question about Islam and knowing God

[trdchubi]

There are just so many verses in the Qur’an which touches on fear and hope.

We must recognize God’s presence within us and with us. Our hearts will remain restless until they rest in God and as the Qur’an says **“for sure it is in the remembrance of God that the heart finds rest” **(13:28) and according to the saying of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), there is polish for every rust and the polish for the rust of the heart is the remembrance of God.

Okay I’m not even talking of Hope and Fear here. I’m just asking for verses of LOVE from your allah in the quran.

Again, can you post any verse that supports bin al-quayyim claims - Love that carries a positive meaning in islam and its people?

 

[hamba2han]

Okay I’m not even talking of Hope and Fear here. I’m just asking for verses of LOVE from your allah in the quran.

Again, can you post any verse that supports bin al-quayyim claims - Love that carries a positive meaning in islam and its people?

Ibn al-Qayyim said those words with regard to the feelings of love, fear and hope that lie in one’s heart and how they need to be balanced in relation to each other.

I do not think that he was talking about love alone.

Anyhow, if you wish to see verses of the Qur’an which touches on love, then perhaps this web page might interest you.

 

[trdchubi]

Master-Servant relation.

Then I think Sam was right. Your allah will only relate to mankind as its master, making people nothing more than a crowd of slaves.

“Say: O My slaves who have been prodigal to their own hurt! Despair not of the mercy of allah, who forgives all sins. Lo! he is the forgiving, the merciful…” (quran 39:53-58)

Yeah right.:dts:

This islamic verse is easily refuted by all means from the verse of John 15:15. It says "I NO longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends…****" Now that is one significant statement of Love through an act of selflessness of the True Living God of the Bible.

Can allah top that?

 

[hamba2han]

Christians need to honestly ask themselves why they find it so repugnant to be a slave to their Creator and Sustainer.

If the answer has (and I very much suspect that it does) something to do with pride, then their refusal to consider themselves to be slaves of the Lord surely cannot be a good thing.

 

[trdchubi]

Christians need to honestly ask themselves why they find it so repugnant to be a slave to their Creator and Sustainer.

If the answer has (and I very much suspect that it does) something to do with pride, then their refusal to consider themselves to be slaves of the Lord surely cannot be a good thing.

God raise us up from puny slaves to be his own precious children. This promoted status is a privilege that is free to those who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. It is not even egoistic. We are claiming what God has freely given us — to be one in His family.

Would you like to be inside the family circle or outside? Your choice its your free will.

 

[dzheremi]

Nobody has said that it is “repugnant” to be slaves of God, hamba2han. That is certainly not part of our outlook. Some people have rejected this characterization as the defining feature or best way to express the relationship we have to God in Christianity, but that is their right. I would say that they are right not to focus on that aspect exclusively, as the neither the Bible nor our Tradition do so. Here, hamba2han. Here is something to both please and infuriate you: Coptic monks in prayer

Elwill: I’m not sure what more I can say to explain the difference between the Islamic view and ours. I believe I can understand where you are coming from so far, and actually I will say one positive thing about it: I think you are right about the lack of balance in some forms of Christianity, but I do not believe this criticism applies to apostolic Christianity of the Orthodox and Catholic type, because these are much more well-informed by centuries of pre- and post-New Testament writings, and so preserve a more “full” sense of this relationship with God. While I have met many, many Protestants who I feel are woefully unbalanced in their view (either saying as some universalist types do that we need not fear God because we will all be saved, or saying as some fundamentalist zealots say that no one will be saved but THEIR particular sect), I have not met any Christians of the apostolic Churches who believe like this. Maybe they do exist, but if they do it is against the weight of their own faith’s tradition of balanced views.

