Question about Lent and fasting

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Monica4316

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Hello,

I was told that I am technically Russian Catholic, but since there are not any Russian Catholic churches around me, I attend a Roman Catholic church… a while ago I moved to a new area for this year, and I found out that there is a Ukranian Catholic church near me. I spoke to the priest and he told me that I am Russian Catholic and the Ukranian parish is technically my parish and that is where I should go to church. However, sometimes I go to the Roman Catholic parish instead on Sunday. My question is, - is this a sin? or can I still choose? I am also confused because the priest at the Roman Catholic church said that in my circumstances, I was able to choose my rite when I converted (from Eastern Orthodoxy), or if I’m Eastern Catholic, I don’t necessarily have to attend an Eastern church.

I was also trying to figure out which fast to follow for Lent… the Eastern Catholic priest told me that I should follow the Eastern one, however there is a bit of a problem… I don’t really have money to buy food regularly, and my family brought me food for the last two months… but almost all of it contains meat. I asked the priest about this and he said it’s alright if I just fast on Wednesdays and Fridays. My question is, - is it common in Eastern churches for a priest to alter these requirements for people? I know in the Latin rite, if a person doesn’t fast on Ash Wednesday or Good Friday, that is something they should confess… is it the same here? am I doing something wrong in only fasting on Wednesday and Friday, - or am I just following the priest’s guidance?

I don’t know very much about the Eastern rites so Im a little confused… to be honest it’s kind of difficult for me to balance the two spiritualities/practices… I just want to be one, not try to practice both 😦

but what do you think?

God bless
 
Monica4316 said:
Hello,

I was told that I am technically Russian Catholic, but since there are not any Russian Catholic churches around me, I attend a Roman Catholic church… a while ago I moved to a new area for this year, and I found out that there is a Ukranian Catholic church near me. I spoke to the priest and he told me that I am Russian Catholic and the Ukranian parish is technically my parish and that is where I should go to church. However, sometimes I go to the Roman Catholic parish instead on Sunday. My question is, - is this a sin? or can I still choose? I am also confused because the priest at the Roman Catholic church said that in my circumstances, I was able to choose my rite when I converted (from Eastern Orthodoxy), or if I’m Eastern Catholic, I don’t necessarily have to attend an Eastern church.
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We are to attend a Catholic Liturgy every Sunday and “other days of obligation” regardless of Rite. Our canonical enrollment has no effect on which Rite we attend, as long as its Catholic.

I think the normal process for those coming into Catholicism from Orthodoxy is to belong to the equivalent Catholic Church. So if you were Russian Orthodox, then you’ll be Russian Catholic. But you are correct, you do not necessarily have to attend a Russian Catholic parish, nor even one that belongs to the Byzantine Rite. Its up to you.
Monica4316 said:
I was also trying to figure out which fast to follow for Lent… the Eastern Catholic priest told me that I should follow the Eastern one, however there is a bit of a problem… I don’t really have money to buy food regularly, and my family brought me food for the last two months… but almost all of it contains meat. I asked the priest about this and he said it’s alright if I just fast on Wednesdays and Fridays. My question is, - is it common in Eastern churches for a priest to alter these requirements for people? I know in the Latin rite, if a person doesn’t fast on Ash Wednesday or Good Friday, that is something they should confess… is it the same here? am I doing something wrong in only fasting on Wednesday and Friday, - or am I just following the priest’s guidance?

I don’t know very much about the Eastern rites so Im a little confused… to be honest it’s kind of difficult for me to balance the two spiritualities/practices… I just want to be one, not try to practice both 😦

but what do you think?

God bless
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Follow the traditions of the parish you belong to. As long as you fully intend to follow that Rite and its traditions, then there is nothing wrong with that. One might say that you are not following the rules and traditions of your canonical enrollment. But it is a sin to disobey the Church, what you are doing is following the traditions and practices of the parish you are attending, then you are following the Church, it is not a sin. What is a sin is if one would reason that they will follow another tradition to circumvent another. So if an Eastern Catholic claims Roman Catholic traditions just so they don’t have to fast on Wednesdays, then that is a sin. But if an Eastern Catholic goes to a Roman Catholic parish and fully intends to practice and live as a Roman Catholic, then there is nothing wrong to follow Roman Catholic tradition. Remember, with sin intent is they key.
 
