Question about Locutions

[Zeldarocks]

Oftentimes, when I ask God a question, I may get a thought or phrase in return; I don’t know whether or not these are of God, the Devil, or of my own creation. Will we “know that we know” when we truly receive something from God? Or will there be doubt or uncertainty after the fact?

 

[Philotheatoo]

I try to remember that, when the thought of God enters my mind, it is God contacting me, not me contacting God. Therefore; when in your case, it is a question in my heart which is followed by an answer I examine the entire conversation before determining if it was my own will or God’s choice presented to me. If I am still uncertain, I ask myself, ‘WWJD’? In that I can usually find the answer. But, I am certainly no expert. Good luck to you in your prayers and God bless you.

 

[Justicia_et_Pax]

As a general rule in my own life: if I’m unsure where it came from, it did not come from God

 

[JRKH]

Oftentimes, when I ask God a question, I may get a thought or phrase in return; I don’t know whether or not these are of God, the Devil, or of my own creation. Will we “know that we know” when we truly receive something from God? Or will there be doubt or uncertainty after the fact?

This is something that is really hard to answer. It may depend on a number of factors AND it may not be a strict “yes or no” (in regards to having doubts or questions).

I am of the view that we need first to properly orient ourselves in prayer and in attitude toward God. “Seek first the Kingdom”. St John tells is in 1 John 4:8 that God is Love. Jesus tells us in Mt 22:36-40 that All of the Law and Prophets are based on Love. St Paul tells us that Love is greater, and more necessary, faith or hope.
So - this is where the journey begins. Love God with all your heart, mind and strength and then Love your neighbor as yourself.

The above may seem an odd answer to your question of how one knows about locutions…But in fact, the more firmly oriented you are toward God through Love, the easier it is to spot things that are not of God, for they will not sit firmly in Love.

This is a great “secret” of our faith that many overlook. All of the teachings of the Church on faith and morals stem from this properly oriented Love.

I have read that, when we receive such a locution we should not try to hold on to it and analyze it but rather let it wash over us and then move on. If we try to pull it out of the spiritual realm and into the “intellectual” realm we will lose its deeper meaning and significance (probably by the inevitable analyzing that we are all prone to).
If we are properly oriented to God in Love, as I described above, Loving locutions (from God) will “stick” to the soul while unloving (ungodly) ones will not and will be rejected.

It’s difficult to be any more specific than this…

If you have concern about a locution you can certainly ask a trusted spiritual adviser about it and see what they say.

Peace
James

 

[puzzleannie]

. Will we “know that we know” when we truly receive something from God? ?

when we submit these spiritual experiences to our confessor priest, or spiritual director, for discernment and together, over time and with prayer accept what is good and reject what is not as Paul tells us to do.

 

[Jesus_123]

:bible1:
Dearly beloved,
believe not every spirit,
but TRY the spirits if they be of
God:
because many false prophets
are gone out into the world.
- 1 John 4:1
+Hi Zelda . . . yours is an excellent question for consideration . . .

As Mother Angelica so often has shared within the vast ministry our **Wonderful Lord **entrusted her to found through the profoundly Catholic Eternal Word Television Network (EWTN) . . . Sacred :bible1: Scripture contains the “thoughts of God” . . .

. . . :coffeeread: . . .
CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
PART ONE: THE PROFESSION OF FAITH

Article 2 - THE TRANSMISSION OF DIVINE REVELATION

81
Sacred Scripture is the speech of God as it is put down in writing under the breath of the Holy Spirit.

Article 3 - SACRED SCRIPTURE

104
In Sacred Scripture, the Church constantly finds her nourishment and her strength, for she welcomes it ** not** as human word, "but as what it really is, the Word of God."

