Question About Mary ??

[LilyM]

The “Church” was born on Pentecost.
Acts 2:

14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, raised his voice and said to them, “Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and heed my words. 15 For these are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day. 16 But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:
17 ‘ And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God,
That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your young men shall see visions,
Your old men shall dream dreams.
18 And on My menservants and on My maidservants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days;
And they shall prophesy.
19 I will show wonders in heaven above
And signs in the earth beneath:
Blood and fire and vapor of smoke.
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness,
And the moon into blood,
Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the LORD.
21 And it shall come to pass
That whoever calls on the name of the LORD
Shall be saved.’

Read on. No mention of Mary, rosaries or scapulars.

WHEN was the last time people in your congregation acted like they was drunk when they was actually drunk in the Spirit?

Read Acts 3 and Acts 4. Mary mentioned? Nope! How DARE Pope Peter not mention the “mother of god”?

Maybe because it’s not about her at all? She can’t do anything now?
It’s either Jesus or Hell. It’s not “Mary or Hell”.

When did Paul ever act like he was drunk? Never - neither did he ever WRITE as though he was drunk. Neither did most of the New Testament writers - John being the exception in Revelation.

Spirit-inspired drunk-mimicing behaviour and utterances are all well and good, but Paul himself says they require careful discernment (how thoroughly does your church investigate to make sure its spirits are of God and not the devil?)

AND that speaking in tongues is only ONE of the gifts of the spirit - others are more mundane - such as teaching!

And why is it only people on YOUR side who are inspired by the Holy Spirit? Just because they’re acting drunk??? Anyone can act drunk. Jesus never did.

And I’d love for you to name anywhere where we say belief in Jesus isn’t necessary to avoid Hell???

And WHY WHY WHY will you persist in believing Jesus has somehow stopped loving his mother - to the point in fact where he in fact hates her now and IS SINNING by disobeying the commandments and failing to honour her?? They are both alive, as we all hope to be eternally alive in Christ. That makes her still his mother. Today and forevermore. Right now, this very second. And you belive he doesn’t listen to her?

 

[truthnlight]

Salvation. Through Christ, we are “justified” or “just-if-I’d never sinned”.

What does it matter, therefore, if Mary remained a virgin or not? Wether Jesus was an “only child” or if he was one of 10 kids, He was STILL the first-born, the child parents dedicated to God.

It has no effect to our Salvation if Mary remained a virgin or not.
What would probably matter is if Mary was in submission to her husband.

 

[truthnlight]

Salvation. Through Christ, we are “justified” or “just-if-I’d never sinned”.

What does it matter, therefore, if Mary remained a virgin or not? Wether Jesus was an “only child” or if he was one of 10 kids, He was STILL the first-born, the child parents dedicated to God.

It has no effect to our Salvation if Mary remained a virgin or not.
What would probably matter is if Mary was in submission to her husband.

Acts 4:12
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Act.004:010 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
004:011 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
004:012 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
004:013 Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus. KJV

 

[Allweather]

The “Church” was born on Pentecost.
Read Acts 3 and Acts 4. Mary mentioned? Nope! How DARE Pope Peter not mention the “mother of god”?

Maybe because it’s not about her at all? She can’t do anything now?
It’s either Jesus or Hell. It’s not “Mary or Hell”.

You might want to start reading a little earlier in Acts. Mary was with the Apostles and the 120 gathered in the upper room waiting for the Holy Ghost. Don’t you think it kind of unlikely that Mary, being the mother of the Lord they’d seen resurrected and ascended into Heaven only a few days earlier, wouldn’t have occupied a place of great honor in that gathering?

But, your basic problem is that you don’t have a proper, rational view of the New Testament. If you did have, then you’d never accept the lunatic-fringe interpretations of it that you do. Lord knows, none of this is orginal Kujo thinking. I’ve heard a thousand sermons designed like this from when I was in the United Pentecostal Church 30 years ago. They say they believe ONLY in the Bible, yet they manage to ignore large parts of the Bible… you know… the parts that disagree with their lunatic-fringe religions.

 

[Pixie_Dust]

The “Church” was born on Pentecost.
Acts 2:

The “Church” was born when Jesus said, “Come, follow me.” The Holy Spirit was given at Pentecost. The Church already existed before that.