 

[elwill]

Elwill: I’m not sure what more I can say to explain the difference between the Islamic view and ours. I believe I can understand where you are coming from so far, and actually I will say one positive thing about it: I think you are right about the lack of balance in some forms of Christianity, but I do not believe this criticism applies to apostolic Christianity of the Orthodox and Catholic type, because these are much more well-informed by centuries of pre- and post-New Testament writings, and so preserve a more “full” sense of this relationship with God. While I have met many, many Protestants who I feel are woefully unbalanced in their view (either saying as some universalist types do that we need not fear God because we will all be saved, or saying as some fundamentalist zealots say that no one will be saved but THEIR particular sect), I have not met any Christians of the apostolic Churches who believe like this. Maybe they do exist, but if they do it is against the weight of their own faith’s tradition of balanced views.

i’m not sure where we differs . i think that you agree with me that the balance between love God and fear God is the best relation and for best conduct

our scholars of islam saying that if we found muslims have more fear from God than hope and love ,then we have to remind them with his mircifull and his love
in the contrary , if we found muslims have no fear from God , and feel they are far from punsihment or not subjected to it , then we have to remind them with his punishments and his anger

God said in quran to mohammed(pbuh)
15-49 Declare (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه و سلم) unto My slaves, that truly, I am the Oft-Forgiving, the Most-Merciful.
15-50 And that My Torment is indeed the most painful torment.

 

[Monica4316]

actually , we balanced between fear and love

I see… imo, I believe that God is love and mercy, so we don’t have anything to be afraid of, the only things we should fear is offending Him but not God Himself. We should ‘fear’ Him in terms of understanding His holiness, but that doesn’t feel like fear, more like reverence/respect/awe.

i think that’s why it seems always that muslims are more devout to their relegion than christians to theirs

not true at all

Christians need to honestly ask themselves why they find it so repugnant to be a slave to their Creator and Sustainer.

I dont find this repugnant; I consider myself a slave of Christ. But that’s not the only thing. I also believe God is my Savior, my Friend, - many other things… our relationship with God isn’t defined by just one description… maybe that’s why there are people here disagreeing with your post

If the answer has (and I very much suspect that it does) something to do with pride, then their refusal to consider themselves to be slaves of the Lord surely cannot be a good thing.

I think it’s more that since God loves us unconditionally, and we are His children and friends, (as well as His servants) - we can trust Him totally without any worry. He is trustworthy. God isn’t angry with us…He never WANTS to punish anyone. He wants to show people mercy, it is they who reject it.

God bless

 

[elwill]

I see… imo, I believe that God is love and mercy, so we don’t have anything to be afraid of, the only things we should fear is offending Him but not God Himself. We should ‘fear’ Him in terms of understanding His holiness, but that doesn’t feel like fear, more like reverence/respect/awe.

Jesus says, “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!” Mathew: 7:21-23

are you not fear to be one of them for example , they were christians and they used to use his name , yet they will not enter the kingdom of heaven

what is your thoughts about this verse ?

 

[Monica4316]

Jesus says, “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!” Mathew: 7:21-23

are you not fear to be one of them for example , they were christians and they used to use his name , yet they will not enter the kingdom of heaven

what is your thoughts about this verse ?

I think that our love for God is the basis of our service to Him. If we love Him sincerely, and try to do His will, this is what He is looking for. He doesn’t just want our actions, but our hearts as well.

We don’t measure our good works by how significant or important they are, but by the love with which we do them. As Jesus is saying in Matthew 7, there will be Christians who do extraordinary things like prophesy and cast out demons and perform miracles, but they have missed simply doing His will in their life…all their actions were in the end, only for themselves, and they did not seek what* God *wants from them.

We should be discerning of what God’s will is. In another passage, Christ says that we must show compassion to others… feed the hungry, etc… because when we do this to the “least of these”, we do it to Him. He also said we should forgive our enemies, do good to those who hate us, pray, believe in Him, repent of sin, be baptized… Christ gave us instructions of what God’s will is. He said, the two greatest Commandments are to love God and to love our neighbour.