**In the sacred books,
the Father who is in heaven
comes lovingly to meet his children,
and talks with them. **

:bible1: “How precious also are thy thoughts unto me, O God! how great is the sum of them! If I should count them, they are more in number than the sand …” Psalms 139:17-18b​

:bible1: “Heaven and earth shall pass away, but **my words **shall not pass away.” Matthew 24:35​

Since a child at my extraordinarily wonderful mother’s knee . . . my life has been saturated with . . . **Sacred :bible1: Scripture **. . . passages of which under her guidance we as her several children started memorizing while still just babes . . . I try to prayerfully submit and surrender every leading and thought back to the **Lord **and seek out second and third witnesses as to whether it is of God . . . or not . . . through the revelation of the Thoughts of God **as revealed in Sacred Scripture . . . and also through the doctrines and teachings of our Holy Mother Catholic Church . . . these sound healthy sources are always available to us to help us to “test/try the spirits” as to whether what we have received is of the Lord . . . or not . . .

. . . all for Jesus+
. . . thank You Blessed Lord+
. . . thank You Sweet Spirit of our Holy God+
. . . thank you Holy Mother Mary+
. . . thank you Holy Mother Church+​

 

[Jesus_123]

*Just a couple of cents :twocents: worth of observation and thought from the wonderful rich Benedictine and Franciscan spiritualities within our Apostolic Holy Roman Catholic Church . . . *

For some souls . . . **Sacred :bible1: Scripture ** . . . and the reading of other materials re Christianity and Catholicism . . . are approached from a very human mind-oriented/mental-intellectual approach and mindset . . . however . . . quite frankly . . . for my very simple soul in the Lord . . . graciously blest and immersed by our Lord in both Franciscan and Benedictine Catholic spiritualities . . . contemplative prayer and Lectio Divina (divine reading) . . . have always been my primary approach to growing in the sweet . . . Grace of God . . . and in Catholicism . . . day by day . . . perhaps . . . as a child of God . . . whose soul is newly discovering the depths of the riches of Catholicism . . . the below . . . profoundly Benedictine and Franciscan spiritual understandings . . . might be of some help in your spiritual progress day by day as an RCIA student . . .

In these Catholic spiritualities . . . prayer . . . is essentially the **heart ** of one’s soul “talking” to its God . . . on the other hand . . . meditation is taught in Sacred :bible1: Scripture and by our Holy Mother Catholic Church as essentially being the heart of one’s soul “listening” to its God . . . the ultimate goal of these actions of the soul being that at the center . . . of the deep interior quiet within the heart of the soul . . . the soul enters into . . . *constant holy conversation and communion with its God *. . .

Lectio Divina (divine reading) . . . is perhaps the clearest most well lit holy pathway I know of for the soul to “listen” to its God . . . essentially it is encountering God in the reading of a literary level of holy writings in Christendom believed to be especially blessed and anointed of God . . . first order and always primary of which is God’s . . . **Holy :bible1: Word **. . . Sacred Scripture . . . and which group of writings can also include . . . The Holy Rule of St. Benedict . . . The Catechism of the Catholic Church . . . The Baltimore Catechism . . . the Creeds . . . writings of the Fathers and Saints of the Church, etc., . . . and as such . . . when **prayerfully ** read and meditated upon the . . . **Holy Spirit **. . . Wonderful Counselor of Our God . . . is abundantly available to help regarding the reading, meditating and experiencing the understanding of same . . .

The holy Benedictine monk Archabbot Douglas R. Nowicki , O.S.B. of the Saint Vincent Archabbey in Latrobe, Pennsylvania here in the United States . . . recommends that we . . . slow down radically . . . when reflecting on inspired material . . . so as to . . . *open up freely *. . . to the treasury of insights contained therein . . . he goes on further to share with beautiful simplicity:

Lectio Divina (divine reading)
Archabbot Douglas R. Nowicki , O.S.B. (Order of St. Benedict)

“It is the **monastic insight **that reading, if it be authentic, cannot be undertaken simply with the eyes and the mind. Rather it must involve the whole person: mind, heart, body and spirit. It is reading not so much for information as for formation, that is, for encounter with the living God in this moment in such a way that one’s heart catches fire and one’s life is transformed … In St. Benedict’s day reading a sacred or spiritual text was practiced not so much for the sake of ‘information,’ but rather in order to be ‘formed’: that is, to be inwardly changed or shaped. …

