Question about God's will

[St_Francis]

Sometimes I don’t really understand how we are to think about God’s will… It is against God’s will for us to sin, but if someone sins against us, we are supposed to accept it as God’s will—but while we can totally use the pain caused by someone’s sinning against us for good, by offering up the pain and trouble, it still isn’t God’s will that someone sin.

Anyway, let me ask this question:

Amy would really love to work at Company X: that is her total dream job. Finally she gets an interview there at 9 am. The morning of the interview, she oversleeps, and thus destroys her chance of working there.

So, was it not God’s will that she work there? Or what?

Thanks for any help you can give!

 

[mikekle]

That is an interesting question, it also reminds me of the rule that says we cannot do evil, even if good comes from it in the end…if we are not to take advantage of some good coming from an evil act, why would God?

 

[fide]

Sometimes I don’t really understand how we are to think about God’s will… It is against God’s will for us to sin, but if someone sins against us, we are supposed to accept it as God’s will—but while we can totally use the pain caused by someone’s sinning against us for good, by offering up the pain and trouble, it still isn’t God’s will that someone sin.

Anyway, let me ask this question:

Amy would really love to work at Company X: that is her total dream job. Finally she gets an interview there at 9 am. The morning of the interview, she oversleeps, and thus destroys her chance of working there.

So, was it not God’s will that she work there? Or what?

Thanks for any help you can give!

Maybe the more helpful way to look at the question is:
Romans 8:28 We know that in everything God works for good with those who love him, who are called according to his purpose.
God wills only good; He permits both good and evil, for now. He works all to His purpose: good.

 

[coachdennis]

Sometimes I don’t really understand how we are to think about God’s will… It is against God’s will for us to sin, but if someone sins against us, we are supposed to accept it as God’s will—but while we can totally use the pain caused by someone’s sinning against us for good, by offering up the pain and trouble, it still isn’t God’s will that someone sin.

Anyway, let me ask this question:

Amy would really love to work at Company X: that is her total dream job. Finally she gets an interview there at 9 am. The morning of the interview, she oversleeps, and thus destroys her chance of working there.

So, was it not God’s will that she work there? Or what?

Thanks for any help you can give!

It’s HER dream job according to your scenario. That does not mean that it is where God wants her. She might have seen all these advantages to working there, but maybe it was not what she needed.

Going with this scenario one could ask if she did get the job but found it was not the dream job she imagined, was this part of God’s plan? Could be?

Also, since this is hypothetical we could examine the question why did she oversleep? Did she forget to set her alarm clock or other reason that was out of her control liken a power outage?

My point of view is that only the person involved can make the ultimate decision about being God’s will in their life. This is where developing a consistent prayer life and spiritual direction can be invaluable.

I would like to add my litmus test when “life happens” – does this event, scenario, etc bring me closer to God or not?

I hope this helps.

 

[Petaro]

Sometimes I don’t really understand how we are to think about God’s will… It is against God’s will for us to sin, but if someone sins against us, we are supposed to accept it as God’s will—but while we can totally use the pain caused by someone’s sinning against us for good, by offering up the pain and trouble, it still isn’t God’s will that someone sin.

Anyway, let me ask this question:

Amy would really love to work at Company X: that is her total dream job. Finally she gets an interview there at 9 am. The morning of the interview, she oversleeps, and thus destroys her chance of working there.

So, was it not God’s will that she work there? Or what?

Thanks for any help you can give!

I don’t think we need to accept other people’s sins as God’s will. That just doesn’t make sense.
As for poor Amy, she needs time management skills in any dream job. She has traits that need correcting. Overcoming poor planning; setting priorities; and taking responsibility for her own actions are a start. God is not responsible for every stupid thing we do. If He were, how could we claim responsibility for the few smart ideas. No, Amy has a long way to go. Perhaps she overslept because she spent too much time dreaming.
We are not chess pieces on a board that are moved around by God’s will.

 

[Richca]

Sometimes I don’t really understand how we are to think about God’s will… It is against God’s will for us to sin, but if someone sins against us, we are supposed to accept it as God’s will—but while we can totally use the pain caused by someone’s sinning against us for good, by offering up the pain and trouble, it still isn’t God’s will that someone sin.

Yes, God does not will that we should sin. However, the act of sin depends on God’s will which is called God’s will of permission. Without God’s will and power, we can neither do good or evil. Accordingly, St Augustine says “Nothing is done, unless the Almighty wills it to be done, either by permitting it, or by actually doing it.” Whatever takes place in the universe falls under the order of God’s universal providence without which nothing can take place even sins. God permits sins because He created us with free will and He draws good out of sins either for the person sinning to help them grow in humility and to rely more on God or for the person or persons who may be injured by another person’s sins to help them grow in virtue such as patience and to make satisfaction in some manner for their own sins as well as to follow in the footsteps of Christ and his cross. The suffering we may endure as a result of the sins of our neighbor has a redemptive value and the life of Jesus Christ especially his passion, suffering, and death is our example of this. Our neighbor cannot do us any harm unless God wills to permit this to happen and God does not will or permit anything to happen except for some good end in view and our own salvation as well as the salvation of others.

 

[St_Francis]

That is an interesting question, it also reminds me of the rule that says we cannot do evil, even if good comes from it in the end…if we are not to take advantage of some good coming from an evil act, why would God?

It is true that we are not to commit evil so that a good may come about, but I think it is wrong to say to make a blanket statement that we cannot take advantage of “a good thing coming from that act.” Even if we’re talking about murder, if someone kills my rich uncle and I inherit, are you saying I shouldn’t take the money? Or that the money is tainted so I can’t give any to charity?

