Question about Mass...

[gh4]

When the priest raises the Body of Christ and then again when he raises the blood of Christ, in our parish we say “My Lord and my God” and then we all sing ‘Jesus you are so lovely’ (all the way through the song each time. I would like to know if this is something that’s approved.
Also, at the end of mass, before he closes mass and dismisses us, he asks for new people to introduce themselves and then applauds those who are visiting etc. And also asks for birthdays and if so, we all sing happy birthday to them Same with anniversaries, and more applause.
Now I was taught not to applaud in church, ever. (raised UCC, not RC) So I choose to not applaud. Am I wrong or right in that? And I was never taught to sing happy birthday in church, with the one exception being during a children’s Christmas play when they sang happy birthday to Jesus, but that was not during mass, but in the church.

What say you folks who are so much more knowledgeable than I am to my questions?

I moved here and came back to church after an unfortunate absence of quite a few years while taking care of my parents with no respite care for them so I could get to mass. (I am an RCIA kind of catholic, 1987)

Thanks so much for your help.

 

[Love_Divine]

No clapping in church? I’ve clapped numerous times- baptisms, weddings, first communions, priests anniversaries/birthdays, etc.

I don’t know whether or not it’s considered right or wrong, but personally, I don’t really care. If you’ve had your readings, gospel, homily, and Eucharist, then really, why do you need validation about whether or not something of this nature is right, and if you’re right not to clap? If this chronic worrying about whether or not this is right, is this valid, etc is part of being Catholic, then quite frankly, I don’t want to be Catholic. Surely to goodness the chronic worrying I read from people on here has to be borderline scrupulous.

 

[awatkins69]

Contrary to what some will tell you, if you are so devoted to Christ and so love Him that you want to make sure that what you are doing is correct or not, that is good. There is a way to be culpable for ignorance, namely when that ignorance is our own fault because we “don’t care”.

Saying “My Lord and my God” is a common Catholic response when the Body of Our Lord is lifted up. I’ve never heard of anyone singing the song all the way through each time, but I assume it is fine if your pastor approved of it. However, I am pretty sure that nowhere has any Church authority asked new people to introduce themselves right during Mass, let alone applauding them just for coming. On the contrary the Holy Father has written directly against it. We should be obedient to our pastors, but obedient to the Holy Father first. Our works are like filthy rags, outside of God’s grace. If anything we do is actually good that comes solely by the grace of God, so there’s really no reason to applaud. Better to say a private and devoted prayer in thanksgiving for bringing someone back to the Church. I would definitely refrain from applauding, while trying not to judge my brothers and sisters nearby, especially if they are just being obedient to their pastor. If anybody asks you why you don’t applaud, explain to them why in a charitable manner. I would also not sing happy birthday during Mass. All this stuff, greeting new-comers, wishing happy birthday, is entirely appropriate *outside *of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

 

[GaryTaylor]

The question you have to ask yourself is what type of Catholic Mass are you trying to attend. If its a Catholic Church its a Catholic Mass.

Now with that said there is the Pre-Vatican II Latin Mass and then everything else. Theres a Thread with a Video which exlpains all this. Check it out and decide for yourself where you want to be.

 

[Petergee]

It is certainly praiseworthy and pious to say quietly something such as “My Lord and My God” when the Sacred Species are elevated. It is not praiseworthy or pious for an organised group of the congregation to say/sing aloud and together, anything which is not in the permitted text of the Mass. especially during such a solemn moment as the Consecration. In fact it is disobedient to the command of the 2nd Vatican Council which all Catholics are bound to obey:

• “Therefore no other person, even if he be a priest, may add, remove, or change anything in the Liturgy on his own authority.” *

• Vatican II Constitution on the Liturgy, Sacrosanctum Concilium, 22.3.

Sadly and shockingly some people ignored this, so the Pope re-stated in The General Instruction of the Roman Missal (2002) :
“the priest must remember that he is the servant of the Sacred Liturgy and that he himself is not permitted, on his own initiative, to add, to remove, or to change anything in the celebration of Mass.” [GIRM§ 24]

and again in the Holy See’s 2004 disciplinary document, Redemptionis Sacramentum:
*"51. Only those Eucharistic Prayers are to be used which are found in the Roman Missal or are legitimately approved by the Apostolic See, and according to the manner and the terms set forth by it. “It is not to be tolerated that some priests take upon themselves the right to compose their own Eucharistic Prayers” [Pope John Paul II, Vicesimus quintus annus, n. 13] or to change the same texts approved by the Church, or to introduce others composed by private individuals [Instruction Inaestimabile donum, n. 5].

