Question About Mary ??

[pinoyjones]

The biggest proof that Mary had no other children was the scripture when he was hanging from the cross. Jesus said to John to behold his mother, he was not only giving his mother to the Church (represented by John), but telling John to take care of his mother. This was the responsibility of the next of kin to take care of her and if he were not to give his mother to his brother it would have been extremely rude and disrespectful. As we know Jesus was always respectful, especially to his family. By giving John his mother is proof that there was no next of kin.

 

[pinoyjones]

If this was true about the only tradition that is apostolic is found in scripture, then the whole doctrine of the trinity would not be true. Scripture does not say anything about the trinity. When the angel appeared to Mary he stated she was “full of grace”. None of us living are full of grace until our death(hopefully). We have to look at other writings in the early century that may not be inspired, but give us a good understanding of the teachings of the early church, but we must be careful in gnostic books. The Bible could not hold All the teachings of the early Church

 

[kujo313]

How many times do you say ‘Amen’ or ‘Alleluia’ huh? Probably more than you could possibly count. Why is the Hail Mary vain repetition and endless repetitions of ‘Amen’ or ‘Praise Jesus’ aren’t??

Please, for love of the God we both worship, pay us the same courtesy and stop accusing us of worshipping Mary!

Because “Praise Jesus” is what we’re supposed to be saying! In the end, all crowns will be placed at His feet. Every knee will bow and every tongue shall confess that Jesus IS Lord! He is the reason the disciples faced death without fear. He is the reason they preached the Gospel. He is the reason that people in other countries today are being killed.
WHY would you want to veer towards anybody else?
Instead of repeating something about Mary 53 times, why not quote John 3:16?
Seeing God through Mary? Why not do what your own priest says during Mass:

“Through Him, with Him, in Him. In the unity of the Holy Spirit. All glory and honor are Yours Almighty Father! Forever and ever!”

Seeing God through, and thanks to, Jesus. Ain’t that enough?

 

[kujo313]

*]QUOTE=guanophore;2343091]I think what matters more here kujo is the rejection of the teaching authority that God appointed for His Body, the Church. If it is not this dogma, it would be another. What matters is the rejection of the teaching of Jesus.

What if the teaching of the “church” is wrong? Paul rebuked Peter. The “teachings of Jesus” are in red letters.
*]QUOTE=guanophore;2343091]

Did you not realize they were written by Catholics?

You assume they was Catholics? Maybe they was Christians.

*]QUOTE=guanophore;2343091]

A person cannot do one without the other, kujo. That is why it is so critical to reject the teachings of Jesus. Jesus became man, the first of many brothers. If we are “in Christ”, then He is our brother, and Mary is our mother, because we are adopted. When you see Jesus and kneel at His feet, you will be kneeling next to Mary, so why wait?

Actually, believers who “overcome” shall be next to Jesus. God is no respecter of persons. He’s the God of “whosoever”. You are not ignorant of what Jesus said of “who is my mother and who are my brothers?” I don’t have to repeat it for you.

 

[LilyM]

Because “Praise Jesus” is what we’re supposed to be saying! In the end, all crowns will be placed at His feet. Every knee will bow and every tongue shall confess that Jesus IS Lord! He is the reason the disciples faced death without fear. He is the reason they preached the Gospel. He is the reason that people in other countries today are being killed.
WHY would you want to veer towards anybody else?
Instead of repeating something about Mary 53 times, why not quote John 3:16?
Seeing God through Mary? Why not do what your own priest says during Mass:

“Through Him, with Him, in Him. In the unity of the Holy Spirit. All glory and honor are Yours Almighty Father! Forever and ever!”

Seeing God through, and thanks to, Jesus. Ain’t that enough?

Jesus sent his own angel to say ‘Hail Mary’ to her. Elizabeth said ‘Blessed are you among women’. Jesus HIMSELF called her ‘mother’ - many more than 53 times, I can assure you!

How can you call yourself his follower and not take his mother for your own? It’s incomprehensible. He SAID ‘love one another as I have loved you’. He loved Mary as his mother - so must we.

If the words ‘Hail Mary’ are good enough for angels to say, and the word ‘Mother’ is good enough for our Lord himself to say to her, who are you to DARE not to treat her as He did?

 

[kujo313]

I have been readng his posts, and I think it really is an issue.

I just see Jesus standing there showing me His wounds that He got because He loves me. Then I see you not standing with Jesus, but with Mary saying “what shall I do?” when she already TOLD you what to do and you’re not doing it.

