Question about Jesus

[ClearWater]

I am in a pastoral group where they are teaching us about the Catholic faith, but some of it here (in Mexico) seems different than I remembered in the US.

In my group, they have said Jesus is also “Father” and “Creator”. In fact, in addition to the pastoral group, prayers here often reflect this. I see God as one, but I see God the Father as “Creator” and “Father”. I don’t see Jesus in those two roles. I don’t remember this from the US.

Now, I know that Jesus said that when we look at him, we are looking at the Father but still.

At the end of our study for each week, we have a series of questions. Indeed, it will ask what Christ was…answers will be things like, “king”, “pastor”.Along with that, here, they will throw in “Father”, and “Creator”.

I will basically raise my hand and tell them here that seems inconsistent from my understanding of it in the US. They will assure me it’s correct.

I’ll say, “Okay” and go back to my studies but have had this nagging question. I didn’t know if that was correct or not. So, I figured I’d come here for confirmation.

Thanks,

 

[tskrobacz]

First of all “Jesus” and “Christ” are two distinct faith affirmations. Christ (the “Word”) has existed from all eternity as it says in John’s Gospel. (e.g. Christ is not Jesus’ last name!) The Trinitarian understanding is that you cannot count the 3 persons of the trinity as distinct from one another. The “Creator” or “God” is the word that we use for the infinity of the primordial preciousness of that which we are intimately realizing ourselves to be one with.

 

[JerryZ]

hmmm, If they recite the Nicean creed at mass then this part is relevant to your question:

The triune God is a mistery, God the Father is aknowledged as the Creator of everything:

We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
and of all that is, seen and unseen.

Then:

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
one in Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation,
he came down from heaven:

So you see Jesus Christ is also involved in the creation that affects us.
Although I would hesitate to call Him “Father”

Hope this help…a little.

–

 

[mommamaree]

Brief outline from the catechisms I use with my children…

The Blessed Trinity is
One God in Three Divine Persons:
God the Father,
God the Son,
God the Holy Spirit.

We call God Creator, because He made all things out of nothing.

Additionally, from the Gospel of St. John, we know God the Son is the Logos, the Word of God. And from Genesis we know that God said “Let US make man in OUR image”, and that God spoke the universe into existence.
We also know that God the Son became man, in the person of Jesus (personal name) Christ (title meaning “anointed one”).
Ergo, God, the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, was responsible for creation. If God the Son is the Word of God and God spoke the universe into being, then Logos is that which proceeded from the Father to accomplish the work of creation that was the will of the Father.
Hope that helps!

 

[ClearWater]

Through him all things were made.

So you see Jesus Christ is also involved in the creation that affects us.
Although I would hesitate to call Him “Father”

Hope this help…a little.

–

Oh, I see…that does help. Likewise, I would hesitate to call him Father.

I didn’t understand the difference between “Jesus” and Christ. I use those two, interchanbeably.

 

[CalCatholic]

Oh…the mystery of the Trinity, it makes my head hurt!!! :whacky:

 

[mommamaree]

Oh, I see…that does help. Likewise, I would hesitate to call him Father.

I didn’t understand the difference between “Jesus” and Christ. I use those two, interchanbeably.

Quite right. God the Son is not God the Father. They are two distinct Persons within the Blessed Trinity, which is a communion of Persons. They are identical in essence. The Love that is breathed (spiration) between them is so real and perfect that it begets the third Person of the Trinity, the Holy Spirit; literally the Holy Breath of God.

 

[Simca]

I think the verses that are quoted most often are in The Gospel of John, the first chapter and first verse where it says that THE WORD (which is usually understood to mean Jesus) was with God in the beginning, and all things were made by Him, and without Him nothing came to be. And John 1:10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.

Also in Genesis chapter one where it says ‘Let US make man in OUR image’. This would seem to point to the Trinity, which would include The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. (Genesis 1:26)

Hope this helps

 

[bmonk]

On the other hand, as the Word of God, Jesus, the second person of the Trinity, is certainly involved in the work of creation–he is God’s expression of love, the Word through whom the Father creates, as when he says, “Let there be light,” and so on. We also see this in the Wisdom books–Wisdom has long been seen as an form or expression of the Second Person–Proverbs 8:22-31 includes “When he set for the sea its limit, so that the waters should not transgress his command; When he fixed the foundations of earth, then was I beside him as artisan; I was his delight day by day, playing before him all the while. . . .” (8:29-30), which clearly indicates a role in creation.

As for being a father, that is not so clear, but Jesus does refer to himself using a mother hen image, in Luke 13:34: “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how many times I yearned to gather your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, but you were unwilling!"

So these are relative terms, not technical and precise, but symbolic.

It is also notable that the use of “Creater, Redeemer, Sanctifier” was forbidden for valid baptisms, in part because

the formula “creator, redeemer, sanctifier” is not Trinitarian because it blurs the distinctions among the three persons of the Trinity who all are involved together in the divine actions of creation, redemption and sanctification.

So, while calling Christ Father is more confusing, as Christ is Son rather than Father, calling Christ as Creator is not entirely wrong.