1. The reprobated practice by which priests, deacons or the faithful here and there alter or vary at will the texts of the Sacred Liturgy that they are charged to pronounce, must cease. For in doing thus, they render the celebration of the Sacred Liturgy unstable, and not infrequently distort the authentic meaning of the Liturgy.
   1. In an altogether particular manner, let everyone do all that is in their power to ensure that the Most Holy Sacrament of the Eucharist will be protected from any and every irreverence or distortion and that all abuses be thoroughly corrected. This is a most serious duty incumbent upon each and every one, and all are bound to carry it out without any favoritism.
   2. Any Catholic, whether priest or deacon or lay member of Christ’s faithful, has the right to lodge a complaint regarding a liturgical abuse to the diocesan Bishop or the competent Ordinary equivalent to him in law, or to the Apostolic See on account of the primacy of the Roman Pontiff. It is fitting, however, insofar as possible, that the report or complaint be submitted first to the diocesan Bishop. This is naturally to be done in truth and charity."*

As to applause in church, there are certain occasions such as during a wedding or an ordination where applause is permitted and called for by the rubrics (instructions) for the liturgy. Perhaps applause is excusable in church where it celebrates some other spiritual achievement. But definitely not for welcoming somebody or celebrating his birthday.

*“Wherever applause breaks out in the liturgy because of some human achievement, it is a sure sign that the essence of liturgy has totally disappeared and been replaced by a kind of religious entertainment. Such attraction fades quickly - it cannot compete in the market of leisure pursuits, incorporating as it increasingly does various forms of religious titillation.” *

• The Spirit of the Liturgy, by Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict XVI.

The Mass rubrics permit brief announcements to be made after the Prayer after Communion and before the Concluding Rite. But if the priest wants to have a welcome and introduction ceremony for new congregants and having a getting to know you session with them or to celebrate birthdays etc, it should be done after Mass is well and truly finished (allowing a decent interval of a few minutes after the recessional hymn is finished to allow people to pray after Mass), and if at all possible, not inside the church.

 

[Canto]

When the priest raises the Body of Christ and then again when he raises the blood of Christ, in our parish we say “My Lord and my God” and then we all sing ‘Jesus you are so lovely’ (all the way through the song each time. I would like to know if this is something that’s approved.

This is a change to the apporved liturgical books and is not licit.

Code of Law - Canon 846 §1 The liturgical books, approved by the competent authority, are to be faithfully followed in the celebration of the sacraments. Accordingly, no one may on a personal initiative add to or omit or alter anything in those books.

General Instruction of the Roman Missal 24. The priest must remember that he is the servant of the sacred Liturgy and that he himself is not permitted, on his own initiative, to add, to remove, or to change anything in the celebration of Mass. Cf. Second Vatican Ecumenical Council, Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy, Sacrosanctum Concilium, no. 22.

Redemptionis Sacramentum 59. The reprobated practice by which Priests, Deacons or the faithful here and there alter or vary at will the texts of the Sacred Liturgy that they are charged to pronounce, must cease. For in doing thus, they render the celebration of the Sacred Liturgy unstable, and not infrequently distort the authentic meaning of the Liturgy.

Also, at the end of mass, before he closes mass and dismisses us, he asks for new people to introduce themselves and then applauds those who are visiting etc. And also asks for birthdays and if so, we all sing happy birthday to them Same with anniversaries, and more applause.

c.f. above quotes

The Roman Missal states: “140. If they are necessary, any brief announcements to the people follow here.” No mention of introductions and singing happy birthday. This is an unapproved adition to the liturgical books.

Now I was taught not to applaud in church, ever. (raised UCC, not RC) So I choose to not applaud. Am I wrong or right in that? And I was never taught to sing happy birthday in church, with the one exception being during a children’s Christmas play when they sang happy birthday to Jesus, but that was not during mass, but in the church.