Thanks for the reply… to be honest, I like the Eastern rites too and the liturgy, but I want to be Roman Catholic because that is my spirituality, and it’s like i feel torn in two directions… I attend a Roman Catholic parish, yet try to follow the fast of the Eastern Catholic parish, the priest who I spoke to about this fast it technically my pastor but not of the parish I attend, etc… its like I have two parishes and it’s very confusing and doesn’t help me spiritually. i should just start regularly attending the Eastern parish and go to the Latin church on weekdays,** or**, switch rites formally and be Roman Catholic.
 
which one do you feel more connected to maybe chose that one for a couple of weeks
 
Monica4316 said:
Hello,

I was told that I am technically Russian Catholic, but since there are not any Russian Catholic churches around me, I attend a Roman Catholic church… a while ago I moved to a new area for this year, and I found out that there is a Ukranian Catholic church near me. I spoke to the priest and he told me that I am Russian Catholic and the Ukranian parish is technically my parish and that is where I should go to church. However, sometimes I go to the Roman Catholic parish instead on Sunday. My question is, - is this a sin? or can I still choose? I am also confused because the priest at the Roman Catholic church said that in my circumstances, I was able to choose my rite when I converted (from Eastern Orthodoxy), or if I’m Eastern Catholic, I don’t necessarily have to attend an Eastern church.

I was also trying to figure out which fast to follow for Lent… the Eastern Catholic priest told me that I should follow the Eastern one, however there is a bit of a problem… I don’t really have money to buy food regularly, and my family brought me food for the last two months… but almost all of it contains meat. I asked the priest about this and he said it’s alright if I just fast on Wednesdays and Fridays. My question is, - is it common in Eastern churches for a priest to alter these requirements for people? I know in the Latin rite, if a person doesn’t fast on Ash Wednesday or Good Friday, that is something they should confess… is it the same here? am I doing something wrong in only fasting on Wednesday and Friday, - or am I just following the priest’s guidance?

I don’t know very much about the Eastern rites so Im a little confused… to be honest it’s kind of difficult for me to balance the two spiritualities/practices… I just want to be one, not try to practice both 😦

but what do you think?

God bless
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Why do you fast?
 
Monica4316 said:
Thanks for the reply… to be honest, I like the Eastern rites too and the liturgy, but I want to be Roman Catholic because that is my spirituality, and it’s like i feel torn in two directions… I attend a Roman Catholic parish, yet try to follow the fast of the Eastern Catholic parish, the priest who I spoke to about this fast it technically my pastor but not of the parish I attend, etc… its like I have two parishes and it’s very confusing and doesn’t help me spiritually. i should just start regularly attending the Eastern parish and go to the Latin church on weekdays,** or**, switch rites formally and be Roman Catholic.
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Some would suggest you do not need to formally switch Rites, although that is a formal validation to yourself and others of where you truly belong. In your heart, you know which tradition and spirituality you need to follow.

The truth about fasting is you need to connect with a spiritual father who will guide you in fasting. One who can prescribe the hows and address the whys. We shouldn’t fast for the sake of fasting, just because the Church told us we should fast. There should be a spiritual advantage to fasting. Remember that the only difference between East and West with regards to fasting is the West prescribes the minimum, which means you can do more. And the East prescribes the ideal, which means you can do less if you are unable to for good reason.
 
I think Monica needs to figure out which tradition really suits her best, then stick to that one and follow it. Then the rules about fasting and spiritual ttradition will not be the problems for her like they are now.
 
Monica4316 said:
Hello,

I was told that I am technically Russian Catholic, but since there are not any Russian Catholic churches around me, I attend a Roman Catholic church… a while ago I moved to a new area for this year, and I found out that there is a Ukranian Catholic church near me. I spoke to the priest and he told me that I am Russian Catholic and the Ukranian parish is technically my parish and that is where I should go to church. However, sometimes I go to the Roman Catholic parish instead on Sunday. My question is, - is this a sin? or can I still choose? I am also confused because the priest at the Roman Catholic church said that in my circumstances, I was able to choose my rite when I converted (from Eastern Orthodoxy), or if I’m Eastern Catholic, I don’t necessarily have to attend an Eastern church.
Click to expand...
You’ve been told (repeatedly) that your priest, probably in ignorance, gave you wrong information. Converts from orthodoxy do NOT get to choose, and are automatically enrolled in the corresponding Church Sui Iuris of the same tradition as their Orthodox church.

