Question About Judgement

[tmyers]

Please consider the following scenario:

(1) Someone is Catholic.
(2) He/She generally goes to confession only once a year, and isn’t all that ‘religious’ about the faith.
(3) Unfortunately, this person dies in a state of mortal sin (before being able to make it to what would/could have been his/her last yearly confession).
(4) As a result (and/or for other reasons unknown to us), at his/her judgement, God decides not to mercifully extend salvation to this person, but instead, he/she goes to Hell, is eternally damned, and will be in a state of eternal and on-going punishment forever.

So here is the question:

Since this person has gone to confession a few times in his/her life, does the forgiveness and absolution that he/she did receive during his/her confessions still apply (thereby creating a situation in which this person is only eternally punished for the sins that were never absolved by sacramental confession), or will ALL of that person’s sins – even the ones that were forgiven and sacramentally absolved – be accounted for and punished during his/her eternal damnation in Hell?

In essence, does Christ’s crucifixion and resurrection end up ultimately gracing all peoples – even the ones who will be damned – with the mercy of God (in one capacity or another…through either lessened intensity of eternal punishment or greater intensity of eternal reward…depending on each individual person’s respective situation and spiritual state at death)?

Or in other words, will the souls who are damned in hell ultimately end up experiencing God’s mercy, too…(just in a different way)…and is Christ’s death and resurrection efficacious for all – even the damned? Or is Christ’s ultimate sacrifice only applied to those who will be in heaven? Moreover, if the latter is the case and not the former, what are the implications thereof in regards to the believed intrinsic/ontological efficaciousness of absolution that is received by sacramental confession)?

Please offer some discussion and/or reasons (as well as theological/Biblical authority if possible) for the answers/positions that you present?

Thank you, and God bless!!!

 

[stephe1987]

The sins that have been forgiven, stay forgiven.

If a person is in hell, it is because:
a) They are unrepentant of their sins… they know what was expected of them, purposely went against it, and are not sorry.
b) Their will was turned away from God and His will at the time of their death.

Now, you do not necessarily have to go to confession. Not that you should avoid it either. If you intended to go, were sorry for your sins, and changed your ways, I don’t think you would go to hell. But I do think you would have to spend some time in purgatory to cleanse you of your sins if you do not regularly go to Confession (forgive all sins) and receive the Eucharist (can forgive venial sins). And maybe if you could have gone to confession but deliberately chose not to that also counts as being willed away from God.
b) applies to everyone, even to non-Catholics and non-Christians. If you did God’s will to the best of your knowledge and ability, and are sorry for your sins, you still have a chance for God’s mercy to let you in heaven. Because although you did not know God in this life, your will was turned toward His will. I do not think God is a monster who condemns people just because they never knew the Christian faith. Maybe they grew up in a Muslim country or were raised by atheists or all they did know about Christianity was lies/exaggerations so they never became Christians.

You also have to remember that there are different levels of hell, just as there are of heaven. Not everyone in hell will suffer the same level of pain. Yes, there will be an intense pain on everyone in hell due to their choice to be separated from God–because souls were created to be with God and not away from Him–but the people who committed less offenses will suffer less than those who did worse.

Another thing: the Church does not say officially that any particular individual is in hell. Hell is not empty, and although we can figure out some of who is in heaven (miracles) the same cannot be said about hell. We cannot know the state of anyone’s soul at any point in time. Maybe a person did commit a mortal sin but wanted to confess… they are sorry for their sins so their will is toward God. Although it would be best to get to confession (I’m sure they’d need some cleansing in purgatory without the sacrament of reconciliation), I don’t think everyone who dies before they can get to confession or forgets to confess something is going to hell, as long as they are sorry.

But then again, I wouldn’t recommend not going to confession because purgatory is like the pain of hell; the only difference is that purgatory is not permanent. I do not recommend for anyone to shoot for purgatory, especially since we don’t always go where we aim for. Aim for heaven, land in purgatory. Aim for purgatory, land in hell. See? Aiming for heaven is trying our best and being on our toes with regards to sin; we will still fall but at least we are always trying to follow God’s plan for our lives. Aiming for purgatory is taking a more carefree approach, and of course you’re going to sin, are likely to slip away, and eventually you might not believe in sin at all.