The only people who thought the apostles were drunk were those who were NOT being saved that day. They were spiritually deaf to the Gospel being preached. None of the people who heard the apostles speaking in their own languages accused them of being drunk, they understood the Gospel being preached and they were convicted of their sins. If people are acting drunk in your church then they are doing a good imitation of what the non-believers thought happened at Pentecost.

Maybe because it’s not about her at all? She can’t do anything now?
It’s either Jesus or Hell. It’s not “Mary or Hell”.

Erm, how did Jesus get to the Earth? Did he just catch a ride on a falling star?

Mary said, “from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.” Jesus said of her, “blessed are they who hear the word of God, and keep it.”

I just can’t believe you’d diss your Saviour’s Mom like that. :tsktsk:

 

[Pixie_Dust]

Acts 4:12
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Act.004:010 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
004:011 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
004:012 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
004:013 Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus. KJV

Amen! I love this passage!

 

[BelFarfalla]

The “Church” was born on Pentecost.
Acts 2:

14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, raised his voice and said to them, “Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and heed my words. 15 For these are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day. 16 But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:
17 ‘ And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God,
That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your young men shall see visions,
Your old men shall dream dreams.
18 And on My menservants and on My maidservants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days;
And they shall prophesy.
19 I will show wonders in heaven above
And signs in the earth beneath:
Blood and fire and vapor of smoke.
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness,
And the moon into blood,
Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the LORD.
21 And it shall come to pass
That whoever calls on the name of the LORD
Shall be saved.’

Read on. No mention of Mary, rosaries or scapulars.

WHEN was the last time people in your congregation acted like they was drunk when they was actually drunk in the Spirit?

Read Acts 3 and Acts 4. Mary mentioned? Nope! How DARE Pope Peter not mention the “mother of god”?

Maybe because it’s not about her at all? She can’t do anything now?
It’s either Jesus or Hell. It’s not “Mary or Hell”.

Your bible quote does not mention the bible either. So why are you bothering with the bible. Jesus never told anyone to write a bible. He only used the OT?

 

[BelFarfalla]

“Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee.” Luke 1:28

“Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.” Luke 1:42.

 

[Jaypeeto4]

I honestly don’t see why you good kind Catholics are wasting your time with this kujo character.

I have been following his posts for several days.
He is not here to respectfully discuss differences in understanding or to better understand what we believe or to find out if maybe he misunderstands what we believe, and he is certainly NOT a nice person. He has demonstrated over and over again that he is here to accuse, insult, mock and degrade both our faith and US as PEOPLE. Scripture tells us not to waste our time with such people.

In a spiritual sense, you are casting your pearls before swine.

 

[NonDenom]

Not in Biblical language. In the old Testament alone there are numerous passages such as 'Michal (David’s wife) had no children until

the day she died’ (she’d hardly have children AFTER she died) and ‘sit at my right hand until I put your enemies under your feet’ (David is hardly going to be asked to move AFTER this happens, is he?).

Clearly when the Bible says ‘until’ it can mean ‘until and after’.

As for Mary - look closer at her words to Gabriel. A woman, newly betrothed, expecting in the normal course of events to have sex and children in the very near future, is told she’ll have a child - and she says ‘HOW can this be, I am a virgin’??? If she’s planning a normal marriage she KNOWS how it can be - her husband will sleep with her and father the child! The answer only makes sense if she’s planning on remaining a virgin.

Hi
This is realy a strech, “Haveing not known a man yet” doesn’t sound like she is planning on staying a virgin forever.

 

[Randy_Carson]

Jesus quoted psalm 69:4&9. What makes you think 69:8 is not referring to Him either?

Did Jesus become a stranger unto his brethren as is says in Psalm 69:8? The answer is YES. In John 7:5 we see that is true.

Psa 69:8I am become a stranger unto my brethren, and an alien unto my mother’s children.

Jhn 7:5 For neither did his brethren believe in him.From the NT verses below, it is clear that Jesus had brothers and sisters.

Mat 1:24-25Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: (25) **And knew her not till **she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

Mat 12:46-47While he yet talked to the people, behold, [his] mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him. (47) Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.

Mat 13:55Is not this the carpenter’s son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?