In the end, we trust in His mercy. It’s wrong for a Christian to lie awake at night WORRYING about going to hell… because this shows distrust in Christ’s promises. We do not save ourselves, He saves us… our job is to cooperate with His grace. We need to trust in His forgiveness and pray that we’ll have the grace we need to persevere in faith and good works.

There are two types of fear/guilt. One is when we see our sins, and feel sorrow for them, but also have trust in God’s mercy and know we need to go to Confession and repent. This is from the Holy Spirit. Another type is when we just constantly feel guilty, or feel afraid that even if we’ll turn to Christ we won’t go to heaven…this is from the devil and it’s the sin of despair.

God bless

 

[jakasaki]

Jesus says, “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!” Mathew: 7:21-23

are you not fear to be one of them for example , they were christians and they used to use his name , yet they will not enter the kingdom of heaven

what is your thoughts about this verse ?

**You did not post the entire passage…

Elwill…When you choose to pick a verse from our Bible, make sure you understand Jesus’s message.**

A Tree and Its Fruit

**15“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. **

16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?

17Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.

18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.

19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

21“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’

23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

 

[Monica4316]

**You did not post the entire passage…

Elwill…When you choose to pick a verse from our Bible, make sure you understand Jesus’s message.**

A Tree and Its Fruit

**15“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. **

16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?

17Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.

18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.

19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

21“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’

23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

 

[jakasaki]

**You did not post the entire passage…

Elwill…When you choose to pick a verse from our Bible, make sure you understand Jesus’s message.**

A Tree and Its Fruit

**15“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. **

16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?

17Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.

18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.

19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

21“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’

23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Quote: Monica4316

I was going to state that Jesus is talking about "false prophets" as if he is talking about many of them which will come as well as islams mohamad.

God never spoke to mohamad, it is “alleged” that an angel spoke to him and mohamad attached the name Gabriel to this so called angel.

 

[Monica4316]

I was thinking about fear of hell. Am I sometimes afraid of going to hell? to be honest, yes. But then I remembered this passage it’s one of my favourites. from 1 John 3

11This is the message you heard from the beginning: We should love one another. 12Do not be like Cain, who belonged to the evil one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his own actions were evil and his brother’s were righteous. 13Do not be surprised, my brothers, if the world hates you. 14We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love our brothers. Anyone who does not love remains in death. 15Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life in him.

16This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers. 17If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him? 18Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth. 19This then is how we know that we belong to the truth, and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence 20whenever our hearts condemn us. For God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything.

21Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God 22and receive from him anything we ask, because we obey his commands and do what pleases him. 23And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24Those who obey his commands live in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

AMEN!!!

 

[elwill]

I think that our love for God is the basis of our service to Him. If we love Him sincerely, and try to do His will, this is what He is looking for. He doesn’t just want our actions, but our hearts as well.

you said that your love for God is the basis of your service to him
i say that my service to god will be berfect if i feared to disobey him and in the same time did extra obedience out of love

i have to fear God , so that i will not commit a sin , and i have to trust in his forgiveness if i allready commited the sin .
i can’t give up one of them , the bases are depends on two of them alike

whatever you say monica , but one of the repeated truths in the Bible is that God’s “mercy is on those who fear Him” (Luke 1:50).

seems to me that you consider fearness of God as to be sin , it’s not sin in islam actually to fear God
in islam fearness of God is mark of devoutness

We don’t measure our good works by how significant or important they are, but by the love with which we do them. As Jesus is saying in Matthew 7, there will be Christians who do extraordinary things like prophesy and cast out demons and perform miracles, but they have missed simply doing His will in their life…all their actions were in the end, only for themselves, and they did not seek what* God *wants from them.

