Question about Mary on the Solemnity of the Assumption

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fisherman_carl

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Today is her Solemnity The question I have is why did Mary die at all? The tradition I have heard was that she died and was later Assumed into heaven. Although I have heard some say we dont actually know for sure that she died. If death is a consequence of sin and Mary never sinned then why would she have to die? If she is the new Eve then wouldnt she also remain in a state of never experiencing death. Eve died because she sinned; for God said they would die if they disobeyed him.
 
fisherman_carl said:
Today is her Solemnity The question I have is why did Mary die at all? The tradition I have heard was that she died and was later Assumed into heaven. Although I have heard some say we dont actually know for sure that she died. If death is a consequence of sin and Mary never sinned then why would she have to die? If she is the new Eve then wouldnt she also remain in a state of never experiencing death. Eve died because she sinned; for God said they would die if they disobeyed him.
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Chirst conquered death by his own death. To pass from this life is not the end, not the death that was prior to Christ’s crucifixion. In our bishops’ homily this morning, he said that “death” and “dying” are secular terms, not Christian terms. Christians know that there is no more death. That is why Mary is said to have “fallen asleep”. This is the same term used for St. Stephen when he was martyred, “then he fell asleep”.

Mary fell asleep in the Lord and was resurrected on the third day and assumed into heaven. Why? Because this is the path to salvation that Jesus himself laid for us by his own death and resurrection. If Mary did not go through this, is she trully saved? And, are we?
 
Well according to the homily said at my church this morning…

Mary was assumed into Heaven, body and soul. She did this because she had no sin. She didn’t have to face the sting of death and decay. So she “fell asleep” and was, in a way, carried to Heaven body and soul. She did not know sin and that is why she did not feel the sting of death or decay because she didn’t have sin. Immaculate heart of Mary, pray for us now and at the hour of our death.
 
fisherman_carl said:
Today is her Solemnity The question I have is why did Mary die at all? The tradition I have heard was that she died and was later Assumed into heaven. Although I have heard some say we dont actually know for sure that she died. If death is a consequence of sin and Mary never sinned then why would she have to die? If she is the new Eve then wouldnt she also remain in a state of never experiencing death. Eve died because she sinned; for God said they would die if they disobeyed him.
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There are already 2 threads currently running on this subject. You should jump into one of them.

The Catholic Church does NOT teach that Mary died before being assumed.
Catholics are free to believe she died or did not die first.
 
thistle said:
There are already 2 threads currently running on this subject. You should jump into one of them.

The Catholic Church does NOT teach that Mary died before being assumed.
Catholics are free to believe she died or did not die first.
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Father Z talks about it on his blog today as well.
 
vjnycguy said:
Well according to the homily said at my church this morning…

Mary was assumed into Heaven, body and soul. She did this because she had no sin. She didn’t have to face the sting of death and decay. So she “fell asleep” and was, in a way, carried to Heaven body and soul. She did not know sin and that is why she did not feel the sting of death or decay because she didn’t have sin. Immaculate heart of Mary, pray for us now and at the hour of our death.
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I think this is the modern error that is detached from tradition.

a. No one is facing death as Christ has conquered death by dying on the cross
b. Decay on the body happens only, according to Jewish belief at that time, on the 4th day. That is why Christ resurrected on the 3rd day, and that Mary was resurrected on the 3rd day as well. To show power over death and corruption, Christ resurrected Lazarus on the 4th day. That is why the people told him that opening the tomb would create a stink, because his body was already corrupting.
c. Falling asleep is the term used for those who pass away in the early Church. Read Acts 7 where St. Stephen was martyred, it ends with, “he fell asleep”. Did he just fell unconscious? Of course not. Is St. Stephen free from sin like Mary? Of course not. Yet he fell asleep like all those other Christians. Death no longer has power over us, so we do not die. We sleep and await resurrection when we will be awaken by our Lord.
 
ConstantineTG said:
I think this is the modern error that is detached from tradition.

a. No one is facing death as Christ has conquered death by dying on the cross
b. Decay on the body happens only, according to Jewish belief at that time, on the 4th day. That is why Christ resurrected on the 3rd day, and that Mary was resurrected on the 3rd day as well. To show power over death and corruption, Christ resurrected Lazarus on the 4th day. That is why the people told him that opening the tomb would create a stink, because his body was already corrupting.
c. Falling asleep is the term used for those who pass away in the early Church. Read Acts 7 where St. Stephen was martyred, it ends with, “he fell asleep”. Did he just fell unconscious? Of course not. Is St. Stephen free from sin like Mary? Of course not. Yet he fell asleep like all those other Christians. Death no longer has power over us, so we do not die. We sleep and await resurrection when we will be awaken by our Lord.
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But decay does happen earlier than the 3rd day. Cellular breakdown starts I believe with brain cells within 3-7 minutes of death. That is still a corruption of the body.
 