You may request a change… it may take some time. But unless you request it in writing, you will remain a Russian Catholic, and never be Roman. (In other words, submit the request for canonical transfer.)

Canon law is explicit that you may attend in any parish of any rite to fulfill your obligations. It’s also explicit that your ritual church of enrollment establishes your days of obligation and fasting. Which means, unless you get the proper permissions, you’re still obligated to the Russian Calendar. It’s also explicit that no matter how long you attend some other church sui iuris’ liturgies, it has no effect on your enrollment; you have to explicitly put in writing the request for change.

If the local bishop has ascribed care of the Russians to the local Ukrainian parish (and most have), then:
  1. the local ukrainian pastor is your proper pastor. Which means it is to him you apply for dispensations.
  2. the local ukrainian parish’s bishop is your bishop, not the local Roman one.
It’s very rare for a bishop or pastor not to dispense one to follow the local diocesan calendar for those the bishop or pastor has canonical care of… but they have no authority to do so at all if they’ve ascribed the care to another bishop. So it’s likely you’ll be dispensed to the lighter-than-Russian and more-severe-than-Roman Ukrainian fasting rules.
 
Monica4316 said:
Hello,

I was told that I am technically Russian Catholic, but since there are not any Russian Catholic churches around me, I attend a Roman Catholic church… but what do you think?

God bless
Click to expand...
I have forgotten your story.

What church were you raised in as a child? Who baptised you?

If you were raised Orthodox you would automatically be ascribed into one of the Eastern Catholic churches unless you do something specific to change it.

Honestly, it hardly matters, you can attend any church you want.

If you were raised RC then you would be considered RC, even if you spent time as an Orthodox. If you were raised Protestant and converted to Orthodox I am pretty sure you would be ascribed to an EC church. Since the Russian Catholic church has no hierarchy it is something of an artificial construction, so your Latin rite bishop probably represents them in your area … you could go to a similar church like the UGCC but you really don’t have to. You can still attend the Latin rite church.

If the issue bothers you considerably just tell your priest to help you with a change to canonical enrolment, insist upon it, and rest easy 🙂
 
Aramis said:
You’ve been told (repeatedly) that your priest, probably in ignorance, gave you wrong information. Converts from orthodoxy do NOT get to choose, and are automatically enrolled in the corresponding Church Sui Iuris of the same tradition as their Orthodox church.

You may request a change… it may take some time. But unless you request it in writing, you will remain a Russian Catholic, and never be Roman. (In other words, submit the request for canonical transfer.)

Canon law is explicit that you may attend in any parish of any rite to fulfill your obligations. It’s also explicit that your ritual church of enrollment establishes your days of obligation and fasting. Which means, unless you get the proper permissions, you’re still obligated to the Russian Calendar. It’s also explicit that no matter how long you attend some other church sui iuris’ liturgies, it has no effect on your enrollment; you have to explicitly put in writing the request for change.

If the local bishop has ascribed care of the Russians to the local Ukrainian parish (and most have), then:
  1. the local ukrainian pastor is your proper pastor. Which means it is to him you apply for dispensations.
  2. the local ukrainian parish’s bishop is your bishop, not the local Roman one.
It’s very rare for a bishop or pastor not to dispense one to follow the local diocesan calendar for those the bishop or pastor has canonical care of… but they have no authority to do so at all if they’ve ascribed the care to another bishop. So it’s likely you’ll be dispensed to the lighter-than-Russian and more-severe-than-Roman Ukrainian fasting rules.
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Of the 3 Russian catholic churches in the US NONE of them have been ascribed to the Ukrainians. NY & LA are under the Melkites, and Denver remains under the Latin bishop.
 
ciero said:
Of the 3 Russian catholic churches in the US NONE of them have been ascribed to the Ukrainians. NY & LA are under the Melkites, and Denver remains under the Latin bishop.
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I think Aramis meant that Russian Catholics are ascribed care to a Ukrainian Parish, not Russian Catholic parishes being cared by Ukrainian Bishops
 