She told you “do what He says” and you do it because SHE said so and not because Jesus said so.

If you call yourself a disciple of Mary, then you should obey the words of John the Baptist: “He (Jesus) must increase while I must decrease.” All of John’s disciples left him for Jesus.

Meanwhile, if the image of Mary appears on another grilled cheese sandwich, are you going to travel as many miles as it takes just to recite a rosary outside the kitchen that houses the image?

“Pilgrims” like that are rediculous.

 

[LilyM]

I just see Jesus standing there showing me His wounds that He got because He loves me. Then I see you not standing with Jesus, but with Mary saying “what shall I do?” when she already TOLD you what to do and you’re not doing it.

She told you “do what He says” and you do it because SHE said so and not because Jesus said so.

If you call yourself a disciple of Mary, then you should obey the words of John the Baptist: “He (Jesus) must increase while I must decrease.” All of John’s disciples left him for Jesus.

Meanwhile, if the image of Mary appears on another grilled cheese sandwich, are you going to travel as many miles as it takes just to recite a rosary outside the kitchen that houses the image?

“Pilgrims” like that are rediculous.

Yes they are - no-one on this thread would so much as think of doing such a thing. We agree with you about the grilled cheese sandwich, as you’d notice if you weren’t too blinded by irrational and venomous hatred of … don’t know what. Women? Mothers? Mary in particular?

Now what exactly IS it that Jesus told us to do? Did he tell us to love one another AS HE has loved us? Yes. Did he COMMAND us to honour our Mothers? YES. Did he command us to imitate Him? YES. Did HE love and honour His mother Mary? Of course - to suggest otherwise means He broke the commandments and is a sinner - impossible.

So must WE honour HIS mother if we are to genuinely be His followers? AB-SO-LUTELY! Do you think he asked her for favours? Indisputably. Did he depend on her for life itself? Again, AB-SO-LUTELY! For years of his life! Should we ask her for favours? OF COURSE!!! Can we too depend on her help? AB-SO-LUTELY!

 

[LilyM]

I just see Jesus standing there showing me His wounds that He got because He loves me. Then I see you not standing with Jesus, but with Mary saying “what shall I do?” when she already TOLD you what to do and you’re not doing it.

She told you “do what He says” and you do it because SHE said so and not because Jesus said so.
.

And what did HE do? HE listened to her request - even though it wasn’t proper time for his miracle - and HE did what she asked of Him. So there’s no question that deference to her pleases Him too - who deferred to her before anyone else did!

He increase? HE was the last of all and servant of all. Including, beyond a shadow of a doubt, His mother Mary too. So must we also imitate Him by serving her and listening to her and honouring her. This is what pleases Him more than glory for Himself!

 

[kujo313]

Yes they are - no-one on this thread would so much as think of doing such a thing. We agree with you about the grilled cheese sandwich, as you’d notice if you weren’t too blinded by irrational and venomous hatred of … don’t know what. Women? Mothers? Mary in particular?

Now what exactly IS it that Jesus told us to do? Did he tell us to love one another AS HE has loved us? Yes. Did he COMMAND us to honour our Mothers? YES. Did he command us to imitate Him? YES. Did HE love and honour His mother Mary? Of course - to suggest otherwise means He broke the commandments and is a sinner - impossible.

So must WE honour HIS mother if we are to genuinely be His followers? AB-SO-LUTELY! Do you think he asked her for favours? Indisputably. Did he depend on her for life itself? Again, AB-SO-LUTELY! For years of his life! Should we ask her for favours? OF COURSE!!! Can we too depend on her help? AB-SO-LUTELY!

Open your Bible here. WHAT favor did He ask of her? Actually, in John chapter 2, Jesus called her “woman”. I don’t know about you, but if I called my mother “woman”, she’d back-hand me with her 19-pound purse and have me airborne.
HOW COULD He call His own mother by a title?
Many times Jesus said for us to “come onto Me”? It was the Catholic “church” who set aside all of that and looked closer into Mary.
Sounds like you either don’t get it or have ADHD.

 

[kujo313]

And what did HE do? HE listened to her request - even though it wasn’t proper time for his miracle - and HE did what she asked of Him. So there’s no question that deference to her pleases Him too - who deferred to her before anyone else did!

He increase? HE was the last of all and servant of all. Including, beyond a shadow of a doubt, His mother Mary too. So must we also imitate Him by serving her and listening to her and honouring her. This is what pleases Him more than glory for Himself!

John chapter 2. Jesus called Mary “woman”. WHAT KIND of kid says that to his own mother? That was not respecting Mary as His mother, but rather a title.

