Question About Mary ??

[Jaypeeto4]

So we’ve got another antiCatholic smartaleck in here again, eh?

The fact is that Joseph was a righteous man in awe at the holiness of God, just as those in the OT were who took off their shoes when standing on Holy Ground.

Mary and Joseph had both been informed that the child conceived in her womb was God the Son of God and conceived by the Holy Spirit. Conceived by God.

There is no way that Joseph or any other righteous Jew would have regarded her as a vessel for normal sexual intercourse after knowing something like that. The angel told Joseph not to be afraid to bring Mary into his home because Joseph was afraid Mary had maybe committed fornication and her presence would defile his home. The angel Gabriel then informed him that she had conceived by God Himself, by the Holy Spirit. Joseph then knew that Mary was the fulfillment of all Biblical prophecy beginning with the protoevangelium of Genesis 3:15. He took her into his home and as a righteous man, was in awe of the fact that God had chosen her, literally, as his unique tabernacle which God had overshadowed with his Spirit just as the shekinah had overshadowed the tent of meeting in the desert.

There is no way Joseph would have felt comfortable approaching her for intercourse after knowing something like that, for he was a righteous man. And the brothers and sisters of Jesus were WELL KNOWN throughout the early Church, as they were members of the Church, one was Bishop of Jerusalem.
If these were children of Mary, the idea of Mary being a perpetual virgin could never even have gotten off the ground. The very idea would have been laughed to scorn by the entire early church.
Yet nobody laughed, nobody opposed.

Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+

 

[Priest34]

The Jews didn’t have a formal canon for their scriptures in Jesus’ day either - they were still disagreeing about which books were inspired at the council of Jamnia in 70 AD, 35 years AFTER Christ died!!!

I guess Jesus was confused also when He opened the book of Isaiah…Philip was confused also when he found Nathaniel and told him we have found the one the prophets did write…

 

[LilyM]

I guess Jesus was confused also when He opened the book of Isaiah…Philip was confused also when he found Nathaniel and told him we have found the one the prophets did write…

In the early Church they read from the *Shepherd of Hermas *and Clement’s Letter to the Alexandrians in their services right alongside the writings of Peter, Paul, James and John. Does that mean the *Shepherd *and the Letter of Clement are inspired scripture?

 

[Priest34]

So we’ve got another antiCatholic smartaleck in here again, eh?

The fact is that Joseph was a righteous man in awe at the holiness of God, just as those in the OT were who took off their shoes when standing on Holy Ground.

Mary and Joseph had both been informed that the child conceived in her womb was God the Son of God and conceived by the Holy Spirit. Conceived by God.

There is no way that Joseph or any other righteous Jew would have regarded her as a vessel for normal sexual intercourse after knowing something like that. The angel told Joseph not to be afraid to bring Mary into his home because Joseph was afraid Mary had maybe committed fornication and her presence would defile his home. The angel Gabriel then informed him that she had conceived by God Himself, by the Holy Spirit. Joseph then knew that Mary was the fulfillment of all Biblical prophecy beginning with the protoevangelium of Genesis 3:15. He took her into his home and as a righteous man, was in awe of the fact that God had chosen her, literally, as his unique tabernacle which God had overshadowed with his Spirit just as the shekinah had overshadowed the tent of meeting in the desert.

There is no way Joseph would have felt comfortable approaching her for intercourse after knowing something like that, for he was a righteous man. And the brothers and sisters of Jesus were WELL KNOWN throughout the early Church, as they were members of the Church, one was Bishop of Jerusalem.
If these were children of Mary, the idea of Mary being a perpetual virgin could never even have gotten off the ground. The very idea would have been laughed to scorn by the entire early church.
Yet nobody laughed, nobody opposed.