Thus the aim of lectio divina (divine reading), i.e., pondering the material in a slow, prayerful way, is to dispose ourselves to welcome God’s ever-present grace and His efforts to conquer our hearts and transform us more and more into a holy people . . . ”
​

. . . all for Jesus+
. . . thank You Dear Blessed Lord+
. . . praise God from Whom all blessings flow+
:harp:
​

 

[Neil_Anthony]

Oftentimes, when I ask God a question, I may get a thought or phrase in return; I don’t know whether or not these are of God, the Devil, or of my own creation. Will we “know that we know” when we truly receive something from God? Or will there be doubt or uncertainty after the fact?

Yes, you should know very strongly that you heard the voice of God. That’s one of the signs of a real locution vs. your imagination. It will affect you in a deep way that is not easily forgotten and probably associated with strong feelings. Also if it was real you should get confirmation, that is, you will receive a second sign in a different way that confirms the first. (I’m not an expert, but I’ve read these principles somewhere and that’s how it worked for me)

 

[DBT]

A couple of principles to keep in mind:

It often happens that when we’re prayerfully recollected thoughts pop into our mind. They may even be considered inspired. As St. John of the Cross teaches in “The Ascent,” this is one of the main ways the Holy Spirit teaches us. Human thought and the Divine can and do comingle in recollected souls. However, our natural self filters these thoughts so it’s possible … even probable … to misinterpret the meaning. If it motivates us to love (regardless the actual source) that’s obviously a good thing … but we should stop short of thinking “God told me such and such” … especially if it leads us to some significant course of action. Further discernment would be required in that case.

St. John also describes “touches” and these are more reliable than what I describe above. The basic difference is that a “touch” comes from out of the blue (ie. we’re not thinking about the matter at hand) and it causes a pronounced “rememberence” of God that leaves a deep impression in the soul. It can not be doubted … and, most important, leads to growth in virtue.

Hope this helps,
Dave

 

[Zeldarocks]

The locution in question here is the one I experienced yesterday while listening to Donna Cori Gibson’s Eucharistic song “Trust in Me.” This was my experience:

"I felt led to get on YouTube and listen to Donna Cori Gibson’s “JESUS CHRIST IN THE EUCHARIST” video; as I did, I was overcome with the presence of God and began to weep; I came to a realization: I have “trampled the Lord’s blood underfoot” with my sin and contempt; that is to say, in my sin, it is though I had taken the Lord’s sacrifice on the cross as a joke. The Lord wasn’t crucified so that I might continue sinning, but so that I can be set free. I repented and uttered “Lord, I am not worthy that you should come under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed” I heard in my spirit before I was even done saying those words: “Be healed.”’

Now, though I did not doubt it after it happened (in fact, I received immediate and complete peace of mind and spirit), I began to do so after the fact, particularly the response “Be healed” which I received after uttering “Lord, I am not worthy that you should come under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed.” I began to think that maybe I “spoke for God” or the it was “wishful thinking,” doubting whether or not it had been God who had given me the response.

Now, I don’t think it was the Devil, given the nature of the experience, particularly the call to repentance; however, I am uncertain as to the nature of it: God, or my mind…

 

[DBT]

The locution in question here is the one I experienced yesterday while listening to Donna Cori Gibson’s Eucharistic song “Trust in Me.” This was my experience:

"I felt led to get on YouTube and listen to Donna Cori Gibson’s “JESUS CHRIST IN THE EUCHARIST” video; as I did, I was overcome with the presence of God and began to weep; I came to a realization: I have “trampled the Lord’s blood underfoot” with my sin and contempt; that is to say, in my sin, it is though I had taken the Lord’s sacrifice on the cross as a joke. The Lord wasn’t crucified so that I might continue sinning, but so that I can be set free. I repented and uttered “Lord, I am not worthy that you should come under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed” I heard in my spirit before I was even done saying those words: “Be healed.”’