 

[LilyM]

John chapter 2. Jesus called Mary “woman”. WHAT KIND of kid says that to his own mother? That was not respecting Mary as His mother, but rather a title.

In public! No man in that place and time called their mother ‘mum’ or ‘mother’ in public. What do you think he did in private? Of course He called Her ‘mother’ and ‘mum’.

More importantly HE DID WHAT SHE ASKED OF HIM! What kind of son DOES what his mother asks like that? His actions speak more eloquently of His respect for her than any words could.

 

[LilyM]

Open your Bible here. WHAT favor did He ask of her? Actually, in John chapter 2, Jesus called her “woman”. I don’t know about you, but if I called my mother “woman”, she’d back-hand me with her 19-pound purse and have me airborne.
HOW COULD He call His own mother by a title?
Many times Jesus said for us to “come onto Me”? It was the Catholic “church” who set aside all of that and looked closer into Mary.
Sounds like you either don’t get it or have ADHD.

He was her babe-in-arms! You think He never asked her for food, drink, clothing, toys, a million other things that children do ask of their mothers? And did he not ask her from the Cross to look after John as much as he asked John to look after her?

And woman was a title of UTMOST respect, perfectly fine for any man to use of his mother in public. You don’t understand a single thing about Jesus if you think he could disobey the commandments by saying anything disrespectful to her or about her, in public or private!

The word didn’t have the derogatory meaning it has for us. No way she would have backhanded him - probably would have been proud of him for being such a well-brought-up RESPECTFUL son.

 

[kujo313]

In public! No man in that place and time called their mother ‘mum’ or ‘mother’ in public. What do you think he did in private? Of course He called Her ‘mother’ and ‘mum’.

More importantly HE DID WHAT SHE ASKED OF HIM! What kind of son DOES what his mother asks like that? His actions speak more eloquently of His respect for her than any words could.

You make it sound like He looked to her for her approval. Did Mary ask Jesus to do anything else? No. She told the servants to do what Jesus says to do. Mary didn’t approach Jesus again saying “this guy wants his sight” or “you need more food to feed these people.”

Jesus said that He was doing the work of His Father and that He only did what His Father told Him to do.

We’re talking Godly and Spiritual things here, not flesh.

 

[kujo313]

He was her babe-in-arms! You think He never asked her for food, drink, clothing, toys, a million other things that children do ask of their mothers? And did he not ask her from the Cross to look after John as much as he asked John to look after her?

And woman was a title of UTMOST respect, perfectly fine for any man to use of his mother in public. You don’t understand a single thing about Jesus if you think he could disobey the commandments by saying anything disrespectful to her or about her, in public or private!

The word didn’t have the derogatory meaning it has for us. No way she would have backhanded him - probably would have been proud of him for being such a well-brought-up RESPECTFUL son.

Read #410. Jesus never looked for the approval of Mary to do anything. He was doing God’s work (John 4:34). All throughout the Gospel of John, we see the word “Father”. Jesus was only doing what His Father told Him to do.

 

[LilyM]

You make it sound like He looked to her for her approval. Did Mary ask Jesus to do anything else? No. She told the servants to do what Jesus says to do. Mary didn’t approach Jesus again saying “this guy wants his sight” or “you need more food to feed these people.”

And you know this how, exactly? You can be sure she would have approached him again - after all,he listened to her in Cana - of course she would continue requesting after he did what she asked there! :yup:

Jesus said that He was doing the work of His Father and that He only did what His Father told Him to do.

Note what He did directly after He said this in the Temple - He didn’t stay in Jerusalem teaching and cut off all ties with Mary and Joseph. Instead He went back with them to Nazareth and subjected himself to them. His actions always speak volumes about His attitude - which attitude we must take for our own.

The bottom line - fourth commandment - His father told Him to honour His mother!!! Jesus kept all the commandments perfectly. So He honoured Mary superlatively. So if we would be perfect followers of Him we must too!

 

[guanophore]

I think what matters more here kujo is the rejection of the teaching authority that God appointed for His Body, the Church. If it is not this dogma, it would be another. What matters is the rejection of the teaching of Jesus.

What if the teaching of the “church” is wrong?

Then Jesus is faithless, or impotent, that He was unable to keep his promise to remain with His diciples until the end of the age, and to preserve them in all truth.

Paul rebuked Peter. The “teachings of Jesus” are in red letters.

kujo, the reason you have those red letters is because of Catholics. Catholic monks and priests gave their lives to preserve God’s Holy Word. They sat for hours painstakingly copying it by hand. At the time, there was no punctuation, no verses, no 'red letters.