So God can "draw good out of evil, as Fide Points out from the Bible, while not doing anything wrong, which He would never do!

 

[Lily_Bernans]

Sometimes I don’t really understand how we are to think about God’s will… It is against God’s will for us to sin, but if someone sins against us, we are supposed to accept it as God’s will—but while we can totally use the pain caused by someone’s sinning against us for good, by offering up the pain and trouble, it still isn’t God’s will that someone sin.

Anyway, let me ask this question:

Amy would really love to work at Company X: that is her total dream job. Finally she gets an interview there at 9 am. The morning of the interview, she oversleeps, and thus destroys her chance of working there.

So, was it not God’s will that she work there? Or what?

Thanks for any help you can give!

I did not read every post, so I apologize if I’m repeating something.

God doesn’t want us to sin; he wants us to come to him in love, but he has given us freedom, so we can turn away from him if we wish.

It is not God’s will that others sin against us. That would make God sad, if God could be sad. People sin against us because our nature, our full humanity, has been wounded by original sin.

God always chooses what is best for us with regard to our ultimate end, the Beatific Vision. Amy’s dream job was Amy’s dream. It might not have been best for her development as a human being and a child of God. And, if Amy overslept, that is Amy’s fault, not God’s.

My dream is to win hundreds of millions in the lottery so I can donate big bucks to charities and stop worrying about money myself, but evidently it isn’t God’s plan for my life.

 

[St_Francis]

I don’t think we need to accept other people’s sins as God’s will. That just doesn’t make sense.
As for poor Amy, she needs time management skills in any dream job. She has traits that need correcting. Overcoming poor planning; setting priorities; and taking responsibility for her own actions are a start.

I was thinking of a situation in which Amy had no control (see post below).

God is not responsible for every stupid thing we do. If He were, how could we claim responsibility for the few smart ideas.

Oh, I totally give God credit for the good I do. Without Him, I’d be much worse!

No, Amy has a long way to go. Perhaps she overslept because she spent too much time dreaming.

We are not chess pieces on a board that are moved around by God’s will.

No, we aren’t, but it seems we are not in control of what happens around us, either.

 

[Lily_Bernans]

I was thinking of a situation in which Amy had no control (see post below).

Oh, I totally give God credit for the good I do. Without Him, I’d be much worse!



No, we aren’t, but it seems we are not in control of what happens around us, either.

We are totally in control of our reaction to what happens to us.

 

[St_Francis]

How I started wondering about this: seems like when something bad happens, one is advised to accept it as God’s will, so I did that, but one day I had to confess a “white lie” told to avoid hurting someone’s feelings, and the priest told me that God had wanted me to tell the truth, and maybe God wanted the other person to hear that truth for some reason, and that made me start thinking about the issue from the other side, not just as a passive recipient of bad things and sins.*

It’s HER dream job according to your scenario.

Exactly! Maybe it was not what God wanted for her, and so she overslept and didn’t get it.

OTOH, maybe God did want her to have that job, and she messed up what God wanted for her?

That does not mean that it is where God wants her. *She might have seen all these advantages to working there, but maybe it was not what she needed.

I can definitely see this. What worries me is the pOssibility that God might have wanted her to have the job.*

Do you think that if He had really wanted her in that position that He would have gotten her there?

Could it be that we won’t actually always know God’s plan, except for the part where we know it is not God’s will for us to sin?*

Also, since this is hypothetical we could examine the question why did she oversleep? *Did she forget to set her alarm clock or other reason that was out of her control liken a power outage? *

That is tricky. I was thinking along the lines of something that she could possibly have done something about but it was not unreasonable that she didn’t, for example, she had recently replaced the auxiliary battery in her alarm clock, but the battery was bad so it didn’t work when the power went out on a night it wouldn’t be expected to go out.*

My point of view is that only the person involved can make the ultimate decision about being God’s will in their life.

about God’s will in their life? About being in God’s will?*

*This is where developing a consistent prayer life and spiritual direction can be invaluable.

Right, and maybe sometimes God wants us to be “in the dark” about what will happen and that, too, is God’s will for us at that time.*

I would like to add my litmus test when “life happens” – does this event, scenario, etc bring me closer to God or not?

Wouldn’t “something bringing one closer to God or not” depend on how the person reacted? ISTM that the same thing could happen to two people and the one gets angry and turns his back on God and the other one offer it up and prays more? So I am not sure how this works as a litmus test.*

I hope this helps.

Yes, it does

 

[St_Francis]

We are totally in control of our reaction to what happens to us.

And that is the important part, right?

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

I do not believe in coincidences
If you are trying to follow His will (Mass, trying to live as a faithful Catholic), He protects and helps you-it’s what He does. And who He is.

 

[Lily_Bernans]

And that is the important part, right?

Yes, it is, and to follow the moral law, configuring our lives to Christ day by day.

 

[Lily_Bernans]

I do not believe in coincidences
If you are trying to follow His will (Mass, trying to live as a faithful Catholic), He protects and helps you-it’s what He does. And who He is.

I believe in coincidence, but following the moral law and configuring ourselves to Christ infuses us with his grace.

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

I believe in coincidence, but following the moral law and configuring ourselves to Christ infuses us with his grace.

And I respect your belief.
Although
An omnipotent Creator would have no problem “juggling things” to make “coincidences” happen.

 

[Lily_Bernans]

And I respect your belief.
Although
An omnipotent Creator would have no problem “juggling things” to make “coincidences” happen.

True.

 

[lilpoppie]

Is it God’s will that i troll your board? Maybe…