ciero said:
Of the 3 Russian catholic churches in the US NONE of them have been ascribed to the Ukrainians. NY & LA are under the Melkites, and Denver remains under the Latin bishop.
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There are* four* Russian Byzantine Catholic Churches in the US 🙂 and we in SF are also under the spiritual care of the Melkite Eparchy (for what that’s worth… a bishop for ordinations or tonsure mainly I think). This says Denver has informal care with the Romanian Eparchy of St George in Canton.
Byzantine-Russian:
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There is no ecclesiastical structure for Russian Greek (Byzantine) Catholics in North America. Russian Catholics currently fall under the canonical jurisdiction of the local Roman Catholic ordinary.
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However, the Russian Greek-Catholic parish in El Segundo, CA, is formally committed to the spiritual omophorion of the Melkite Eparchy of Newton by mutual agreement of the hierarchs involved. Also by mutual agreement of the hierarchs involved, the Russian parish in San Francisco is informally committed to the spiritual omophorion of the Melkite Eparchy and that in Denver, also informally, to the spiritual omophorion of the Romanian Eparchy of St George in Canton. The Russian parish in NYC is currently served by Melkite clergy, but has no formal or informal relationship with the Melkite Eparchy.
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ConstantineTG said:
I think Aramis meant that Russian Catholics are ascribed care to a Ukrainian Parish, not Russian Catholic parishes being cared by Ukrainian Bishops
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Outside the boundaries of those 4, many bishops will ascribe care of the Russians to other churches sui iuris present in their see.

In Alaska, officially, St. Nicholas gets ALL the EC’s, putting them under the Ruthenians, for example, since no other Church sui iuris is present in a corporate sense.
 
Does anyone know about Canada? I live in Ontario… I’m not sure if the Russian Catholic church here is ascribed to the care of the local Latin bishop, or another Eastern bishop…
 
Monica4316 said:
Does anyone know about Canada? I live in Ontario… I’m not sure if the Russian Catholic church here is ascribed to the care of the local Latin bishop, or another Eastern bishop…
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There is a strong presence of Ukrainian Catholics in Canada. If you are in Ontario and you are anywhere near Brampton, I suggest going to St. Elias. If you want to pursue that.

But as ciero said, Russian Catholics are under the care of the Latin Bishops in North America (Canada and US). I found that info on ByzCath.org as well.
 
Monica4316 said:
Does anyone know about Canada? I live in Ontario… I’m not sure if the Russian Catholic church here is ascribed to the care of the local Latin bishop, or another Eastern bishop…
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I believe there are only the 4 Russian Greek (Byzantine) Catholic Churches which are in the US. There are other Byzantine Russian Catholics (as opposed to Russian Latin/Roman Catholics) such as yourself. It makes sense that those individual persons who are Russian ECCs would be ascribed to the care of another EC Bishop by their Latin Bishop.

Canada is the land of the Ukrainian ECCs, is it not? 🙂 St Elias in Brampton Ontario is the Holy Land for an EC. 😃
 
ConstantineTG said:
But as ciero said, Russian Catholics are under the care of the Latin Bishops in North America (Canada and US). I found that info on ByzCath.org as well.
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Our parishes are “Canonically: Latin, Ritually: Russian” but as I quoted from ByzCath three of us are committed to the spiritual omophorion of the Melkite Eparchy of Newton, and one to the Romanian Eparchy of St George. See Find-A-Parish → By Church → Russian Greek-Catholic Church → United States → All Active.
 
5Loaves said:
I believe there are only the 4 Russian Greek (Byzantine) Catholic Churches which are in the US. There are other Byzantine Russian Catholics (as opposed to Russian Latin/Roman Catholics) such as yourself. It makes sense that those individual persons who are Russian ECCs would be ascribed to the care of another EC Bishop by their Latin Bishop.

Canada is the land of the Ukrainian ECCs, is it not? 🙂 St Elias in Brampton Ontario is the Holy Land for an EC. 😃
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Most of the Ukrainians settled in the Midwest and Ontario. That is why the Metropolitan is in Winnipeg, MB. Hopefully we get to have more members even those who are not Ukrainians. I am hoping that this will be what the Ukrainian Church will be doing moving forward with a new Patriarch who has been Bishop in the diaspora and who speaks 5 languages.

Not sure if Monica is interested to pursue her Byzantine heritage. But if she does, then St. Elias is the place to be. There’s not a better Ukrainian parish here in North America. The only thing I don’t like about St. Elias is they follow the Julian Calendar. Which means its hard to join Liturgies which would fall on regular work days. For example, Christmas won’t be on the Gregorian December 25 which is a holiday in Canada. Most employers would even give December 24 as a half-day. So more time to prepare for the evening services. But instead it all happens during an otherwise regular workday.
 
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