**The above is absolute nonsense and pure speculation. Joseph took Mary in because of the awesome experience he had with the angel. I don’t know about you but if an angel ever shows up at my door I will listen just as Joseph did. Joseph also took Mary in because he was a man of faith and humility and that protected Mary. He wasn’t concerned about defilement as much as he was concerned about Mary who was worthy of death being an individual subject to the Law which proclaimed death for a fornicator or an adulterer. As for not entering into a realm of natural relations with his wife is total nonsense also. Mary’s womb wasn’t holy, the person in the womb was. I can see it now, if the Ark of the Covenant were recovered, you catholics would make an idol out of it. It isn’t the Ark but who was in the Ark. Finally the idea of Mary being a perpetual virgin is being laughed to scorn. You catholics make to much out of the servant, it is the one being served that deserves all the GLORY
**

Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+

 

[Priest34]

In the early Church they read from the *Shepherd of Hermas *and Clement’s Letter to the Alexandrians in their services right alongside the writings of Peter, Paul, James and John. Does that mean the *Shepherd *and the Letter of Clement are inspired scripture?

The early church…hmmm, what did Peter read from or Paul?

 

[LilyM]

The early church…hmmm, what did Peter read from or Paul?

Paul, as you should very well know, quoted the Greek poets in his letters to the Greek churches - the line ‘in Him we live and move and have our being’ is one such quote. So I wouldn’t be too sure that they stuck to canonical Jewish scriptures - why would they for Gentiles?

 

[Jaypeeto4]

Mary’s womb wasn’t holy, the person in the womb was. I can see it now, if the Ark of the Covenant were recovered, you catholics would make an idol out of it. It isn’t the Ark but who was in the Ark. Finally the idea of Mary being a perpetual virgin is being laughed to scorn. You catholics make to much out of the servant, it is the one being served that deserves all the GLORY

Sorry, you inept theological dilettante,
but when God sanctifies a woman to carry God the Son,
her womb is sanctified. If you think otherwise, you are way off base.

Besides, I don’t care if fundamentalists laugh to scorn Mary’s perpetual virginity. Fundamentalists have nothing VALID to say anyway, since they are Johnny-Come-Latelies whose whacked out views never existed in the entire first 1500 years of Christianity all over the world.

If the “brothers and sisters” of Jesus were Mary’s children,
the doctrine of Mary’s perpetual virginity would never have been able to even get started in the Church, let alone be believed by EVERYBODY early on ( and centuries before Constantine’s time).

Laugh all you want, buster.
You won’t be laughing on Judgement Day.
I hope you like extreme heat for long periods of time.

Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+

 

[Pixie_Dust]

hum… I’m starting to wonder if Priest43 here is Kujo

Funny, I was thinking the same thing earlier…

 

[Priest34]

Mary’s womb wasn’t holy, the person in the womb was. I can see it now, if the Ark of the Covenant were recovered, you catholics would make an idol out of it. It isn’t the Ark but who was in the Ark. Finally the idea of Mary being a perpetual virgin is being laughed to scorn. You catholics make to much out of the servant, it is the one being served that deserves all the GLORY

Sorry, you inept theological dilettante,
but when God sanctifies a woman to carry God the Son,
her womb is sanctified. If you think otherwise, you are way off base.

Besides, I don’t care if fundamentalists laugh to scorn Mary’s perpetual virginity. Fundamentalists have nothing VALID to say anyway, since they are Johnny-Come-Latelies whose whacked out views never existed in the entire first 1500 years of Christianity all over the world.

If the “brothers and sisters” of Jesus were Mary’s children,
the doctrine of Mary’s perpetual virginity would never have been able to even get started in the Church, let alone be believed by EVERYBODY early on ( and centuries before Constantine’s time).

Laugh all you want, buster.
You won’t be laughing on Judgement Day.
I hope you like extreme heat for long periods of time.

Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+

**Typical response of an overly sensitive religious pharisee that can’t stand the truth. Such love has been projected in your words. I simply disagree with your religious darkness and you have me burning in hell. Oh so typical of an insecure religous fanatic that truly knows your religion but not Christ. May God get a hold of you before you are the one crying out for a finger to be dipped in water that your tongue may be cooled… **

 

[Pixie_Dust]

Prior to what you refer to as a Catholic Tradition there was what is referred to as the Written Word of God. The Jews loved it and studied it…David said I have hid thy word in my heart…

I was talking about the New Testament, which David did not have. But, if you want to talk about the Old Testament, don’t you think it’s odd that the Bible Jesus and His disciples used isn’t accepted by Christians outside the Catholic Church?

And I don’t receive or accept the Catholic Church as an authority on spiritual matters. If anything I believe the CC has missed it terribly.

You’d better throw out your New Testament then.