Pope Benedict XVI as Cardinal Ratzinger stated: “Whenever applause breaks out in the liturgy because of some human achievement, it is a sure sign that the essence of liturgy has totally disappeared and been replaced by a kind of religious entertainment.”

No some may say the Roman Missal does not say we can’t do certain things, but that is not a get out of jail free card. For example, the Missal does not say we can’t break dance or ride a motorbike into the church. The books must be faithfully followed - pray the black and do the red, with no addition or omission.

 

[Canto]

Some may say that if the Missal doesn’t say we can’t do something than it’s okay to do it. This could then lead to break-dancing and all sorts of novelties foreign to the Mass. Such a notion is condemned in the Code of Canon Law which states…

Canon 846 §1 The liturgical books, approved by the competent authority, are to be faithfully followed in the celebration of the sacraments. Accordingly, **no one may **on a personal initiative add to or omit or alter anything in those books.

 

[JRKH]

When the priest raises the Body of Christ and then again when he raises the blood of Christ, in our parish we say “My Lord and my God” and then we all sing ‘Jesus you are so lovely’ (all the way through the song each time. I would like to know if this is something that’s approved.

I cannot be sure, but this sure sounds like an abuse to me (assuming you are in the U.S.A.) The GIRM does not allow for such interjection of singing, and neither is it contained in the Roman Missal. Edit - I see others have addressed the abuse issue.

Also, at the end of mass, before he closes mass and dismisses us, he asks for new people to introduce themselves and then applauds those who are visiting etc. And also asks for birthdays and if so, we all sing happy birthday to them Same with anniversaries, and more applause.

This is a bit unusual but I would not really class it as abuse, even though technically it could be. The GIRM, makes provision for, “Brief announcements, if they are necessary.” So the question would have to be are these things “necessary”.

Now I was taught not to applaud in church, ever. (raised UCC, not RC) So I choose to not applaud. Am I wrong or right in that? And I was never taught to sing happy birthday in church, with the one exception being during a children’s Christmas play when they sang happy birthday to Jesus, but that was not during mass, but in the church.

Applauding in Church is not a problem nor, in my opinion, is the asking about new people, birthdays, and anniversaries…a bit time consuming and unnecessary to the degree practiced, but not a real problem. The abuse during consecration however would be of grave concern to me and I would seek another parish where they do not do this.

What say you folks who are so much more knowledgeable than I am to my questions?

I hope my answers are of some help.

I moved here and came back to church after an unfortunate absence of quite a few years while taking care of my parents with no respite care for them so I could get to mass. (I am an RCIA kind of catholic, 1987)

Thanks so much for your help.

I am currently in the same situation of care of a Loved on with little/no respite.
God bless you for your loving care and sacrifice.

Peace
James

 

[gh4]

I thank everyone for their kind answers.
If I could, I would probably go to Latin Mass, unfortunately I live 30-40 miles from any other church, so switching churches is probably not an option, though I will be visiting some different churches soon. A Latin Mass church is probably 125 miles away, too far to attend routinely.
And, btw, I really like this priest, he’s a good and kind man. I’m just not thrilled with the things I mentioned.
Again, thanks.

 

[gh4]

The question you have to ask yourself is what type of Catholic Mass are you trying to attend. If its a Catholic Church its a Catholic Mass.

Now with that said there is the Pre-Vatican II Latin Mass and then everything else. Theres a Thread with a Video which exlpains all this. Check it out and decide for yourself where you want to be.

Can you point me to that video please?
Thank you.

 

[choy]

is this in the Philippines?
because i know there was a direction to respond “My Lord and My God” during Consecration when the priest raises the Precious Body, and then the Cup

there is a provision in RS which states the following:

[53.] While the Priest proclaims the Eucharistic Prayer “there should be no other prayers or singing, and the organ or other musical instruments should be silent”,[132] except for the people’s acclamations that have been duly approved, as described below.

so acclaiming “My Lord and My God” is entirely valid and allowed if…

[54]…and in other acclamations approved by the Conference of Bishops with the recognitio of the Holy See”.

but the singing is not allowed

 

[Petergee]

The abuse during consecration however would be of grave concern to me and I would seek another parish where they do not do this.

Not an option I’m afraid.

