Question about intercession of the saints

[greenrangerx]

My roommate asked me a question that I wasn’t sure how to answer and it has me curious now. How can the saints hear our prayers since they aren’t omniscient or omnipresent? Even if one were able to hear my prayer, they wouldn’t be able to hear the prayer of someone else at the same time. I’m just really unsure about the whole thing. Any Scriptural passages would be very helpful.

 

[Vico]

My roommate asked me a question that I wasn’t sure how to answer and it has me curious now. How can the saints hear our prayers since they aren’t omniscient or omnipresent? Even if one were able to hear my prayer, they wouldn’t be able to hear the prayer of someone else at the same time. I’m just really unsure about the whole thing. Any Scriptural passages would be very helpful.

Departed saints are not limited to space-time restrictions like us. Also see: Revelation 5 where the prayers of the holy ones on Earth are offered to God by the saints in heaven.

8 When he took it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each of the elders held a harp and gold bowls filled with incense, which are the prayers of the holy ones.

Haydock commentary:

Ver. 7-8. He…took the book,[3]…and when he had opened it, or was about to open it, (in the Greek is only, he took it: which was a sign that he would open it)…the four and twenty ancients fell down before the Lamb, to adore him, as appears by what follows, ver. 13.
— Having every one of them harps to celebrate his praise, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of the saints: which shews that the saints in heaven offer up before the throne of the Divine Majesty the prayers of the faithful. (Witham)
— Harps, &c. These harps are symbols of the praise which good men render to God; and the vials full of odours represent the prayers of the saints. In conformity with this idea, St. John wishes to represent these four and twenty ancients as so many senators, who present to the Almighty the prayers and homages of good men on earth. (Estius; Clement of Alexandria)
— This also is an imitation of what was practised in the temple, in which were always around the altar, in times of sacrifice, Levites with musical instruments, priests with vials to contain the wine and blood, and censers to hold the incense (Calmet)
— The prayers of the saints. Here we see that the saints in heaven offer up to Christ the prayers of the faithful upon earth. (Challoner)

 

[Arkansan]

By the natural power of the intellect, it is only possible to think about one thing at a time, even though many things are known. However, once the intellect has been supernaturally enlightened by the Beatific Vision, then it will be able to understand all that it knows by a single act. Thus a saint in heaven can hear the prayers of many people at once.

“our thoughts will not be fleeting, going and returning from one thing to another, but we shall survey all our knowledge at the same time by one glance,” St. Augustine (De Trin. xv, 16)

 

[RedFan]

I don’t think Scripture provides a firm answer here. That the saints pray is mentioned in Rev. 5:8 and Rev. 8:4. That they can hear our prayers is not directly mentioned anywhere in Scripture I am aware of (although Psalm 103:20-21 is itself a prayer of sorts to the angels and saints – and if your confirmation bias is strong enough you can always draw an inference from that).

The parable of the rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16:19-31 suggests that Abraham in heaven heard the prayer of someone in hell – so you might be tempted to infer that if Abraham could have heard a prayer offered from hell, he could have heard one from earth as easily. But again, it’s a parable . . . and it at most suggests that some First Century Jews entertained a belief in the possibility of heaven-to-hell and hell-to heaven communication among those who had passed.

 

[Arkansan]

An argument from the parable of the rich man and Lazarus doesn’t work, since Abraham would have then been in the limbo of the fathers, not in heaven, and thus certainly unable to hear the prayers of those on Earth (which is why the Jews did not ask for the prayers of the saints).

I think the best argument for it is the constant practice of the Church from the earliest times, which was novel by both Jewish and pagan standards.

 

[Francis]

Hi @greenrangerx

Tobit 12:12-15 So now when you and Sarah prayed, it was I who brought and read[a] the record of your prayer before the glory of the Lord, and likewise whenever you would bury the dead. 13 And that time when you did not hesitate to get up and leave your dinner to go and bury the dead, 14 I was sent to you to test you. And at the same time God sent me to heal you and Sarah your daughter-in-law. 15 I am Raphael, one of the seven angels who stand ready and enter before the glory of the Lord.”

Ephesians 3:14-21 For this reason I bow my knees before the Father, 15 from whom every family in heaven and on earth takes its name. 16 I pray that, according to the riches of his glory, he may grant that you may be strengthened in your inner being with power through his Spirit, 17 and that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith, as you are being rooted and grounded in love. 18 I pray that you may have the power to comprehend, with all the saints, what is the breadth and length and height and depth, 19 and to know the love of Christ that surpasses knowledge, so that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.

20 Now to him who by the power at work within us is able to accomplish abundantly far more than all we can ask or imagine, 21 to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus to all generations, forever and ever. Amen.

 

[Cathoholic]

greenrangerx:

My roommate asked me a question that I wasn’t sure how to answer and it has me curious now. How can the saints hear our prayers since they aren’t omniscient or omnipresent?

The only answer I can think of is what Tim Staples has said.

God INFORMS them.

That’s WHY . . . .ALL HEAVEN rejoices over the conversion of a sinner.

Since only God can read hearts, yet all Heaven is rejoicing in this case, then it’s obvious God informed them.

The same principle can be applied to your questioning AND considering that the Saints are out of the realm of time and space as we know it, it is much more easily understood.

Therefore the Communion of Saints don’t need to be omniscient or omnipresent to have such information.

Hope that helps.

God bless.

Cathoholic

LUKE 15:7, 10 7 Just so, I tell you, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance. . . . 10 Just so, I tell you, there is joy before the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”

 

[spiderweb]

The Catholic Church has no doctrinal explanation of exactly “How” saints hear our prayers. Regardless of how it works, it only works because they are “in Christ”.

Even on earth, a person can pray for a “special intention” of another person without knowing what that special intention is. God knows what that intention is. The saints could also simply offer prayers for “all those asking for my prayers”. They don’t actually need to hear or know what we are asking for.

God could also give them the ability to know and hear all prayer requests, it certainly is within his power to do so.

It could work some other way as well, but they certainly do not need to be omniscient or omnipresent to intercede to God on our behalf.