Mark 6:2-3And when the sabbath day was come, he began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing [him] were astonished, saying, From whence hath this [man] these things? and what wisdom [is] this which is given unto him, that even such mighty works are wrought by his hands? (3) Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.

Jhn 2:12After this he went down to Capernaum, he, and his mother, and his brethren, and his disciples: and they continued there not many days.

Act 1:14These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren.

1Cr 9:5Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and [as] the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?

Gal 1:19But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord’s brother."

We need to realize a few things here about these “brothers and sisters”: First, there was no word for cousin, or for nephew or niece, or for aunt or uncle in ancient Hebrew or Aramaic - the words that the Jews used in all those instances were “brother” or “sister”. An example of this can be seen in Gen 14:14, where Lot, who was Abraham’s nephew, is called his brother.

Second, if Jesus had had any brothers, if Mary had had any other sons, would the last thing that Jesus did on earth be to grievously offend his surviving brothers? In Jn 19:26-27, right before Jesus dies, it says that Jesus entrusted the care of His mother to the beloved disciple, John. If Mary had had any other sons, it would have been an incredible slap in the face to them that the Apostle John was entrusted with the care of their mother!

Third, we see from Mt. 27:55-56, that the James and Joses mentioned in Mark 6 as the “brothers” of Jesus, are actually the sons of another Mary. And, one other passage to consider is Acts 1:14-15, “[The Apostles] with one accord devoted themselves to prayer, together with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus and with His brothers…the company of persons was in all about a hundred and twenty.” A company of 120 persons composed of the Apostles, Mary, the women, and the “brothers” of Jesus. Let’s see there were 11 Apostles at the time. Jesus’ mother makes 12. The women, probably the same three women mentioned in Matthew 27, but let’s say it was maybe a dozen or two, just for argument’s sake. So that puts us up to 30 or 40 or so. So that leaves the number of Jesus’ brothers at about 80 or 90! Do you think Mary had 80 or 90 children? She would have been in perpetual labor! No, Scripture does not contradict the teaching of the Catholic Church about the “brothers” of Jesus, when Scripture is properly interpreted in context.

Your error results from your ignorance of Aramaic and Greek.

This is the same problem that led you to the false logic in your signature, and this has been brought to your attention previously.

 

[LJN21]

Hi
This is realy a strech, “Haveing not known a man yet” doesn’t sound like she is planning on staying a virgin forever.

I don’t recall ‘yet’ being any part of that verse.

 

[Mommyof02green]

Hi
This is realy a strech, “Haveing not known a man yet” doesn’t sound like she is planning on staying a virgin forever.

I don’t recall ‘yet’ being any part of that verse.

Luke 1:34 (KJV):

Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?

Source: biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=49&chapter=1&version=9

“How will this be,” Mary asked the angel, “since I am a virgin?”

Source: biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=49&chapter=1&version=31

Luke 1:34 (NASB):

Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I am a virgin?”

Source: biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=48&chapter=1&version=49

Luke 1:34 (NAB):

But Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I have no relations with a man?”

Source: usccb.org/nab/bible/luke/luke1.htm

I’ve looked at several translations and I don’t see the word “yet” in them.

 

[kujo313]

Acts 4:12
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Act.004:010 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
004:011 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
004:012 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
004:013 Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus. KJV

Amen, Truthnlight!

2 Timothy 2:15-16

Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth. Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly.

Not ashamed. Don’t have to go outside the Word to preach the Gospel and Salvation through Christ, alone.

I left the religion of “What if…?” and “What about…?” and found a place that worships the Lord.
Looking at Scripture and the actions of the apostles, I’m sure that the denomination that I left is NOT the Church. I believe that the “Church” is not concentrated in one denomination but in the hearts of the believer. Those who go outside Jesus, Himself, for Salvation is a spiritual whore and is not in the Will of God.

In these threads, non-catholics are invited to speak and then are criticized for when they do.
Jesus said “I am” many times in Scripture (Jn 8:24; 6:51; 8:23; 8:12; 10:9; 10:11; 10:36; 11:25; 14:6; 15:1; 19:2)

The “I AM” in the Old Testament was whatever man needed He became, he was his all in all. Jesus in the New Testament uses all the examples to show who He is. He is EVERYTHING to man and the ONLY WAY to God.
I’m very happy that He doesn’t change.