Now, though I did not doubt it after it happened (in fact, I received immediate and complete peace of mind and spirit), I began to do so after the fact, particularly the response “Be healed” which I received after uttering “Lord, I am not worthy that you should come under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed.” I began to think that maybe I “spoke for God” or the it was “wishful thinking,” doubting whether or not it had been God who had given me the response.

Now, I don’t think it was the Devil, given the nature of the experience, particularly the call to repentance; however, I am uncertain as to the nature of it: God, or my mind…

Please refer to the attached link … and read chapters 29-31:

www.catholictreasury.info/books/ascent/asc45.php

This gets a bit technical … but hopefully it will help you better understand the various type of locutions. Inspired thought as mentioned in my previous post is considered a “successive locution.” What you seem to be describing would either be a “formal” or “substantial” locution. The key difference between the last two are the effects the locution has upon the soul. Here is a key extract:
St. John of the Cross:

It is as if Our Lord were to say formally to the soul: ‘Be thou good’; it would then be substantially good. Or as if He were to say to it: ‘Love thou Me’; it would then have and feel within itself the substance of love for God. Or as if it feared greatly and He said to it: ‘Fear thou not’; it would at once feel within itself great fortitude and tranquility. For the saying of God, and His word, as the Wise Man says, is full of power;[470] and thus that which He says to the soul He produces substantially within it.

Also, please be mindful of the various cautions mentioned by St. John of the Cross. Even when from God they are to be neither desired or clung to.

Blessings,

Dave

 

[Zeldarocks]

Right after I heard the words “be healed” I experienced a great peace, to the point where I tried to get my mind to overanalyze, but would not happen; I just sort of was in a state of calm and tranquility… It was only a few hours later when I began to overanalyze, that my peace began to be disturbed.

 

[Bookcat]

when we submit these spiritual experiences to our confessor priest, or spiritual director, for discernment and together, over time and with prayer accept what is good and reject what is not as Paul tells us to do.

 

[Zeldarocks]

“With respect to formal words the soul can have no doubt as to whether or no it is pronouncing them itself, for it sees quite ready that it is not, especially when it has not been thinking of the subject of that which has been said to it; and even when it has been so thinking it feels very clearly and distinctly that the words come from elsewhere.”

I have received this type of locution only once in my life: when I asked God “Why don’t you just show yourself/pour out your Spirit to the entire world” I instantly received a reply, not having expected it: “The parable of the sower and the seed.” That is to say, some would receive it, and others reject it…

When I experienced that locution several years ago, I had no doubt whatsoever in my spirit that it had come from God.

---

Now, there have been other times when I have asked God, particularly on this journey into the Catholic Church: “Do you want me to become Catholic?” and would receive a Bible verse such as “God does not dwell in temples built by hands.”

I took that to mean that God didn’t need to dwell in Catholic Churches or Cathedrals, that we had no need for Eucharistic adoration, etc. because God dwells in the hearts of men, not in great cathedrals, temples, or churches as in the Old Testament.

That time around, it felt nigh clear that I had heard from God, not wanting to act on it because I wanted to continue on my journey into the Church. Now, if that was from God, then the Catholic Church was a lie; if it wasn’t, then neither was my recent locution of supernatural origin; for it took place in nigh the same fashion as the above…

 

[Blenderx]

Thank you for posting this question, Zeldarocks, I have had the exact same thing for a long time! I usually get a thought or phrase (not in a foreign voice) that pops in my head, only when I am recollected, in answer to a question or problem. It usually brings a level of peace and calm to my mind and soul and guidance where I need it. It troubles me now and then, because there is no way of knowing how much of it is God, and how much myself, or even the Devil. I have come to accept that it is likely a mixture, and therefore I don’t put undue weight on any of it, but make use of what I can, so long as it is not against Truth and morals (as revealed to us in Scripture and by the Church). This seems to me the simplest and most reasonable way.