Also, we do not know how long purgatory lasts. Some people say it is instantaneous and others have had visions speaking with souls who have spent 14 years in purgatory who know other souls who spent up to 400 years there depending on the level they started out in (i.e. your “starting level” is determined by the effects of sin on your soul, and you move up based on both how long you were there and prayers offered for your soul). So definitely pray for the souls in purgatory!

 

[bmullins]

I paint a wall.

You paint graffiti on it.

I paint the wall again.

You paint graffiti on it.

I paint the wall again.

You paint graffiti on it, again.

Now the paint I put on the wall still covered the first two drawings of yours, but in the end… the wall still has a drawing on it.

 

[tmyers]

Dear stephe1987,

Thank you for your in-depth response!

In regards to what you said about not necessarily needing confession; I agree with you, and I would make a comparison with baptism by desire.

So, just like someone can be baptized by desire, I believe that someone can also receive the absolving affects of sacramental confession by desire, as well; especially if they have perfect contrition, but even if they only have a modicum of imperfect contrition (or, in other words, attrition).

In the end, because I know about the fact that there will be levels/degrees of hell (as well as of purgatory and heaven), I was just concerned about what affects forgiven sins, if any, will be had on the damned. I didn’t know if their final rejection of God constituted in an ultimate way any possible willingness to receive any of His mercy at all, thereby negating and even reversing any grace/goodness (including sacramental absolution) that they may have received from Him during their lifetimes.

Personally, I have heard that the souls in hell do end up receiving God’s mercy (most commonly by shortening the lifespan of persons who will go to hell so that they wouldn’t be able to sin as much as they would/could have had they lived longer). This, of course, grants them less torture (and a less intense degree of suffering) for all eternity than they actually could have been receiving. Ironically enough, though, I have also heard that mercy, in itself, is a torture for the damned, and they would rather not have it at all. They would rather suffer more than they have to than contend with God’s mercy, because in the end, they hate God and every aspect of Him (which is Goodness) while they are in a chosen state of evil.

In conclusion, thanks again for your answer; it was great!!!
I am definitely shooting for heaven. As St. Paul says, we should condition ourselves and run the race to WIN!

Triumphs lie in faith…God bless!!!

 

[tmyers]

I paint a wall.

You paint graffiti on it.

I paint the wall again.

You paint graffiti on it.

I paint the wall again.

You paint graffiti on it, again.

Now the paint I put on the wall still covered the first two drawings of yours, but in the end… the wall still has a drawing on it.

These are very good points. This explains a lot about why people who have been absolved of all their sins still need to go to Purgatory. Confession only (in a roundabout way) covers us and our sins with the body and blood of Christ; it does not remove them. So in the end, the effects of the sin are still present, and need to be purged from us in order for us to attain true perfection. In essence, the paintings need to be totally erased through reparation; not just covered up by God’s grace of absolution and mercy.

This extends then to the souls who will be damned who are not able to satisfy any reparation for their sins anymore (and who in fact, eternally and perpetually continue in their sinfulness).

So based on this information and your view, they probably suffer for every sin that they commit (even them some of those sins were forgiven and absolved).

This seems to make general sense to me, just like the previous person’s post. I wonder which one is correct, though. Maybe we can never know until we die.

Thanks for your response…God bless!!!

 

[tmyers]

The sins that have been forgiven, stay forgiven.

If a person is in hell, it is because:
a) They are unrepentant of their sins… they know what was expected of them, purposely went against it, and are not sorry.
b) Their will was turned away from God and His will at the time of their death.

---

Thank you for your in-depth response!

In regards to what you said about not necessarily needing confession; I agree with you, and I would make a comparison with baptism by desire.

So, just like someone can be baptized by desire, I believe that someone can also receive the absolving affects of sacramental confession by desire, as well; especially if they have perfect contrition, but even if they only have a modicum of imperfect contrition (or, in other words, attrition).

In the end, because I know about the fact that there will be levels/degrees of hell (as well as of purgatory and heaven), I was just concerned about what affects forgiven sins, if any, will be had on the damned. I didn’t know if their final rejection of God constituted in an ultimate way any possible willingness to receive any of His mercy at all, thereby negating and even reversing any grace/goodness (including sacramental absolution) that they may have received from Him during their lifetimes.