 

[Randy_Carson]

Jesus quoted psalm 69:4&9. What makes you think 69:8 is not referring to Him either?

Did Jesus become a stranger unto his brethren as is says in Psalm 69:8? The answer is YES. In John 7:5 we see that is true.

Psa 69:8I am become a stranger unto my brethren, and an alien unto my mother’s children.

If you take this Psalm to be a literal prophecy of Christ, then you run into bigger problems. Look three verses earlier, “O God, thou knowest my folly; the wrongs I have done are not hidden from thee” (emphasis added). Since Jesus did no wrong and had no follies, it seems clear we shouldn’t take this passage literally.

The prophecy in verse 8 is fulfilled by the fact that Jesus was rejected by his own relatives (Mark 3:21). Besides, if the “brethren” of the Lord were Joseph’s children from a prior marriage, though they were not Mary’s biological children, legally they would be considered her sons.

From the NT verses below, it is clear that Jesus had brothers and sisters.

Mat 1:24-25
Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: (25) **And knew her not till **she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

Does Matthew’s use of “until” mean what your friend says it does? Not necessarily. The Greek word for “until” (heos) does not imply that Mary had marital relations after the birth of Christ. In 2 Samuel 6:23, we read that Michal, the daughter of Saul, had no child “until” the day of her death. (Rest assured that she didn’t have any children after that day, either.) Hebrews 1:13 and 1 Timothy 4:13 are similar examples.

When we interpret any passage, we must consider what the author was trying to say. Matthew’s intent here is not to explain what happened after the birth of Christ. He is only concerned with the fact that Joseph and Mary had no relations before then. It is the virgin birth, not later siblings, that Matthew is concerned with.

The other verses you quoted are properly interpreted by considering the limitations of the Hebrew and Aramaic languages which did not have specific words for “cousin”; thus, distant relatives were all called “brothers” and “sisters”.

This should clear up any confusion. :tiphat:

 

[Randy_Carson]

After reviewing the Bible, it is time to look at what the earliest Christians taught about the Perpetual Virginity of Mary:

ON THE PERPETUAL VIRGINITY OF MARY

Protoevangelium of James

“And behold, an angel of the Lord stood by [St. Anne], saying, ‘Anne! Anne! The Lord has heard your prayer, and you shall conceive and shall bring forth, and your seed shall be spoken of in all the world.’ And Anne said, ‘As the Lord my God lives, if I beget either male or female, I will bring it as a gift to the Lord my God, and it shall minister to him in the holy things all the days of its life.’ . . . And [from the time she was three] Mary was in the temple of the Lord as if she were a dove that dwelt there” (Protoevangelium of James 4, 7 [A.D. 120]).

“And when she was twelve years old there was held a council of priests, saying, ‘Behold, Mary has reached the age of twelve years in the temple of the Lord. What then shall we do with her, lest perchance she defile the sanctuary of the Lord?’ And they said to the high priest, ‘You stand by the altar of the Lord; go in and pray concerning her, and whatever the Lord shall manifest to you, that also will we do.’ . . . [A]nd he prayed concerning her, and behold, an angel of the Lord stood by him saying, ‘Zechariah! Zechariah! Go out and assemble the widowers of the people and let them bring each his rod, and to whomsoever the Lord shall show a sign, his wife shall she be. . . . And Joseph [was chosen]. . . . And the priest said to Joseph, ‘You have been chosen by lot to take into your keeping the Virgin of the Lord.’ But Joseph refused, saying, ‘I have children, and I am an old man, and she is a young girl’” (ibid., 8–9).

“And Annas the scribe came to him [Joseph] . . . and saw that Mary was with child. And he ran away to the priest and said to him, ‘Joseph, whom you did vouch for, has committed a grievous crime.’ And the priest said, ‘How so?’ And he said, ‘He has defiled the virgin whom he received out of the temple of the Lord and has married her by stealth’” (ibid., 15).

“And the priest said, ‘Mary, why have you done this? And why have you brought your soul low and forgotten the Lord your God?’ . . . And she wept bitterly saying, ‘As the Lord my God lives, I am pure before him, and know not man’” (ibid.).

