Question about images.

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Katholikos:
Here are only a few examples:

Ex 25:18 RSV - “Make two cherubim of beaten gold. . .”

Num 21:8 RSV - “Make a fiery serpent and set it on a pole, and everyone who is bitten, when he sees it, shall live. So Moses made a bronze serpent and set it on a pole . . .”

Heb 9:5 RSV - [In the NT as well, images of angels were said to have adorned the temple.] “…above it were the cherubim of glory overshadowing the mercy seat . . .”

John 3:14-15 RSV - “And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of man be lifted up . . .”

Did God forbid the making of art? Or the worship of it? Clearly, it’s the worship of anything other than Himself that is an abomination.
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I was going to say those points, now I didn’t have to. Thanks for saving me the time. Excellent response. 👍
 
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homer:
In fact a lot of people do worship images when they sit in front of them and they touch them hoping they will be blessed, it’s a fact!
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The bronzed serpant healed people, but the were not worshiping it. When we pray in front of a statue, we are not prayer to the statue or worship it. At least I don’t. It just helps me to focus, and just like I carry pictures of my family, and display them on the wall. When I look at these pictures it helps me remember them when they were that age. I in know way worship them. It is the same with statues.
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homer:
Holy Bible doesn’t mention anything about the use of images.
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Again what about the serpant. It is only when we start worshing them instead of God that it becomes evil.
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homer:
The last point is not quite related to the question but i must comment on something. I noticed that a lot of people say that Jesus founded the catholic church
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He did.
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homer:
that it is the only true church because Jesus said that he will always be with us and never leave us. Well can you really believe that Jesus Son of God would really differentiate between Catholic and non catholic.
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Yes I can believe this. The CC is the oldest church and it was the leaders of this church that were given the Authority to forgive sins and to bind and not bind
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homer:
The Church is the group of believers that follow the word of God that is present in the Holy Bible and not an authority given by a human being.
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The authority was given to humans( the apostles) In fact Jesus breathed on the apostles, the only other time this happened was in Genisis.
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homer:
So if i am rejected by the catholic church then what? Every authority given by a human being is false.
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Why would you be rejected by the Church? You could reject the church yourself, but not the other way around. And Jesus said he was building the church on Peter and that that church hell would not prevail against it.
 
God commanded the making of images to adorn the ark of the covenat, he also had a serpent made to heal the israelites from snake bites. The Jewish temple has images…

HIstorical context is vital,In those times the images either represnted or were themselves deities, other Gods adn were worhoped as such, thus the command to not make them…To avoid the confution of worship…

When Jesus came he became an Image so to speack, an image of God the Father…We now have images but regonize they are not Gods and thus do not worship them…
 
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apdias21:
Dear, Home, Would you spit on a picture of Jesus? Would you break a statue of Jesus? If so, ask the Mormons, who think like you, to destroy the statue of Jesus inside their temples. If was not the Catholic Church,the world would be dank and barren, without any kind of art, music, pictures, sculptures etc, like the Protestant Churches.
Antonio
Campinas, Brazil
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I have seen Catholic Churches without any statues, not even stain glassed windows. They didn’t even have a crucifix in front, they only had a cross. We don’t go to that church anymore because my five yr old couldn’t handle having only a cross. Plus the fact that the parish was a very liberal one, and my husband and I couldn’t handle that! 😃 On the other hand the Presbyterian church we came from was very pretty, no statues, but gorgeous stained glass windows and such. But indeed bluh compared to the parish we go to now. Not all protestan churches are bleek, dank and barren.
 
Homer,

Here are two bits of Scripture

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, (EX 20:4)

"Make two cherubim of beaten gold"( EX 25:18)

There are 3 options as I see it.
  1. God commanded the Jews to sin when He told them to make images of heavenly creatures.
  2. God is schizophrenic.
  3. Making of images of heavenly creatures is a Godly thing, as long as no worship is offered to them.
Which one of the above to you hold to?
 
“I will bow down toward your holy temple…” (Psalm 138:2).

What was in the Temple?

“In the inner sanctuary…two cherubim of olivewood, each ten cubits high. . .” (1 Kings 6:23).
 
No images? Photographs are just another form of graven images. All those people going to see “The Passion of the Christ”—breaking the commandment? No images? OK, let’s get rid of movies, television, photo albums, and billboards, for starters. Quit carrying around those little photos of your family, (which you treat so reverently), in your wallet or purse. Especially, no paintings of Jesus weeping, or smiling, no angel pins, no nature books (they might have images of things under the sea.) No children’s books with pictures. And those two cherubim in Exodus 25:18, that was a definite no-no!

JimG
 
JimG with all my respect you make no sens at all! Do you see me praying for my television and my photo albums and touching them to get blessings ?! You are way shifting away from the core of this question.
 
Homer, Protestant churchs often place a manger scene on the church lawn during Christmas. Here, a figurine is used to represent the baby Jesus, as well as Mary and Joseph. Is this a graven image? It is not. It serves the same purpose as the more permanent statues in the Catholic Church.
 
I forgot to mention, Homer . . . I would also be interested in your response to Brendan’s posts. How do you reconcile Ex 20:4 and Es 25:18?
 
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homer:
I want to ask a question and i would like to get a good answer since i am very confused. How the Catholic Church allows the creation of pictures and stones of saints since it is not allowed by God as it shows in the Holy Bible? I don’t want to start a debate, i just want an explanation since the Word is so clear in the Holy Bible and since a lot of miracles approved by the Catholic Church are done threw images.
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I think this is a very good question. I submit to you several questions…

“How did you feel about the movie The Passion of the Christ?”

“Was movie The Passion of the Christ a work of Art?”

“Did movie The Passion of the Christ invoke an earnest desire in you to serve God in a greater way?”

“Has movie The Passion of the Christ created greater opportunities to Witness the Truth of the Gospel?”

“In what ways does the great artwork of statuary and painting whose subjects are our brothers and sisters in Christ that have fought the good fight compare/contrast to movie The Passion of the Christ?”

Just Curious,
 
The stone is a stone, it is matter, dead matter. You are using stones and dead matter to remind you of the existence of allmighty God. Well i can’t accept this in any sort of way since God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. (John 4:24).
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The Bible is paper (and it used to be stone). It is matter, dead matter. Is it idolatry to use the Bible in worship? Is it a sign of weak faith that one uses the Bible to remind him of the presence of God? Obviously not, because the faith of the person perceives the spirit and truth beyond the mere material object. The Bible is a clear example of someone worshipping in spirit and truth using a material object.
 
Homer,

Check out post #27.

I’m still waiting to hear your answer
 
It seems like Homer is convinced that when Catholics kneel in front of a statue they are “worshipping” it. This is a common misconception. I can use an analogy and hope you can see the similarities. Would you consider it worshiping a manger scene if at Christmas time as you put one out on your table you reflected on the infant Jesus while you prayed? The statues of the manger scene serve as a reminder of the birth of Jesus. They are in themselves inanimate objects. However, a cross is an inanimate object as well, but still seems to stir emotions because of what that cross represents. If you pray in front of a cross are you worshiping the cross or the Lord?
 
Back in the old days, when most people could not read, stained glass windows and other forms of art were used to illustrate biblical stories and religious truths. Was that wrong? Learning from pictures?
 
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Brendan:
Homer,

Here are two bits of Scripture

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, (EX 20:4)

"Make two cherubim of beaten gold"( EX 25:18)

Brendan makes THE point, as well as the earlier post regarding the bronze serpent. These all took place after the Commandments were given to the Jewish people; and the Jewish people kneel before, pray in front of, touch and revere these objects. Homer, you need to answer, is God schizophrenic???
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