The teachings of Jesus are found in the WHOLE Bible from the beginning of the revelation of His grace in Genesis to Revelation. The teaching of Jesus is also found in the infallible teaching of His Church, which He has guided into all truth.

Did you not realize they were written by Catholics?

You assume they was Catholics? Maybe they was Christians.

Perhaps your hatred of Catholicism is rooted in your lack of knowledge of history, as well as your craving for personal experience of the divine. There WERE no other Christians, kujo. All the Christians were Catholic for the first 1000 years of the Church.

A person cannot do one without the other, kujo. That is why it is so critical when one rejects the teachings of Jesus. Jesus became man, the first of many brothers. If we are “in Christ”, then He is our brother, and Mary is our mother, because we are adopted. When you see Jesus and kneel at His feet, you will be kneeling next to Mary, so why wait?

Actually, believers who “overcome” shall be next to Jesus. God is no respecter of persons. He’s the God of “whosoever”. You are not ignorant of what Jesus said of “who is my mother and who are my brothers?” I don’t have to repeat it for you.

But you don’t deny that if you are “in Christ” then you are part of His heavenly family, adopted by the Father, and then Mary is your mother too. You are called upon to honor your Mother and your Father.

 

[guanophore]

I just see Jesus standing there showing me His wounds that He got because He loves me. Then I see you not standing with Jesus, but with Mary saying “what shall I do?” when she already TOLD you what to do and you’re not doing it.

It might be a more effective prayer, kujo, if you could see your separated brethren standing with Jesus also. If you are going to pray using images, that is fine, but it is more proper to imagine things as Jesus would want them to be.

In either case, this is a very judgemental statement to make. You are assuming here that I do nto stand with Jesus, or that Mary is not also standing next to Jesus. Who are you, oh man, to judge your brother?

She told you “do what He says” and you do it because SHE said so and not because Jesus said so.

You can’t have it both ways, kujo. Here you are admitting that I actually DO what Mary says, which is “do whatever He tells you”. He tells me to honor my father and my mother, and I do that. You are also making a false distinction between what Mary says,and what Jesus wants. There is no dichotomoy there. You are further pronoucing judgement upon me, assuming that I am not obedient to Jesus. How did it happen that you acquired the attributes of God, and are now able to look into the hearts of others, and know the motives of those you have never even met?

If you call yourself a disciple of Mary, then you should obey the words of John the Baptist: “He (Jesus) must increase while I must decrease.” All of John’s disciples left him for Jesus.

I have never called myself a “disciple” of Mary. If I did, it would change nothing, because following Mary down the path would lead me to Jesus anyway. Have you forgotten the words of St. Paul? " For you yourselves know how you ought to imitate us;"
2 Thess 3:6-7

Imitation of Mary, or anyone who is united with Christ, will eventually lead a disciple to Christ. there is no distinction.

Meanwhile, if the image of Mary appears on another grilled cheese sandwich, are you going to travel as many miles as it takes just to recite a rosary outside the kitchen that houses the image?

“Pilgrims” like that are rediculous.

Again you are judging others that are different from yourself. I must confess, I am mystified by these images, and the people that chase them. I have no personal desire to go to Fatima, or any of the other shrines. However, if a fleeting image can draw someonre one closer to God, then I commend them on their journey. Many people do not make time to pray every day at all, so if they a pick up and go on a pilgrimage, more power to them. WHat mystifies me is why you are so hostile and judgemental about it! If it does not appeal to you, don’t go! If the rosary is not a devotion that appeals to you, don’t use it! Why berate others that do?

 

[guanophore]

Open your Bible here. WHAT favor did He ask of her? Actually, in John chapter 2, Jesus called her “woman”. I don’t know about you, but if I called my mother “woman”, she’d back-hand me with her 19-pound purse and have me airborne.
HOW COULD He call His own mother by a title?
Many times Jesus said for us to “come onto Me”? It was the Catholic “church” who set aside all of that and looked closer into Mary.
Sounds like you either don’t get it or have ADHD.

Seems like you are getting frustrated with us, kujo,that you have to start insulting us. If we don’t see things the way you do, then we “don’t get it, or have ADHD”? Do you realize how intolerant you sound? If you really think that we are lost and ignorant with regard to the gospel of Jesus, why would you have such an unloving response to us? I realize this passage is not in red letters:

Titus 3:2
“…speak evil of no one, to avoid quarreling, to be gentle, and to show perfect courtesy toward all men.”

but we consider this part of the teaching of Jesus. Do you not?