God measure our Good works by our intensions and how sincerity we are with doing it toward allah

We should be discerning of what God’s will is. In another passage, Christ says that we must show compassion to others… feed the hungry, etc… because when we do this to the “least of these”, we do it to Him. He also said we should forgive our enemies, do good to those who hate us, pray, believe in Him, repent of sin, be baptized… Christ gave us instructions of what God’s will is. He said, the two greatest Commandments are to love God and to love our neighbour.

i have no problems with all that , i believe in the same teaching

In the end, we trust in His mercy. It’s wrong for a Christian to lie awake at night WORRYING about going to hell… because this shows distrust in Christ’s promises. We do not save ourselves, He saves us… our job is to cooperate with His grace. We need to trust in His forgiveness and pray that we’ll have the grace we need to persevere in faith and good works.

did you understood me when i said in my last post

our scholars of islam saying that if we found muslims have** more fear **from God **than hope and trust **,then we have to remind them with his mircifull and his love
in the contrary , if we found muslims have no fear from God , and feel they are far from punsihment or not subjected to it , then we have to remind them with his punishments and his anger

God said in quran to mohammed(pbuh)
15-49 Declare (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه و سلم) unto My slaves, that truly, I am the Oft-Forgiving, the Most-Merciful.
15-50 And that My Torment is indeed the most painful torment.

monica , the same as you , we too should to have trust in God , but in the same time we have to consider his warners and remember it either and reminds ourselfs with it

why then will God warn us from punishments if he really don’t want from us to fear him
why jesus said to christians that only those who does the will of my father who is in heaven will enter the kingdom of heaven , he didn’t say it’s enough to love me or it’s enough to believe in me !

There are two types of fear/guilt. One is when we see our sins, and feel sorrow for them, but also have trust in God’s mercy and know we need to go to Confession and repent. This is from the Holy Spirit. Another type is when we just constantly feel guilty, or feel afraid that even if we’ll turn to Christ we won’t go to heaven…this is from the devil and it’s the sin of despair.

God bless

we have exactly the same understnading and relation with God
God in quran called those who despair as unbelievers
fearing of God dosn’t mean despair from his forgiveness , i’m talking about balance . i don’t know why my view isn’t clear

 

[elwill]

**You did not post the entire passage…

Elwill…When you choose to pick a verse from our Bible, make sure you understand Jesus’s message.**

A Tree and Its Fruit

**15“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. **

16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?

17Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.

18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.

19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

21“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’

23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

i understand the entire passage very well. actually i believe in this passages , i didn’t criticize it

the teaching in this passage is exactly the same i have
i believe that me being a muslim isn’t enough to be safe , i believe that according my fruit and according my deeds my judgment will be
that’s exactly the reason which make muslims fear God , because although they are muslims and althugh they believe in the truth of their relegion , yet they knows that they are still under the test , and the consequences not known to them , we just have guide to pass and we fear to mislead this guidence

 

[Mosacked]

Do Muslims ever use their own words to pray to God? (like just talking to God)

do you ever feel God’s presence?

just curious

Muslims pray to allah, not god. These 2 are very different if you bother to research.

Try this:

muslimsopenyoureyes.blogspot.com

.

 

[Monica4316]

you said that your love for God is the basis of your service to him
i say that my service to god will be berfect if i feared to disobey him and in the same time did extra obedience out of love

i have to fear God , so that i will not commit a sin , and i have to trust in his forgiveness if i allready commited the sin .
i can’t give up one of them , the bases are depends on two of them alike

whatever you say monica , but one of the repeated truths in the Bible is that God’s “mercy is on those who fear Him” (Luke 1:50).

the word “fear” here means reverence and respect, and not wanting to offend Him.

sure a person can try to avoid sin cause they fear punishment from God.

but I think it’s more perfect to try to avoid sin cause you love God and don’t want to lose Him.

seems to me that you consider fearness of God as to be sin , it’s not sin in islam actually to fear God
in islam fearness of God is mark of devoutness

It depends on how you define fear. If you mean it to be reverence or respect or awe, or not wanting to offend or hurt Him, then - yes we should have that fear.