Personally, I have heard that the souls in hell do end up receiving God’s mercy (most commonly by shortening the lifespan of persons who will go to hell so that they wouldn’t be able to sin as much as they would/could have had they lived longer). This, of course, grants them less torture (and a less intense degree of suffering) for all eternity than they actually could have been receiving. Ironically enough, though, I have also heard that mercy, in itself, is a torture for the damned, and they would rather not have it at all. They would rather suffer more than they have to than contend with God’s mercy, because in the end, they hate God and every aspect of Him (which is Goodness) while they are in a chosen state of evil.

In conclusion, thanks again for your answer; it was great!!!
I am definitely shooting for heaven. As St. Paul says, we should condition ourselves and run the race to WIN!

Triumphs lie in faith…God bless!!!

 

[tmyers]

Dear stephe1987,

Thank you for your in-depth response!

In regards to what you said about not necessarily needing confession; I agree with you, and I would make a comparison with baptism by desire.

So, just like someone can be baptized by desire, I believe that someone can also receive the absolving affects of sacramental confession by desire, as well; especially if they have perfect contrition, but even if they only have a modicum of imperfect contrition (or, in other words, attrition).

P.S.; I believe this only because of how much I know about God’s infinite love and mercy. Moreover, I also know that while we are bound by God’s sacraments, God, Himself, is not. He can choose to transcend them if He desires, and to forgive/absolve unconfessed sins. In the end, though, instead of counting on God to transcend His sacraments, I will hold them as being binding and necessary to me.

 

[thistle]

P.S.; I believe this only because of how much I know about God’s infinite love and mercy. Moreover, I also know that while we are bound by God’s sacraments, God, Himself, is not. He can choose to transcend them if He desires, and to forgive/absolve unconfessed sins. In the end, though, instead of counting on God to transcend His sacraments, I will hold them as being binding and necessary to me.

God cannot do anything that contradicts his own teachings through the Church which has his authority to bind and loose.
In other words when the Church teaches (with the full authority of God) that anyone who dies in a state of mortal sin goes immediately to Hell, God has said he will be bound by that.

 

[steve_b]

Please consider the following scenario:

(1) Someone is Catholic.
(2) He/She generally goes to confession only once a year, and isn’t all that ‘religious’ about the faith.
(3) Unfortunately, this person dies in a state of mortal sin (before being able to make it to what would/could have been his/her last yearly confession).
(4) As a result (and/or for other reasons unknown to us), at his/her judgement, God decides not to mercifully extend salvation to this person, but instead, he/she goes to Hell, is eternally damned, and will be in a state of eternal and on-going punishment forever.

So here is the question:

Since this person has gone to confession a few times in his/her life, does the forgiveness and absolution that he/she did receive during his/her confessions still apply (thereby creating a situation in which this person is only eternally punished for the sins that were never absolved by sacramental confession), or will ALL of that person’s sins – even the ones that were forgiven and sacramentally absolved – be accounted for and punished during his/her eternal damnation in Hell?

From the CCC
**1035 **The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, “eternal fire.” The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.

previous mortal sins that received absolution in sacramental confession, are gone from the soul.
t:

In essence, does Christ’s crucifixion and resurrection end up ultimately gracing all peoples – even the ones who will be damned – with the mercy of God (in one capacity or another…through either lessened intensity of eternal punishment or greater intensity of eternal reward…depending on each individual person’s respective situation and spiritual state at death)?

He drew all humanity to Him by His resurrection because He desires all to be saved and come to the knowledge of truth 1 Tim 2:4]. That as you know, doesn’t mean all people will respond.
t:

Or in other words, will the souls who are damned in hell ultimately end up experiencing God’s mercy, too…(just in a different way)…and is Christ’s death and resurrection efficacious for all – even the damned? Or is Christ’s ultimate sacrifice only applied to those who will be in heaven? Moreover, if the latter is the case and not the former, what are the implications thereof in regards to the believed intrinsic/ontological efficaciousness of absolution that is received by sacramental confession)?

Just because Jesus did His part, doesn’t mean we don’t have a part to play. As He said, we still need to pick up our cross daily and follow Him [Lk 9:23]. Those who avoid carrying their cross, and all it entails, aren’t following Him, and are probably signaling the message, they’re not bound for heaven but hell.

we don’t have a said faith but a lived faith. Said faith won’t save anyone. Jas 2:20-26]