Question about Jesus

[bmonk]

“Creator, Redeemer, and Sanctifier” was forbidden for valid baptisms? I still am unable to understand why. That’s exactly how I understood it! Ah!

This useage was forbidden, as I understand it, because it is not baptizing “In the name” of the persons of Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Also, it is in their roles–but all three Persons are active in each of these roles of creating, redeeming, and sanctifying. So it muddles the three persons, and does not fulfill the direct command given the Church in Matthew 28:19.

 

[thistle]

This is the official Church position on the baptism formulas in the name of the Creator, and of the Redeemer, and of the Sanctifier, and also in the name of the Creator, and of the Liberator and of the Sustainer.
Baptisms using these formulas are invalid and anyone so baptised are in fact not baptised and would have to be baptised validly in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20080201_validity-baptism_en.html

CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH

RESPONSES TO QUESTIONS PROPOSED

on the validity of Baptism conferred with the formulas

«I baptize you in the name of the Creator, and of the Redeemer, and of the Sanctifier»
and «I baptize you in the name of the Creator, and of the Liberator, and of the Sustainer»

QUESTIONS

First question: Whether the Baptism conferred with the formulas «I baptize you in the name of the Creator, and of the Redeemer, and of the Sanctifier» and «I baptize you in the name of the Creator, and of the Liberator, and of the Sustainer» is valid?

Second question: Whether the persons baptized with those formulas have to be baptized in forma absoluta?

RESPONSES

To the first question: Negative.

To the second question: Affirmative.

The Supreme Pontiff Benedict XVI, at the Audience granted to the undersigned Cardinal Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, approved these Responses, adopted in the Ordinary Session of the Congregation, and ordered their publication.

Rome, from the Offices of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, February 1, 2008.

William Cardinal Levada
Prefect

Angelo Amato, S.D.B.
Titular Archbishop of Sila
Secretary

 

[Blue_Horizon]

I am in a pastoral group where they are teaching us about the Catholic faith, but some of it here (in Mexico) seems different than I remembered in the US.

In my group, they have said Jesus is also “Father” and “Creator”. In fact, in addition to the pastoral group, prayers here often reflect this. I see God as one, but I see God the Father as “Creator” and “Father”. I don’t see Jesus in those two roles. I don’t remember this from the US.

Now, I know that Jesus said that when we look at him, we are looking at the Father but still.

At the end of our study for each week, we have a series of questions. Indeed, it will ask what Christ was…answers will be things like, “king”, “pastor”.Along with that, here, they will throw in “Father”, and “Creator”.

I will basically raise my hand and tell them here that seems inconsistent from my understanding of it in the US. They will assure me it’s correct.

I’ll say, “Okay” and go back to my studies but have had this nagging question. I didn’t know if that was correct or not. So, I figured I’d come here for confirmation.

Thanks,

We will never understand the Trinity but a rule of thumb may help guide you clearly.

Wherever one Person of the Trinity acts in a Divine manner then all Persons act and are present. So the Son and Spirit are intimately involved in Creation with the Father etc.

Jesus and Christ, contrary to a previous poster’s view, equally refer to the Second Person via his Humanity. “Christ” means Messiah (a promised human being) after all.

The only point of confusion in this discussion may be over what is meant by “Redeemer”.
All three Persons are equally operative if we refer to purely Divine meanings to this word (eg all are united in acting wrt the Divine Plan of Salvation for the world and the Old Testament saving actions). However anything involving the God become Man (apart from the Divine act of this actually happening) only directly refers to the Second Person of the Trinity.