Redemptionis Sacramentum:
“183. In an altogether particular manner, let everyone do all that is in their power to ensure that the Most Holy Sacrament of the Eucharist will be protected from any and every irreverence or distortion and that all abuses be thoroughly corrected. This is a most serious duty incumbent upon each and every one, and all are bound to carry it out without any favoritism.”

 

[JRKH]

Not an option I’m afraid.

Redemptionis Sacramentum:
"183. In an altogether particular manner, let everyone do all that is in their power to ensure that the Most Holy Sacrament of the Eucharist will be protected from any and every irreverence or distortion and that all abuses be thoroughly corrected. This is a most serious duty incumbent upon each and every one, and all are bound to carry it out without any favoritism."

Thanks for the correction.
In this case then, the OP needs to contact the Bishop and be guided by him.

Peace
James

 

[SimonDodd]

In this case then, the OP needs to contact the Bishop and be guided by him.

Or the parish priest(s), in the first instance. It’s not clear from posts 1 and 8 that the OP has talked to his pastor about this. It would be discourteous to bypass him, and most likely counterproductive: the bishop’s first question is likely to be “what did Fr. X say when you asked him about this?”

A polite, humble, and charitable email to the parish’s pastor is the place to start. And, you know, the odds are that you’re going to have to write to the bishop afterward—people aren’t in the habit of thinking they’re doing anything wrong—but that doesn’t allow you to skip the basic steps of process and courtesy.

 

[OraLabora]

I whisper “Mon Seigneur et mon Dieu” at the elevation during the consecration. You would have to be kneeling very close to me to hear me.

 

[gh4]

This parish is in the US.
We are going to approach our priest with this, I have a couple of friends who are just as concerned about this as I am. I am praying that he doesn’t become too upset and make things hard for those of us who are concerned.

 

[JRKH]

This parish is in the US.
We are going to approach our priest with this, I have a couple of friends who are just as concerned about this as I am. I am praying that he doesn’t become too upset and make things hard for those of us who are concerned.

Prayers for you, and for your priest.

Peace
James

 

[Petergee]

This parish is in the US.
We are going to approach our priest with this, I have a couple of friends who are just as concerned about this as I am. I am praying that he doesn’t become too upset and make things hard for those of us who are concerned.

I’ll pray for you all, and please let us know how it goes.

Remember, charity above all, and give our brother in Christ the benefit of the doubt at all times. eg. don’t assume, until shown otherwise, that someone is deliberately defying the Church’s rules when it would be more charitable to assume that he is doing it inadvertently or is unaware of the rules, or maybe has some sort of dispensation from them.

 

[gh4]

Well, I am not surprised by what Father had to say.
He tried to explain to us how the GIRM is not really a law as we know laws, but a guideline for priests to follow.
He also said that without what he does that Mass would be too boring and bland. (huh???)
And if we didn’t want to take his word for this, we needed to go and talk to the Bishop.

Soooo, that’s what we are going to do.
I’ve never spoken to a Bishop before. Do we call and make an appointment? It’s a very long drive and will take an entire day to do this.
I’m guessing it will be a while before we get to talk to him.

And on a side note, several of us got together this past Sunday and went visiting another church and it sure was refreshing to have a Mass that didn’t have the issues that our Mass has. We’ve decided to do this once or twice a month, it was a great experience.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Well, I am not surprised by what Father had to say.
He tried to explain to us how the GIRM is not really a law as we know laws, but a guideline for priests to follow.
He also said that without what he does that Mass would be too boring and bland. (huh???)

A mass can be “less boring” if more priests work on their homilies.

And if we didn’t want to take his word for this, we needed to go and talk to the Bishop.

Not a bad proposition. Take him up on it

Soooo, that’s what we are going to do.
I’ve never spoken to a Bishop before. Do we call and make an appointment? It’s a very long drive and will take an entire day to do this.
I’m guessing it will be a while before we get to talk to him.

A letter would suffice for now. Come up with a really nice and formal letter to the Bishop. Yes, it may take a while but be patient.

And on a side note, several of us got together this past Sunday and went visiting another church and it sure was refreshing to have a Mass that didn’t have the issues that our Mass has. We’ve decided to do this once or twice a month, it was a great experience.

Good for you. But don’t abandon your own parish, for the good of everyone there and the entire Church. Keep steadfast, do what you can and keep praying. God will not abandon you.