I really like this response, btw:

A couple of principles to keep in mind:

It often happens that when we’re prayerfully recollected thoughts pop into our mind. They may even be considered inspired. As St. John of the Cross teaches in “The Ascent,” this is one of the main ways the Holy Spirit teaches us. Human thought and the Divine can and do comingle in recollected souls. However, our natural self filters these thoughts so it’s possible … even probable … to misinterpret the meaning. If it motivates us to love (regardless the actual source) that’s obviously a good thing … but we should stop short of thinking “God told me such and such” … especially if it leads us to some significant course of action. Further discernment would be required in that case.

St. John also describes “touches” and these are more reliable than what I describe above. The basic difference is that a “touch” comes from out of the blue (ie. we’re not thinking about the matter at hand) and it causes a pronounced “rememberence” of God that leaves a deep impression in the soul. It can not be doubted … and, most important, leads to growth in virtue.

Hope this helps,
Dave

 

[Neil_Anthony]

Now, there have been other times when I have asked God, particularly on this journey into the Catholic Church: “Do you want me to become Catholic?” and would receive a Bible verse such as "God does not dwell in temples built by hands."

I took that to mean that God didn’t need to dwell in Catholic Churches or Cathedrals, that we had no need for Eucharistic adoration, etc. because God dwells in the hearts of men, not in great cathedrals, temples, or churches as in the Old Testament.

That time around, it felt nigh clear that I had heard from God, not wanting to act on it because I wanted to continue on my journey into the Church. Now, if that was from God, then the Catholic Church was a lie; if it wasn’t, then neither was my recent locution of supernatural origin; for it took place in nigh the same fashion as the above…

Sorry if this is a bit off topic, but I have an alternate interpretation of what God may have been telling you.

Perhaps God just wanted to point out to you that faith is all about knowing Him, and that joining one church or another won’t achieve that for you on its own. It didn’t necessarily mean that you shouldn’t join the catholic church, but was perhaps trying to get you to see that church membership isn’t the end, its just a means to an end.

 

[DBT]

Right after I heard the words “be healed” I experienced a great peace, to the point where I tried to get my mind to overanalyze, but would not happen; I just sort of was in a state of calm and tranquility… It was only a few hours later when I began to overanalyze, that my peace began to be disturbed.

Well that’s what locutions do … they produce an “effect” … in your case a sense of peace. The “after-effects” aren’t surprising either for they are the work of the imagination which causes us to doubt and analyze things.

Perhaps the best piece of advice (beyond consulting with a SD): Thank God and move on

St. John of the Cross gives all sorts of warnings regarding these type of communications not the least of which is indulging our tendency to analyze. The devil’s chief tactic in these matters is to rob us of our peace … and that’s what happens when we dwell on things. This is a very subtle type of imperfection we should seek to avoid because it removes us from the presence of God all the while letting us think we’re wrapped up in holy things. We end up talking to ourselves in internal monologue “about God” rather than “talking to God” in interior dialogue. There’s a world of difference between the two. And that, in a nutshell, is the subtle, destructive fruit of our imagination. As St. John would advise, when these thoughts come to us … let them go and return to loving God. The locution (if real) has already accomplished it’s purpose … to give you peace at a moment when you needed it.

Another way of saying this is the Gospel advice to the disciples in the Transfiguration not to try and pitch our tents. Revisiting these things in our mind is how we pitch our tent … it is a clinging we should resist.

So do your best to love God in the here and now. The only true test of authenticity is if you see yourself growing in holiness and virtue in the wake of this event. Growth over time is what you should be looking for.

Peace,
Dave

 

[Joseph73]

I have read that, when we receive such a locution we should not try to hold on to it and analyze it but rather let it wash over us and then move on. If we try to pull it out of the spiritual realm and into the “intellectual” realm we will lose its deeper meaning and significance (probably by the inevitable analyzing that we are all prone to).
If we are properly oriented to God in Love, as I described above, Loving locutions (from God) will “stick” to the soul while unloving (ungodly) ones will not and will be rejected.

Thank you so much for this post, James. What a huge help as to what to do with successive locutions.