 

[ClearWater]

It is also notable that the use of “Creater, Redeemer, Sanctifier” was forbidden for valid baptisms, in part because

So, while calling Christ Father is more confusing, as Christ is Son rather than Father, calling Christ as Creator is not entirely wrong.

“Creator, Redeemer, and Sanctifier” was forbidden for valid baptisms? I still am unable to understand why. That’s exactly how I understood it! Ah!

 

[JerryZ]

“Creator, Redeemer, and Sanctifier” was forbidden for valid baptisms? I still am unable to understand why. That’s exactly how I understood it! Ah!

It was forbidden because Jesus used specific words for the act of Baptism which the Church calls a Sacrament, instituded by Christ after He resurrected from the dead.

He instructed His Apostles to baptize everyone that believed in Him in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.

And the Church rightly will stick to those words and not deviate an iota from them.

By what authority would they change the formula left to the Church by Jesus?

Unless Jesus Himself comes down from Heaven and instructs the Church to change the formula, no one can.

–

 

[thistle]

“Creator, Redeemer, and Sanctifier” was forbidden for valid baptisms? I still am unable to understand why. That’s exactly how I understood it! Ah!

Because Jesus told the Apostles to baptise in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.
He did not use Creator, Redeemer, Sanctifier. This is a modern innovation by some who think its cute.
A baptism is NOT valid unless it is done in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.

 

[ClearWater]

Because Jesus told the Apostles to baptise in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.
He did not use Creator, Redeemer, Sanctifier. This is a modern innovation by some who think its cute.
A baptism is NOT valid unless it is done in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.

Oh right. I understand. I thought you were all trying to say God the Father wasn’t the Creator, that God the Son wasn’t the Redeemer, and the Holy Spirit wasn’t the Sanctifier.

It’s just that my original question was …is it okay to call Jesus “Father”?

 

[gwarald]

Jesus is the Creator:

John 1.1-3, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.”

Colossians 1.16-17, “By him [Jesus] were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.”

Jesus is one with the Father:

John 10.30, “I and my Father are one.”

 

[ClearWater]

So, the pastoral group is correct. I can call Jesus, “Father”.

 

[JerryZ]

So, the pastoral group is correct. I can call Jesus, “Father”.

Being “one with the Father” is not the same as BEING the Father,

As posted before by others while there is no doubt that Jesus is a participant in the act of Creation, Only the Father is “Father” the same as only The “Holy Spirit” is the Holy Spirit.

The Problem that can arise from using the formula “Creator, Redeemer, Sanctifier” is that we have replaced “PROPER NAMES” with “ADJECTIVES”. You will see that once you go down that road unitarianism creeps in.

God is 3 persons distinct from each other and they share some ADJECTIVES after all there is 1 GOD.

As a poor example I’ll use my Father’s eye color, we both have the same we share it but we are distinct persons. Jesus Christ shares the creative power of the Father but they are distinct.

Hope this helps.

–

 

[Contarini]

So, the pastoral group is correct. I can call Jesus, “Father”.

When we say “Father” of the First Person of the Trinity specifically, we are talking about His relationship with the other two Persons.

When we call God our Father, we are speaking to the whole Trinity.

And by the “communication of properties,” we can apply the attribute to Jesus as well.

I think they are probably just trying to stress the divinity of Jesus. It’s easy to become a “practical Arian.”

Edwin

 

[Simca]

In the Jewish prayer THE SHEMA, which is a quote from Deuteronomy, ‘Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is One’

The word ONE or Echad in Hebrew means ‘a unity’. It’s like saying one hand that consists of 5 fingers, or one bunch of grapes that contain many grapes.

Peace

 

[jochoa]

So, I figured I’d come here for confirmation.

Thanks,

Thanks for posing the question for reflection! Here are two ways of knowing Jesus is the Father.

From a faith-based perspective:
According to Catholicism: Jesus is God, and God is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, therefore Jesus is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

From the perspective of the Creator, the person who created everything:
Solve what is the person’s greatest creation, and why is it greatest?
Then resolve what must happen in order to fulfill this creation. Then when giving credit to the first source that shared the resolution, the timeliness of the Teachings of Catholicism provide sufficient evidence to know Jesus is the person who created everything.

One better way to know Jesus is the Father is through analysis of your accepted definition of God. Would you please share your understanding of “What or Who do you say God is?”

Thanks for your time and consideration, and I look forward to further discussion!

 

[JohnR77]

So, the pastoral group is correct. I can call Jesus, “Father”.

As long as we understand that God the Father is one Person of the Trinity who is Father from all eternity Fathering God the Son who is the Second Person of the Trinity, in my opinion – which isn’t worth that much- I don’t see anything wrong with calling Jesus a Father, since He is the perfect image of God the Father. For example, we call ordained priests “father” because they represent Jesus to us.

John 10.30, “I and my Father are one.”

Isaiah 9:5
“For a child is born to us, a son is given us;
upon his shoulder dominion rests.
**They name him Wonder-Counselor, God-Hero, **
Father-Forever, Prince of Peace.”

John