibility!

One aspect of God’s Justice, is the existence of Hell, as a fitting and just place for those who reject God and His grace.

It is we, you and me, who decide where we will spend eternity. NOT GOD!

God sent His Only Son “to Redeem us,” but “Redemption” and “Salvation” are very different terms, and are not synomous!

Each of us is assured that we will be OFFERED sufficient Graces inorder for us to cooperate with God’s plan for our individual salvations. Those who accept and correctly apply these graces get to heaven, and those who reject God, send, condem themselves to Eternal Hell!

The specific answer to your question is: The lack of God’s Divine Presence in hell, is the very source of the greatest suffering of the condemed souls.

It is atlast (too late), recogonizing who and what God is, seeing the missed opportunities one was given for the necessary personal relationship with God, while alive, and ones own personal decisions, that in Divine Justice, makes us in a sense, judges of our own failings, that haunt lost souls for eternity. Not being in the Divine Presence of God is the ultimate Loss, the greatest suffering, and the reason to despair!

Love and prayers my friend,

 

[mardukm]

However, the fires of Hell are a REAL part of that state. Also, Hell may only be a reality in the spiritual realm at present, since all who have died (except for Mary and Elija) do not have physical bodies, but the fires will certainly be physical - and cause physical pain - after the resurrection. This is dogma.

I didn’t think we were talking about the conditions of Hell, but he concept of Hell itself. Yes, fire is an element of Hell, but it is the separation from the Grace of God that makes it Hell, not the fire itself, for even fire is used by God for cleansing and purification.

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[VociMike]

why not? Its not love its coercion. Love me or burn.

That’s just a comfortable platitude to justify what you believe anyway. It certainly isn’t any kind of even the most basic understanding of Catholic teaching.

 

[Devare]

That’s just a comfortable platitude to justify what you believe anyway. It certainly isn’t any kind of even the most basic understanding of Catholic teaching.

Well there have been many debates about it (sometimes our personal views tend to slip in over Bible/Church’s teachings).

I believe hell is literal and with fire, and I have science on my side for this one. Many verses talk about descending into earth (i.e. Christ descended into the BOWELS of the EARTH when he went into hell). If anyone took care to notice, you’ll see inside the earth it’s full of FIRE and LAVA. Interesting to say at the least.

I believe hell is [temporarily] inside of the earth, and shall be moved after Christ comes and the world is destroyed. Although this is my own personal view

 

[Eucharisted]

Since God is omnipresent (present in all places at all times), I was wondering if anybody could reconcile that with the fact that God isn’t present in Hell. It is a question that has been bugging me all night and I’m having a hard time coming up with an answer. Thanks in advance for everybody’s help. God bless.

Curtis

Hell is eternal separation from God. How can God be where He is not? It is only by the Mercy of God that the devils and damned still exist, but God is not there with them. They wish to cease existing, but God, who created spirits immortal, will not allow spirits to die, in His Mercy, for He will not take away the good gift of existence from a creature. Furthermore, His Justice will not allow them to cease existing, for what a creature sows, a creature reaps. Since the devils and damned have chosen to reject God, who is Mercy and who is Happiness, they have forever chosen to exist in eternal torment and misery. God created us for Mercy and Happiness, but those who wish to be damned shall be. Why someone would wish to reject eternal absolute happiness and infinite mercy, I don’t know, but we can pray for the conversion of sinners, who know not what they do.