Again your lack of understanding of history leads you to a misunderstanding of scripture. Mary is the new Eve. Jesus called her “woman” because she represented all women. She became, through her obedience to Him, the person He intended for Eve to be. Eve chose to sin, Mary did not. When interpreting scripture, it is important to take it in context, within the history and tradition in which it was written. It will not work to place your current societal expectations or linguistic understandings into the scripture. Calling your wife or mother “woman” today may mean something very different than it would for Jesus to use that term. He always chose His words very carefully, and I can assure you he was in NO way belittling or demeaning His mother. His keeping of the commandments was perfect, and He honored her - always.

As to the favor, I am not sure what He may have asked of Her. It is my experience that kids asked their mom’s to do things for them all the time.

Luke 2:50-52
" And he went down with them and came to Nazareth, and was obedient to them; and his mother kept all these things in her heart.

52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and in stature, and in favor with God and man."

If Jesus thought it prudent to be obedient to her, why should we not?

I think she followed Him on the road, and cooked for Him and His disciples, and mended his clothes.

You make it sound like He looked to her for her approval. Did Mary ask Jesus to do anything else?

Jesus was a natural human child, like we are in every way except sin. So, yes, as a youngster, I am sure He did look to her for that. He probably brought her His first makings at the feet of Joseph so she could give Him affirmation. They didn’t have refrigerators, so she could not put His drawings, but the house in Nazareth was probably full of things He brought for her, or made for her. This is what loving sons do for their moms.

No. She told the servants to do what Jesus says to do. Mary didn’t approach Jesus again saying “this guy wants his sight” or “you need more food to feed these people.”

Well, we don’t know that. We don’t know but what she had witnessed Jesus working miracles in the past. How was she so confident that He would fix the problem? How does it seem that SHE knew it was time to do a public ministry? How is it that she was not deterred from her confidence after He told her it wasn’t time? WHY did he go ahead and work the miracle, if it was not His time? She knew something…

Jesus said that He was doing the work of His Father and that Hhe only did what His Father told Him to do.

We’re talking Godly and Spiritual things here, not flesh.

What are you saying? Was making wine for the wedding an act of the flesh? !!??

come to think of it, you may not believe he turned water into wine…you may believe it was grape juice…but in either case, was it not the will of the Father that it be done?

Read #410. Jesus never looked for the approval of Mary to do anything. He was doing God’s work (John 4:34). All throughout the Gospel of John, we see the word “Father”. Jesus was only doing what His Father told Him to do.

Maybe not after the day she asked him to make wine. However, as a child, he no doubt looked to her as all human children do their mothers. But, again, you are making a distinction that does not exist. Mary never asked Him to do anything that would be contrary to the Father’s will. She is the eternal “yes” to the Father. “Let it be done according to Your will”.

 

[Pixie_Dust]

Open your Bible here. WHAT favor did He ask of her? Actually, in John chapter 2, Jesus called her “woman”. I don’t know about you, but if I called my mother “woman”, she’d back-hand me with her 19-pound purse and have me airborne.
HOW COULD He call His own mother by a title?
Many times Jesus said for us to “come onto Me”? It was the Catholic “church” who set aside all of that and looked closer into Mary.
Sounds like you either don’t get it or have ADHD.

Ah, you’re putting a 21st Century derogatory spin on the word “woman” that did not exist in the 1st. The word “woman” used here is from the Greek gune that means “a woman of any age, whether a virgin, or married, or a widow.”

Jesus also said, “Behold thy mother” from the cross. If you believe that Jesus is our brother (we’re joint-heirs with Him, right? Adopted children of Abba-Father? See Romans 8:15-17) then His mother is your mother, too.

 

[mirandajb]

He was her babe-in-arms! You think He never asked her for food, drink, clothing, toys, a million other things that children do ask of their mothers? And did he not ask her from the Cross to look after John as much as he asked John to look after her?

And woman was a title of UTMOST respect, perfectly fine for any man to use of his mother in public. You don’t understand a single thing about Jesus if you think he could disobey the commandments by saying anything disrespectful to her or about her, in public or private!

The word didn’t have the derogatory meaning it has for us. No way she would have backhanded him - probably would have been proud of him for being such a well-brought-up RESPECTFUL son.

Sorry LilyM, kujo is a Sola Scriptura person so he is now going to ask you for a Bible reference that states that Jesus asked Mary to feed Him, clean Him or play with Him. All of these come under tradition that only the Catholics believes in.