But if you mean we should try to not sin because we fear God’s punishment, - I don’t think that’s the most perfect motive. It works, but the Saints aimed for more.

in addition, fearing God’s anger after sinning can be good IF it humbles you, but if it makes you despair, then it’s sinful. We have to understand that God WANTS to show us mercy… that it’s not like He’s angry and we talk Him into being merciful. He IS mercy.

God measure our Good works by our intensions and how sincerity we are with doing it toward allah

sure, I can agree here

did you understood me when i said in my last post

our scholars of islam saying that if we found muslims have** more fear **from God **than hope and trust **,then we have to remind them with his mircifull and his love
in the contrary , if we found muslims have no fear from God , and feel they are far from punsihment or not subjected to it , then we have to remind them with his punishments and his anger

as a Christian, when I go to Confession, afterwards I do feel far from punishment of God because I have just received His mercy. I don’t believe that God is an angry God. He is a loving God who is waiting for us to turn to Him. I believe this because of Jesus and what His death on the Cross.

if I came out of Confession and someone told me to fear punishment, I’ll just say, “what punishment?” lol cause I just got the Sacrament that made my soul clean, and God remembers my sins no more

what I actually do after Confession is I ask God for the grace to not sin again

God said in quran to mohammed(pbuh)
15-49 Declare (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه و سلم) unto My slaves, that truly, I am the Oft-Forgiving, the Most-Merciful.
15-50 And that My Torment is indeed the most painful torment.

monica , the same as you , we too should to have trust in God , but in the same time we have to consider his warners and remember it either and reminds ourselfs with it

why then will God warn us from punishments if he really don’t want from us to fear him

but the way we avoid this punishment is not by fear. We avoid the punishment by turning to HIs mercy and trusting in His mercy. As a Christian I believe the only way we can avoid punishment is through salvation through Christ.

our relationship with God is based on love and trust, not on fearing His anger, because Jesus came to show that God is not angry, He wants to pardon sinners… right now is the hour of mercy

why jesus said to christians that only those who does the will of my father who is in heaven will enter the kingdom of heaven , he didn’t say it’s enough to love me or it’s enough to believe in me !

I’m not a Protestant so I don’t believe we’re saved by faith alone

but if we love Him, we would end up doing His will.

“faith, hope, and love, but the greatest of these is love” 1 Cor. 13.

we have exactly the same understnading and relation with God
God in quran called those who despair as unbelievers
fearing of God dosn’t mean despair from his forgiveness , i’m talking about balance . i don’t know why my view isn’t clear

I think it’s just unclear to me what you mean by “fear”

 

[elwill]

the word “fear” here means reverence and respect, and not wanting to offend Him.

sure a person can try to avoid sin cause they fear punishment from God.

but I think it’s more perfect to try to avoid sin cause you love God and don’t want to lose Him.

It depends on how you define fear. If you mean it to be reverence or respect or awe, or not wanting to offend or hurt Him, then - yes we should have that fear.

But if you mean we should try to not sin because we fear God’s punishment, - I don’t think that’s the most perfect motive. It works, but the Saints aimed for more.

in addition, fearing God’s anger after sinning can be good IF it humbles you, but if it makes you despair, then it’s sinful. We have to understand that God WANTS to show us mercy… that it’s not like He’s angry and we talk Him into being merciful. He IS mercy.

sure, I can agree here

as a Christian, when I go to Confession, afterwards I do feel far from punishment of God because I have just received His mercy. I don’t believe that God is an angry God. He is a loving God who is waiting for us to turn to Him. I believe this because of Jesus and what His death on the Cross.

if I came out of Confession and someone told me to fear punishment, I’ll just say, “what punishment?” lol cause I just got the Sacrament that made my soul clean, and God remembers my sins no more

what I actually do after Confession is I ask God for the grace to not sin again

but the way we avoid this punishment is not by fear. We avoid the punishment by turning to HIs mercy and trusting in His mercy. As a Christian I believe the only way we can avoid punishment is through salvation through Christ.

our relationship with God is based on love and trust, not on fearing His anger, because Jesus came to show that God is not angry, He wants to pardon sinners… right now is the hour of mercy

I’m not a Protestant so I don’t believe we’re saved by faith alone

but if we love Him, we would end up doing His will.