Tantum_ergo said:
But decay does happen earlier than the 3rd day. Cellular breakdown starts I believe with brain cells within 3-7 minutes of death. That is still a corruption of the body.
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Then transubstantiation must happen.

Christ says, “This is my body” and it is.

Christ says, “This is my Mother’s body” and it is.

Etc.

I’m only half joking. 🙂

-Tim-
 
ConstantineTG said:
Chirst conquered death by his own death. To pass from this life is not the end, not the death that was prior to Christ’s crucifixion. In our bishops’ homily this morning, he said that “death” and “dying” are secular terms, not Christian terms. Christians know that there is no more death. That is why Mary is said to have “fallen asleep”. This is the same term used for St. Stephen when he was martyred, “then he fell asleep”.

Mary fell asleep in the Lord and was resurrected on the third day and assumed into heaven. Why? Because this is the path to salvation that Jesus himself laid for us by his own death and resurrection. If Mary did not go through this, is she trully saved? And, are we?
Click to expand...
Dormition of the Theotokos :o

In the Eastern Rite of course 😉
 
Tantum_ergo said:
But decay does happen earlier than the 3rd day. Cellular breakdown starts I believe with brain cells within 3-7 minutes of death. That is still a corruption of the body.
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That is why I said that is the Jewish belief.
 
ConstantineTG said:
In many instances in the past, there have been instances where today’s feast is called Dormition by Western saints.
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Do we really need three threads on the same topic running concurrently?

If any moderators are reading this could the three threads be merged into one?
 
fisherman_carl said:
Today is her Solemnity The question I have is why did Mary die at all? The tradition I have heard was that she died and was later Assumed into heaven. Although I have heard some say we dont actually know for sure that she died. If death is a consequence of sin and Mary never sinned then why would she have to die? If she is the new Eve then wouldnt she also remain in a state of never experiencing death. Eve died because she sinned; for God said they would die if they disobeyed him.
Click to expand...
I thought O Most Holy Mother never died before rising to Heaven, :gopray:
 
ConstantineTG said:
Chirst conquered death by his own death. To pass from this life is not the end, not the death that was prior to Christ’s crucifixion. In our bishops’ homily this morning, he said that “death” and “dying” are secular terms, not Christian terms. Christians know that there is no more death. That is why Mary is said to have “fallen asleep”. This is the same term used for St. Stephen when he was martyred, “then he fell asleep”.

Mary fell asleep in the Lord and was resurrected on the third day and assumed into heaven. Why? Because this is the path to salvation that Jesus himself laid for us by his own death and resurrection. If Mary did not go through this, is she trully saved? And, are we?
Click to expand...
When we speak of bodily death this still occurs even as Christians. So I am not sure what you mean by saying death is a secular term. Go dig up a grave and you will see that the body is not sleeping but is dead and decaying. If you want to call that sleeping then have fun waking them up. :-)… I am not sure what it means to say they are sleeping instead of dead. Jesus said that once to a little girl that died and brought her back to life. Is it just a term of endearment that demonstrates Jesus’ power over death to bring someone back to life?
 
thistle said:
Do we really need three threads on the same topic running concurrently?

If any moderators are reading this could the three threads be merged into one?
Click to expand...
why does it bother you so much? I dont see the other ones where are they?
 
thistle said:
Do we really need three threads on the same topic running concurrently?

If any moderators are reading this could the three threads be merged into one?
Click to expand...
Why are you asking me? I didn’t start the threads nor do I have the ability to merge them.
 
fisherman_carl said:
When we speak of bodily death this still occurs even as Christians. So I am not sure what you mean by saying death is a secular term. Go dig up a grave and you will see that the body is not sleeping but is dead and decaying. If you want to call that sleeping then have fun waking them up. :-)… I am not sure what it means to say they are sleeping instead of dead. Jesus said that once to a little girl that died and brought her back to life. Is it just a term of endearment that demonstrates Jesus’ power over death to bring someone back to life?
Click to expand...
Surely the early Christians didn’t miss the fact that the body still is lifeless and suffered corruption. But regardless, everyone knows that there will be a general resurrection at the end of time. That is why death is no longer considered to be the end.

It is not a term of endearment, but rather it is a reflection of the reality that we are now all destined for resurrection at the end of time.
 
ConstantineTG said:
Surely the early Christians didn’t miss the fact that the body still is lifeless and suffered corruption. But regardless, everyone knows that there will be a general resurrection at the end of time. That is why death is no longer considered to be the end.

It is not a term of endearment, but rather it is a reflection of the reality that we are now all destined for resurrection at the end of time.
Click to expand...
Are u saying death is no longer considered the end for just Christians or for everyone?
 
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