Origen

“The Book [the Protoevangelium] of James [records] that the brethren of Jesus were sons of Joseph by a former wife, whom he married before Mary. Now those who say so wish to preserve the honor of Mary in virginity to the end, so that body of hers which was appointed to minister to the Word . . . might not know intercourse with a man after the Holy Spirit came into her and the power from on high overshadowed her. And I think it in harmony with reason that Jesus was the firstfruit among men of the purity which consists in [perpetual] chastity, and Mary was among women. For it were not pious to ascribe to any other than to her the firstfruit of virginity” (Commentary on Matthew 2:17 [A.D. 248]).

---

Hilary of Poitiers

“If they [the brethren of the Lord] had been Mary’s sons and not those taken from Joseph’s former marriage, she would never have been given over in the moment of the passion [crucifixion] to the apostle John as his mother, the Lord saying to each, ‘Woman, behold your son,’ and to John, ‘Behold your mother’ [John 19:26–27), as he bequeathed filial love to a disciple as a consolation to the one desolate” (Commentary on Matthew 1:4 [A.D. 354]).

---

Athanasius

“Let those, therefore, who deny that the Son is by nature from the Father and proper to his essence deny also that he took true human flesh from the ever-virgin Mary” (Discourses Against the Arians 2:70 [A.D. 360]).

---

**Epiphanius **

“We believe in one God, the Father almighty, maker of all things, both visible and invisible; and in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God . . . who for us men and for our salvation came down and took flesh, that is, was born perfectly of the holy ever-virgin Mary by the Holy Spirit” (The Man Well-Anchored 120 [A.D. 374]).

“And to holy Mary, [the title] ‘Virgin’ is invariably added, for that holy woman remains undefiled” (Medicine Chest Against All Heresies 78:6 [A.D. 375]).

(cont.)

 

[Randy_Carson]

Jerome

“[Helvidius] produces Tertullian as a witness [to his view] and quotes Victorinus, bishop of Petavium. Of Tertullian, I say no more than that he did not belong to the Church. But as regards Victorinus, I assert what has already been proven from the gospel—that he [Victorinus] spoke of the brethren of the Lord not as being sons of Mary but brethren in the sense I have explained, that is to say, brethren in point of kinship, not by nature. [By discussing such things we] are . . . following the tiny streams of opinion. Might I not array against you the whole series of ancient writers? Ignatius, Polycarp, Irenaeus, Justin Martyr, and many other apostolic and eloquent men, who against [the heretics] Ebion, Theodotus of Byzantium, and Valentinus, held these same views and wrote volumes replete with wisdom. If you had ever read what they wrote, you would be a wiser man” (Against Helvidius: The Perpetual Virginity of Mary 19 [A.D. 383]).

“We believe that God was born of a virgin, because we read it. We do not believe that Mary was married after she brought forth her Son, because we do not read it. . . . You [Helvidius] say that Mary did not remain a virgin. As for myself, I claim that Joseph himself was a virgin, through Mary, so that a virgin Son might be born of a virginal wedlock” (ibid., 21).

---

**Didymus the Blind **

“It helps us to understand the terms ‘first-born’ and ‘only-begotten’ when the Evangelist tells that Mary remained a virgin ‘until she brought forth her first-born son’ [Matt. 1:25]; for neither did Mary, who is to be honored and praised above all others, marry anyone else, nor did she ever become the Mother of anyone else, but even after childbirth she remained always and forever an immaculate virgin” (The Trinity 3:4 [A.D. 386]).

---

**Ambrose **

“Imitate her [Mary], holy mothers, who in her only dearly beloved Son set forth so great an example of material virtue; for neither have you sweeter children [than Jesus], nor did the Virgin seek the consolation of being able to bear another son” (Letters 63:111 [A.D. 388]).

---

**Pope Siricius I **

“You had good reason to be horrified at the thought that another birth might issue from the same virginal womb from which Christ was born according to the flesh. For the Lord Jesus would never have chosen to be born of a virgin if he had ever judged that she would be so incontinent as to contaminate with the seed of human intercourse the birthplace of the Lord’s body, that court of the eternal king” (Letter to Bishop Anysius [A.D. 392]).