“faith, hope, and love, but the greatest of these is love” 1 Cor. 13.

I think it’s just unclear to me what you mean by “fear”

well , from my entire discussion with you , i can say that we have commons in our idea about how should people fear God
we just can’t stand in common ground or just we can’t determine the points we are talking about

you think that our only motivation to obey the God is the fearness .
well , it’s not the only motivation for us , their are many types of motivations in our worship
muslims fast in ordinary days although it’s not obligatory ,out of love
muslims pray extra (salat) in the night although it’s not obligatory out of love
muslims give charity out of love
muslims also dosn’t steal or cheat or lie or commit adultery out of fear
muslims don’t drink alkohol or deal with usury out of fear
and when muslim feels the blessing of God upon them they pray to him and thank him out of gratitude
when he respond to our prayers and bestow his mercy upon us we worship him out of love
when we commit a sin , we ask him the forgivness and crying to him out of fear
when we read his warners in quran , we feel fear and ask him to save us
when we read about his mercy upon believers in quran , we smile and pray to God to be among them

every warn and every glad tiding are for us , we dosn’t separate them by saying that this verse talking about me and the other dosn’t

that’s why we worship God out of fear and out of love
we trust him when he say " i am the Oft-Forgiving, the Most-Merciful. "
we trust him when he say " My Torment is indeed the most painful torment. "

i intend to make it clear , becuase i feel we repeating our words , and going in circle

 

[seraphime2008]

well , from my entire discussion with you , i can say that we have commons in our idea about how should people fear God
we just can’t stand in common ground or just we can’t determine the points we are talking about

you think that our only motivation to obey the God is the fearness .
well , it’s not the only motivation for us , their are many types of motivations in our worship
muslims fast in ordinary days although it’s not obligatory ,out of love; most muslims I know pray extra salat to get the scale balance (good deed vs bad deed etc…)
muslims pray extra (salat) in the night although it’s not obligatory out of love; most muslim I know do this in the case of emergency pray, they want something badly
muslims give charity out of love ; of which they believe that their charity will do the balance sheet again!
muslims also dosn’t steal or cheat or lie or commit adultery out of fear ; why need to fear such if you know it is not good for you!
muslims don’t drink alkohol or deal with usury out of fear; Again why out of fear? you know things are not really good for your health, especially if you can’t control your self!
and when muslim feels the blessing of God upon them they pray to him and thank him out of gratitude; yeah we do so for our entire life because we believe that Christ is our saviour!
when he respond to our prayers and bestow his mercy upon us we worship him out of love; of course we also do, but we don’t need a situation and condition to love him…
when we commit a sin , we ask him the forgivness and crying to him out of fear ; we also do, but we also know that we must repent sincerely because we don’t lie on a balance scale
when we read his warners in quran , we feel fear and ask him to save us ; we feel that the message in the bible is not for us to fear God’s judgement, but fear comes from looking at our own failure by distancing ourself from God by the exercise of our own free will.
when we read about his mercy upon believers in quran , we smile and pray to God to be among them ; we believe that we are the one that needs their prayer because we believe that the true believers are already with Him

every warn and every glad tiding are for us , we dosn’t separate them by saying that this verse talking about me and the other dosn’t

that’s why we worship God out of fear and out of love
we trust him when he say " i am the Oft-Forgiving, the Most-Merciful. "
we trust him when he say " My Torment is indeed the most painful torment. "

i intend to make it clear , becuase i feel we repeating our words , and going in circle

Sorry for abruptly interrupted in to the discussion !