Question about marriage and dating

[chero23]

One of my best friends has the following dilemma. I really couldn’t give him the right answer so I hope you guys can help me guide him.

My friend is starting to come back to church, he dated a non catholic girl for almost 3 years but unfortunately due to their differences they decided to part ways. When he broke up with his girlfriend he met this lovely girl at work. A girl who is hard working, and gave a lot of support to my friend, way more than his previous relationship in shorter amount of time.

This is the dilemma, she has 2 daughters, she got pregnant when she was 16 and had her at 17. She married through the justice of the peace after her first daughter was born and the next year she had her 2nd daughter. In 2009 her and her husband separated but were not divorced. She has not divorced him bc she wants him to get his residency card plus wait 2 years so it does not get revoked.

I know that a marriage in civil court is not considered valid, but my friend does not know if 1) he should still date her, and (2) wait for her to get a divorce from her husband, which is the father of the girl.

Any got insight would be greatly appreciated.

 

[underacloud]

I know that a marriage in civil court is not considered valid

It can be valid. If the girl was not Catholic, the Church would recognise it as a valid marriage and your friend would not be free to date her.

If she was Catholic at the time, then it is more complicated and would need to be reviewed.

Your friend should find out what he can from this girl about her marriage and then meet with his priest to discuss.

 

[Irishmom2]

In 2009 her and her husband separated but were not divorced. She has not divorced him bc she wants him to get his residency card plus wait 2 years so it does not get revoked.

Your friend should not be dating a married woman. She is not free to be dating no matter how the story is spun. He should end it now before he gets in too deep emotionally.

 

[on_the_hill]

Yeah…he ought not trifle with married women. It’s a really, really bad idea. She won’t divorce her husband because she wants him to get his residency card?

If you have any pull with your friend at all–tell him to drop it. Tell him you’ll rent a billboard that announces to the world, “I TOLD YOU SO” when the whole thing collapses into a giant pit of quicksand and he gets dragged into it.

 

[pianistclare]

Your friend should not be dating a married woman. She is not free to be dating no matter how the story is spun. He should end it now before he gets in too deep emotionally.

Exactly. And getting that elusive green card is harder than she believes.
Nothing good can come of this “partnership”.
He should bid her farewell and good luck.

 

[fencersmother]

It would be immoral, too, for her to wait on that elusive green card if she is planning to divorce him, and maybe illegal if they are planning to defraud the government.

This young lady, no matter how lovely, sounds like she is willing to skirt several very important moral issues.

Perhaps your friend should wait a while.

 

[Edmundus1581]

I agree with the previous responses.

• The marriage in a civil ceremony is presumed valid (but may be annulled if there is a case - which there is likely to be, given the story)
• This girl may be lovely, but it’s her choice to remain married, so that keeps her out of bounds for other men.

I also note that your friend is returning to the Church, and has recently split up from a long term relationship.

I would advise him to avoid dating entirely while he is on a new journey with his faith and singleness.

 

[edwest2]

Dating.

Marriage.

The scenario in post one is not good. A friend of mine dated a married woman who was not concerned about a green card but kept promising to divorce her husband, and that went on and on. Finally, they started talking about her divorce and their possible marriage. In the end, she didn’t get a divorce and she wanted my friend to finance her fantasy dream life - totally unrealistic. My friend broke it off.

Getting to know a single person is so important, especially today. So important.

Ed

 

[chero23]

Your friend should not be dating a married woman. She is not free to be dating no matter how the story is spun. He should end it now before he gets in too deep emotionally.

She told him to give her 1 year 18 months then she would file for the divorce. I did tell my friend, you went through a long relationship and having to wait 2 maybe 3 years seems like a long time.
I have met the girl and you can tell she has a good heart unfortunately she did get pregnant at a young age.

 

[chero23]

Yeah…he ought not trifle with married women. It’s a really, really bad idea. She won’t divorce her husband because she wants him to get his residency card?

If you have any pull with your friend at all–tell him to drop it. Tell him you’ll rent a billboard that announces to the world, “I TOLD YOU SO” when the whole thing collapses into a giant pit of quicksand and he gets dragged into it.

I think that he sees in this girl the backbone that he wished he had in his previous relationship. Yes the girl has 2 kids, and I’m just trying to make sure I have the right words to tell him especially religiously so that he knows as well as me that it’s for the best.

 

[chero23]

I agree with the previous responses.

• The marriage in a civil ceremony is presumed valid (but may be annulled if there is a case - which there is likely to be, given the story)
• This girl may be lovely, but it’s her choice to remain married, so that keeps her out of bounds for other men.

I also note that your friend is returning to the Church, and has recently split up from a long term relationship.

I would advise him to avoid dating entirely while he is on a new journey with his faith and singleness.

So based on the story she could get an annulment in civil court which would then be ok for her to be married in the Catholic Church?

 

[chero23]

Yeah…he ought not trifle with married women. It’s a really, really bad idea. She won’t divorce her husband because she wants him to get his residency card?