---

**Augustine **

“In being born of a Virgin who chose to remain a Virgin even before she knew who was to be born of her, Christ wanted to approve virginity rather than to impose it. And he wanted virginity to be of free choice even in that woman in whom he took upon himself the form of a slave” (Holy Virginity 4:4 [A.D. 401]).

---

**Leporius **

“We confess, therefore, that our Lord and God, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, born of the Father before the ages, and in times most recent, made man of the Holy Spirit and the ever-virgin Mary” (Document of Amendment 3 [A.D. 426]).

---

**Cyril of Alexandria **

“[T]he Word himself, coming into the Blessed Virgin herself, assumed for himself his own temple from the substance of the Virgin and came forth from her a man in all that could be externally discerned, while interiorly he was true God. Therefore he kept his Mother a virgin even after her childbearing” (Against Those Who Do Not Wish to Confess That the Holy Virgin is the Mother of God 4 [A.D. 430]).

Hope this helps. :tiphat:

 

[Randy_Carson]

Having reviewed what the Bible and the Early Church Fathers have to say about the Perpetual Virginity of Mary, let’s now examine what the earliest Protestant Reformers have to say:

Early Protestants on the Perpetual Virginity of Mary

Martin Luther (1483-1546)

“Christ, our Savior, was the real and natural fruit of Mary’s virginal womb…This was without the cooperation of a man, and she remained a virgin after that.”

“Christ…was the only Son of Mary, and the Virgin Mary bore no children besides Him…I am inclined to agree with those who declare that ‘brothers’ really mean ‘cousins’ here, for Holy Writ and the Jews always call cousins brothers.”

“A new lie about me is being circulated. I am supposed to have preached and written that Mary, the mother of God, was not a virgin either before or after the birth of Christ…”

“Scripture does not say or indicate that she later lost her virginity…When Matthew says that Joseph did not know Mary carnally until she had brought forth her son, it does not follow that he knew her subsequently; on the contrary, it means that he never did know her…This babble…is without justification…he has neither noticed nor paid any attention to either Scripture or the common idiom.”

John Calvin (1509-1564)

“Helvidius displayed excessive ignorance in concluding that Mary must have had many sons, because Christ’s ‘brothers’ are sometimes mentioned.”

“The inference he [Helvidius] drew from it was, that Mary remained a virgin no longer than till her first birth, and that afterwards she had other children by her husband…No just and well-grounded inference can be drawn from these words…as to what took place after the birth of Christ. He is called ‘first-born’; but it is for the sole purpose of informing us that he was born of a virgin…What took place afterwards the historian does not inform us…No man will obstinately keep up the argument, except from an extreme fondness for disputation.”

“Under the word ‘brethren’ the Hebrews include all cousins and other relations, whatever may be the degree of affinity.”

Huldreich Zwingli (1484-1531)

“I have never thought, still less taught, or declared publicly, anything concerning the subject of the ever Virgin Mary, Mother of our salvation, which could be considered dishonourable, impious, unworthy or evil…I believe with all my heart according to the word of holy gospel that this pure virgin bore for us the Son of God and that she remained, in the birth and after it, a pure and unsullied virgin, for eternity.”

Heinrich Bullinger (1504-1575)

“The Virgin Mary…completely sanctified by the grace and blood of her only Son and abundantly endowed by the gift of the Holy Spirit and preferred to all…now lives happily with Christ in heaven and is called and remains ever-Virgin and Mother of God.”

John Wesley (1703-1791)

“I believe…he [Jesus Christ] was born of the blessed Virgin, who, as well after as shebrought him forth, continued a pure and unspotted virgin.”

Hope this helps. :tiphat:

 

[Randy_Carson]

Having reviewed what the Bible, the Early Church Fathers and the Protestant Reformers themselves had to say in support of the Perpetual Virginity of Mary, perhaps our separated brethren who dislike this "Catholic’ doctrine so vehemently can explain clearly to us once again what basis they find in scripture or history for rejecting what has been clearly held and taught from the beginning concerning the Perpetual Virginity of Mary, the Mother of God.

 

[Randy_Carson]

Acts 4:12
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Act.004:010 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
004:011 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
004:012 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
004:013 Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus. KJV

Amen!

Catholic love and believe every word of these verses as we do all 73 books of the God’s Holy Word. :bible1:

Thanks for sharing that. :tiphat: