Question about Mass readings selected

[dfp42]

I have a question about Mass readings selected for today 2-10-11. I’m using the Magnificat to follow through and I noticed that its the Memorial of Saint Scholastica the readings the book listed are Genesis 2: 18-25, Psalm 128, and Gospel according to Mark 7:24-30 and the USCCB list the same for today usccb.org/nab/today.shtml

However, I’m confused as to why the priest today didn’t use these readings and I’m wondering why since there was no funeral mass etc that would allow it to be changed. I’m not sure what readings exactly he choose but it wasn’t what was listed. I keep running into problems with this Magnificat booklet because I thought it would help with the readings for the day but it seems like different parishes can choose any one they want. Also, I’m noticing that the Magnificat doesn’t show the EP for the day. Are the EP allowed to be whatever the priest decides to use? If so, How many different type of EP prayers are there exactly?

Another thing that I wonder is The Order Of The Mass. During weekdays at some parishes can the Confieter or the Creed be left out? I noticed this wasn’t done today with the booklet showing the Order of the Mass.

If this is all proper and ok, I don’t understand why there is so much confusion on the readings or the order of the mass. It seems to me that certain parishes I’ve been to do things differently during the mass. Some will say the entrance antiphon, some will say a sentence and sing Alleluia, Alleluia before the Gospel reading, some will say the communion Antiphon, some will ring the bells differently at times. Will all of this be corrected to a more orderly universal mass with the new roman missal coming out?

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Is your priest a member of a religious institute?

 

[dfp42]

Not that I know of. How would I know for sure?

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Not that I know of. How would I know for sure?

You could ask him or in your bulletin next to his name there would be the initials of the Order.

Like in my signature here at the forum. After my name you see “O.Carm.” which is the Order of Carmel.

There is also another way to find out about the readings, since you have not given us the actual readings used. Ask the priest why it was different from your Magnificant.

 

[dfp42]

Very Rev …, VF

?

Why does it matter though? Shouldn’t the readings be universal?

 

[Batfink]

The religious order matters because different orders rank saints’ days differently (as do diocese, countries etc.). In this case, St. Scholastica is celebrated as a memoria, but may well be a higher ranked feast in some areas/orders. Memorias usually use the readings of the ferial day, which are the ones printed in your Magnificat. It is possible that the priest used special readings for St. Scholastica - I would imagine that, for example, the Benedictines would rank this as a feast.

As for your other points:
The Eucharistic Prayer is to be chosen by the priest. There are some rules (such as you can’t use EP IV on a day which has its own preface), but basically it is up to the priest, so Magnificat won’t print them in the Order of Mass. Aside from the Eucharistic Prayers for special uses (such as Reconciliation, or for Masses with children), there are 4 main Eucharistic Prayers. On a weekday Mass, you are most likely to hear EP 2 or 3.

The Creed is optional on ferial days and memorias. It is usually not said.

The sanctus bells should be rung at the same times. It is possible that you have been to parishes where the altar servers are still training (I train altar servers and they find it very difficult to get the first bell - at the epiclesis - right), or maybe the different EPs that were used made it seem as though the bells were rung at different times.

Entrance and Communion antiphons are not compulsory, particularly if there is a hymn instead.

 

[dfp42]

So this magnificat book isn’t really all made out to do what it says since there is no universal principle on what readings are to be said in the United States on a day by day basis. I plan to attend mass again today at a different parish in the same diocese and I am interested in what readings are chosen and if they line up with these books. I didn’t know that the readings are not the same. I thought they would be in the US at least.

 

[dfp42]

The religious order matters because different orders rank saints’ days differently (as do diocese, countries etc.). In this case, St. Scholastica is celebrated as a memoria, but may well be a higher ranked feast in some areas/orders. Memorias usually use the readings of the ferial day, which are the ones printed in your Magnificat. It is possible that the priest used special readings for St. Scholastica - I would imagine that, for example, the Benedictines would rank this as a feast.

As for your other points:
The Eucharistic Prayer is to be chosen by the priest. There are some rules (such as you can’t use EP IV on a day which has its own preface), but basically it is up to the priest, so Magnificat won’t print them in the Order of Mass. Aside from the Eucharistic Prayers for special uses (such as Reconciliation, or for Masses with children), there are 4 main Eucharistic Prayers. On a weekday Mass, you are most likely to hear EP 2 or 3.

The Creed is optional on ferial days and memorias. It is usually not said.

The sanctus bells should be rung at the same times. It is possible that you have been to parishes where the altar servers are still training (I train altar servers and they find it very difficult to get the first bell - at the epiclesis - right), or maybe the different EPs that were used made it seem as though the bells were rung at different times.

Entrance and Communion antiphons are not compulsory, particularly if there is a hymn instead.

Will any of this change so that the people know what is going to be said in the future with the new missal?

 

[benedictgal]

Actually, the Church does give the universal option to use the readings for the saint’s memorial, as is the case for St. Scholastica. Many parishes have the four-volume lectionary and the readings are found in there. One does not necessarily have to be a Benedictine to use the readings for St. Scholastica or her brother, St. Benedict. Thus, one can certainly use either the ferial readings or the readings indicated for the saint’s memorial.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Very Rev …, VF

?

VF means Vicar Forane which means he is a secular priest who has some extra duties assigned to him by the bishop.

Why does it matter though? Shouldn’t the readings be universal?

There is no universal calendar in the Church. What diocese are you in, what is your parish?

Those could also effect this as a parish patronal day is a feast there are also set feasts within each diocese.

There is no way to publish a book like the Magnificat to work. The best way to try and keep up would be through the bulletin. The Church should list the days for daily Mass as well as the readings for them.

Will any of this change so that the people know what is going to be said in the future with the new missal?

No.

There is the universal calendar but then each diocese/religious community adds to that their own items.

Best thing you could do is go to your local Catholic Bookstore (if you have one) and purchase the Ordo for your diocese.

 

[dfp42]

I’m in the Diocese of Pittsburgh diopitt.org/

If there’s no way to create a book with proper readings then whats the point of the Magnificat? I wish I would of known that this book is kinda useless before signing up for a year. Great.

 

[japhy]

Also, I’m noticing that the Magnificat doesn’t show the EP for the day. Are the EP allowed to be whatever the priest decides to use? If so, How many different type of EP prayers are there exactly?

There are many Eucharistic Prayers in the Roman Rite:

• Eucharistic Prayers I - IV
• Eucharistic Prayers for Reconciliation I - II
• Eucharistic Prayers for Children I - III
• Eucharistic Prayer for Special Needs (four variations)

That’s ten (or thirteen) Eucharistic Prayers. There are also over fifty prefaces to the Eucharistic Prayer – this is the prayer said by the priest after “Let us give thanks to the Lord our God” and before the “Holy, Holy, Holy”.

The Magnificat may have the four standard Eucharistic Prayers in it, but I doubt it has all of them. The Magnificat also probably does not include the prefaces, because there are so many.

The priest can choose what Eucharistic Prayer and what preface to use (within certain guidelines, of course).

During weekdays at some parishes can the Confieter or the Creed be left out?

The Confiteor is one of three forms of the Penitential Act. Form A is the Confiteor (followed by the Kyrie). Form B is a four line dialogue between the priest and people (followed by the Kyrie). Form C is an embellished form of the Kyrie (not followed by the Kyrie again).

The Creed is rarely part of a weekday Mass.

It seems to me that certain parishes I’ve been to do things differently during the mass.

Yes, there is a bit of leeway, some room for variation.

Some will say the entrance antiphon, some will say a sentence and sing Alleluia, Alleluia before the Gospel reading, some will say the communion Antiphon, some will ring the bells differently at times.

Many parishes treat the praying of the entrance antiphon as not mandatory, although the General Instruction of the Roman Missal seems to suggest otherwise:
47. After the people have gathered, the Entrance chant begins as the priest enters with the deacon and ministers. …]

1. …] If there is no singing at the entrance, the antiphon in the Missal is recited either by the faithful, or by some of them, or by a lector; otherwise, it is recited by the priest himself, who may even adapt it as an introductory explanation.[/INDENT[

The Alleluia before the Gospel can be omitted if it is not sung.

The Communion antiphon is also expected to be included somehow:

87. …] If there is no singing, however, the Communion antiphon found in the Missal may be recited either by the faithful, or by some of them, or by a lector. Otherwise the priest himself says it after he has received Communion and before he distributes Communion to the faithful.

The ringing of bells during the Eucharistic Prayer is up to local custom: “A little before the consecration, when appropriate, a server rings a bell as a signal to the faithful. According to local custom, the server also rings the bell as the priest shows the host and then the chalice.” (GIRM 150)​

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

I’m in the Diocese of Pittsburgh diopitt.org/

If there’s no way to create a book with proper readings then whats the point of the Magnificat? I wish I would of known that this book is kinda useless before signing up for a year. Great.

It should work most of the time. There is no way to make one small book such as the Magnificat work.

We need a Missal, the Ordo, and a Lectionary just to have the priest celebrate the Mass. So if it can’t be done for him with one small book why do you think it would work for you?

It seems your a bit angry about this. Just let it go, its not that big of an issue. As I said, it should work most of the time.

 

[estesbob]

I’m in the Diocese of Pittsburgh diopitt.org/

If there’s no way to create a book with proper readings then whats the point of the Magnificat? I wish I would of known that this book is kinda useless before signing up for a year. Great.

I use a daily Missal that cover all the options. however you will find that the Magnificat works most of the time. It is worth having even when it doesnt match the readings given its meditations and covering morning and evening prayer.

 

[puzzleannie]

I’m in the Diocese of Pittsburgh diopitt.org/

If there’s no way to create a book with proper readings then whats the point of the Magnificat? I wish I would of known that this book is kinda useless before signing up for a year. Great.

it is not useless
90% of the time the readings will be the same
if they had to print all the Eucharistic prayers,and all the optional readings, the book would be twice as big and cost twice as much
still a good value for the money
is there some reason you cannot simply listen to the readings proclaimed if they are different on a particular day, and then meditate with the readings in the book later in the day

 

[dfp42]

I’m sorry for getting upset. You guys are right this book is very useful. I honestly am starting to think it depends on where you go to mass at for example a chapel or your local parish where I can tell the difference on reverence and readings sticking to the words. I attended mass at my local parish today and a chapel today in the same diocese and noticed that I guess its up to priest. At my parish the opening prayer was different today as well as the prayer over the gifts and there was no mention of the blessed mother our lady of lourdes and the homily was about global warming for about 15 minutes. Then I go to a chapel and everything is dead on and the blessed mother is spoken about multiple times. In the end though I guess its up to how the priest wants to run the mass and what he wants to say.

 

[laszlo]

For the readings the generic rule is that for 4th class days (memorials/commemorations/non privileged ferias) the Sunday mass or the commemorated saint’s mass or any other votive mass can be celebrated. I estimate about a third of the days in such category.

The day for the original post St Scholastica is third class, that is not optional but a local saint for the diocese could overrule that. Also it is possible that if the priest is Benedictine, they may have special mass for her, instead of the Common for Virgins.

Credo since 1955 is only for 1st and 2nd class days, even before only duplex majus and the Doctors of the Church had credo from the lower classes.

 

[Batfink]

Whilst it is true that there are many priests and parishes who ad lib and don’t follow the rubrics (to a greater or lesser extent), the example you cite from yesterday is not a case in point, it seems from what you have said that both Masses adhered to the relevant rules and were fine:

Our Lady of Lourdes is an optional memorial in the universal calendar. I can find nothing on the web to indicate that this has been altered in your diocese (although it is possible), therefore it is perfectly acceptable that at one Mass there was no mention of Our Lady of Lourdes whereas there was at the other - it is optional.

There are sets of opening prayers (prayers over the gifts and post-communion prayers) for weekdays in ordinary time and the priest can choose any from within these so each Mass could legitimately have a different set, even assuming neither priest used the Common of the BVM.

From the GIRM:

On the weekdays in Ordinary Time, the priest may choose the weekday Mass, the Mass of an optional memorial, the Mass of a saint inscribed in the martyrology for that day, a Mass for various needs and occasions, or a votive Mass.

If he celebrates with a congregation, the priest should first consider the spiritual good of the faithful and avoid imposing his own personal preferences. In particular, he should not omit the readings assigned for each day in the weekday lectionary too frequently or without sufficient reason, since the Church desires that a richer portion of God’s word be provided for the people.

Where the faithful are attached to the optional memorials of Mary or the saints, at least one Mass of the memorial should be celebrated to satisfy their devotion.

 

[dfp42]

I guess I was always under the impression that the Mass celebrated in the US should be the same readings for the days etc. I guess in the end it’s just a minor thing and its up to the priest alone for what he wants to read and how he wants to run the mass with little things added or removed based on his liking.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

I guess I was always under the impression that the Mass celebrated in the US should be the same readings for the days etc. I guess in the end it’s just a minor thing and its up to the priest alone for what he wants to read and how he wants to run the mass with little things added or removed based on his liking.

No, that is not how it is.

Each diocese and religious order has its own Ordo for the celebration of the Mass. Dioceses have patron saints that are feast days for the diocese where they are not for other dioceses. Religious orders have a whole list of their own saints that they venerate.

There is a universal calendar but then each diocese and religious order modifies it for their usage.

Also there are options, usually there are two prayers for the opening prayer and two for the closing, the priest is free to pick. There are other options that are left to the priest celebrating but they are not as large as you are making them out to be.

I still sense a lot of misplaced anger over this. I hope it is just my misunderstanding of your posts due to the medium we are communicating in.