If you have any pull with your friend at all–tell him to drop it. Tell him you’ll rent a billboard that announces to the world, “I TOLD YOU SO” when the whole thing collapses into a giant pit of quicksand and he gets dragged into it.

The reason why she wants to wait 2 years to divorce him by later on next month he will get his residency card. If she files for a divorce then he would lose that card.

He has told her divorce him, she says, it’s not about me, it’s about my daughters, his mom has spent thousands of dollars.

I know it’s a little frustrating for my friend since the father of the girls has been a drunk recently and been very selfish in the past 5 months since he got here from Central America. He has told her, he won’t change why not divorce him and start your life, this is your way to make things right.

Her response is that a lot of people like her daughters and his family emotions are involved. I know my friend told her, what about my feelings, do mine matter?

 

[Edmundus1581]

So based on the story she could get an annulment in civil court which would then be ok for her to be married in the Catholic Church?

Not quite. The civil marriage is recognised as valid by the Catholic Church, and divorce from a civil marriage does not make one free to marry within the Church.

So, to remarry in the Catholic Church she would need to get an annulment from that marriage, from a Catholic marriage tribunal.

However on first appearances, the case looks quite strong, as she was pregnant at 16 and married him after the child was born.

 

[chero23]

Not quite. The civil marriage is recognised as valid by the Catholic Church, and divorce from a civil marriage does not make one free to marry within the Church.

So, to remarry in the Catholic Church she would need to get an annulment from that marriage, from a Catholic marriage tribunal.

However on first appearances, the case looks quite strong, as she was pregnant at 16 and married him after the child was born.

Quite strong for it to be annulled and her be granted to marry in the church?

 

[Catholic1954]

Your friend and the young lady need to make an appointment with a priest to discuss this; I’m thinking he cannot marry her until she gets an annulment from the Church, but only a wise and holy priest can get all the facts and advise them.

 

[MJJean]

If either the woman or her husband were Baptized catholic, the civil marriage would be valid legally and invalid in the Church. Once the divorce is final, she could apply for a Lack of Form annulment because all catholics are required to marry in the Church or seek dispensation to marry elsewhere. It would be a simple process.

If neither were catholic when they married, then the marriage is valid legally and presumed valid in the Church until proven otherwise. To prove the marriage invalid, the woman would have to divorce and then apply for an annulment. The process can take anywhere from a year to much longer depending on their local Tribunal and an annulment is not guaranteed. I do think she has a solid case, though, given the circumstances described.

I understand that this woman wants her children’s father to reside in the US where the children live. I understand that she is lonely and seeks companionship. However, she is a legally married woman and her marriage is presumed valid in the Church unless she divorces, seeks annulment, and the annulment is given.

She has a husband in name only who may be heading toward alcoholism if he’s not already there, two children to raise, and a life to get in order. She shouldn’t be dating anyone until she gets her life in general and marital situation in particular sorted out.

 

[ChurchSoldier]

Your friend should not be dating a married woman. She is not free to be dating no matter how the story is spun. He should end it now before he gets in too deep emotionally.

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[marymary1975]

This girl is married so no, he should not be dating a married woman. And even if she divorce him, if she was baptized catholic she still would need an annulment. Also, the story screams red flag to me everywhere. If she says that the father is a drunk and selfish and irresponsible why in the world she is trying to get him a residency? I’d be more concern about the risk of him kidnapping the kids to Central America so why would you want such a bad person to stay in the US? I think your friend needs to stop seeing her ASAP.

 

[chero23]

If either the woman or her husband were Baptized catholic, the civil marriage would be valid legally and invalid in the Church. Once the divorce is final, she could apply for a Lack of Form annulment because all catholics are required to marry in the Church or seek dispensation to marry elsewhere. It would be a simple process.

If neither were catholic when they married, then the marriage is valid legally and presumed valid in the Church until proven otherwise. To prove the marriage invalid, the woman would have to divorce and then apply for an annulment. The process can take anywhere from a year to much longer depending on their local Tribunal and an annulment is not guaranteed. I do think she has a solid case, though, given the circumstances described.

I understand that this woman wants her children’s father to reside in the US where the children live. I understand that she is lonely and seeks companionship. However, she is a legally married woman and her marriage is presumed valid in the Church unless she divorces, seeks annulment, and the annulment is given.

She has a husband in name only who may be heading toward alcoholism if he’s not already there, two children to raise, and a life to get in order. She shouldn’t be dating anyone until she gets her life in general and marital situation in particular sorted out.

She is catholic, I haven’t asked my friend what faith the father of the girl is.

So since she is Catholic and is married legally not by the Church, she is still a married woman right? Therefore my friend should avoid the situation due to the fact that he could be breaking 3 commandments by being with her?

My friend has told her, divorce him now, I know you have invested time and money but this guy is not showing interest in the girls none less you, why are you doing that. She told him bc of the time invested, in the money that I had to pay bc of his IRS debt.

 

[chero23]

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That’s what I fear, I know this girl has been good, he recently had surgery and she was there with him all day.

His father recently had a birthday and he took her, and his family loved her. Its just one of those things that as a friend and as a human your like, why do people get married young or why get pregnant at such a young age.