 

[Priest34]

Paul, as you should very well know, quoted the Greek poets in his letters to the Greek churches - the line ‘in Him we live and move and have our being’ is one such quote. So I wouldn’t be too sure that they stuck to canonical Jewish scriptures - why would they for Gentiles?

Who was Peter making reference to on the Day of Pentecost when he spoke of David? Who was the writer of the book of Hebrews referring to when he said what he did in Hebrews 1:8,9

 

[Priest34]

Pixie_Dust:
I was talking about the New Testament, which David did not have. But, if you want to talk about the Old Testament, don’t you think it’s odd that the Bible Jesus and His disciples used isn’t accepted by Christians outside the Catholic Church?

You’d better throw out your New Testament then.

Where in the world did you ever learn that Christians outside of the catholic church do not accept the bible Jesus and His disciples used…do you have heartburn from to many wafers or some type of dizziness from that funny grape juice?

 

[Pixie_Dust]

Where in the world did you ever learn that Christians outside of the catholic church do not accept the bible Jesus and His disciples used.

I know that Christians outside the Catholic Church don’t use the same Bible Jesus did. Jesus and the apostles used the Septuagint which had in it such books as Wisdom, Tobit, Judith, 1 & 2 Maccabees, Sirach, and Baruch.

…do you have heartburn from to many wafers or some type of dizziness from that funny grape juice?

Impossible, since I’m not even Catholic. I haven’t had my first Eucharist yet.

 

[Allweather]

do you have heartburn from to many wafers or some type of dizziness from that funny grape juice?

Fundamentalists should wonder why their teachings always attack the core doctrines of the faith.

And why the fundamentalists are so similar to one another. Recently we’ve had the likes of Kujo, Believers, NewPerspective, and now this Priest34 character. There is just enough difference in their phraseology to make it appear that they are not the same person, and yet they are clearly doctrinal siblings, so much so that the venom that pours out of them has the same odor.

 

[Allweather]

Priest34, I hope you’re pondering that statement about your throwing out the New Testament. It was the Catholic Church that assembled and ratified the New Testament. If the Catholic Church has no authority, then neither does the New Testament.

Isn’t that a paradox for you? Or, had you not thought about the origins of the New Testament before today?

 

[Mannyfit75]

…do you have heartburn from to many wafers or some type of dizziness from that funny grape juice?

What a bias and offensive comment. I don’t think this comment has anything to do with the thread topic itself. I do like to comment in the Holy Communion, we use unleaven bread, and it is ordinary wine, not grape juice.

grape juice and waffer is a Protestant term use for their communion. These **usage is completely foreign **to Catholic usage of Holy Communion.

This is for another topic so I’ll leave it at that.

 

[Priest34]

Fundamentalists should wonder why their teachings always attack the core doctrines of the faith.

And why the fundamentalists are so similar to one another. Recently we’ve had the likes of Kujo, Believers, NewPerspective, and now this Priest34 character. There is just enough difference in their phraseology to make it appear that they are not the same person, and yet they are clearly doctrinal siblings, so much so that the venom that pours out of them has the same odor.

**I guess you are right on, truth coming from different people will still be seen as truth. **

 

[Priest34]

What a bias and offensive comment. I don’t think this comment has anything to do with the thread topic itself. I do like to comment in the Holy Communion, we use unleaven bread, and it is ordinary wine, not grape juice.

grape juice and waffer is a Protestant term use for their communion. These **usage is completely foreign **to Catholic usage of Holy Communion.

This is for another topic so I’ll leave it at that.

**The point is whatever you use it aint Christ **

 

[Priest34]

Priest34, I hope you’re pondering that statement about your throwing out the New Testament. It was the Catholic Church that assembled and ratified the New Testament. If the Catholic Church has no authority, then neither does the New Testament.

Isn’t that a paradox for you? Or, had you not thought about the origins of the New Testament before today?

No one is throwing out the NT, certainly not me, the only thing I am throwing out is the falsehoods of catholicism.

 

[LilyM]

**The point is whatever you use it aint Christ **

Well your grape juice and wafer certainly isn’t! And if you’re not celebrating the Lord’s Supper with bread and wine as He did, then you’re disobeying His command to ‘do this in memory of me’.